Very first all grain

[markpace]

How do I calculate efficiency? If understand correctly -
Use a brew calculator to determine Grain potential.
Then after mashing, and before boiling I take a hydrometer reading.

My reading divided by grain potential = efficiency?

 

[nzeman20]

http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

This is what I use. Plug in the grain and amount you use for your recipe and note your OG and how many gallons you collected. Then press calculate.

 

[eko]

John Palmer's How to Brew is a good source for all sorts of information. Here's a link to the section on efficiency:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-5.html

 

[Marshall2]

Hey gents,

I just tried my first all grain as well. My issue is it had barely any gravity.... (approx 1.010).

I used 1lb 2-Row, 1lb extra pale, & 0.75lb caramel 120 in 2.5 Gallons water. Temp was exactly 155 for 60 mins, followed by 75 min boil

Am I missing something?

 

[kh54s10]

Hey gents,

I just tried my first all grain as well. My issue is it had barely any gravity.... (approx 1.010).

I used 1lb 2-Row, 1lb extra pale, & 0.75lb caramel 120 in 2.5 Gallons water. Temp was exactly 155 for 60 mins, followed by 75 min boil

Am I missing something?

I am assuming 1 gallon after the mash and boil. I don't know what extra pale is so I put 2 lbs 2 row into the calculator.

The calculator says OG = 1.074 with 75% efficiency.

The 1.010 you are referring to is the OG (before fermentation) right?, and not the final gravity.
If it is the OG, either you used grains that were not crushed or you read the hydrometer wrong.

 

[markpace]

I made a mush tun from a 5 gallon cooler. I've finished my mash time. I go to drain my first runnings and it only comes out a trickle, less than a trickle, like a few drops. Is it supposed to come EXTREMELY slow?

I should note that I used a false bottom and not the stainless hose.

 

[markpace]

This is not fun. I tried a bunch of recommendations on google for a stuck sparge. Stll only a trickle. It's going to be hours to get my wort out.

 

[plankbr]

This is not fun. I tried a bunch of recommendations on google for a stuck sparge. Stll only a trickle. It's going to be hours to get my wort out.

Go to the brew store now and get 1/2 pound of rice hulls. Mix them and and drain with ease...

 

[markpace]

Thanks. I will get some for next time. I ended up dippingd the rest out an running through a fine strainer. OG was supposed to be 1060, I hit 1051. So not horrible, but I need to work on it. My mash lost a little more temp than I had hoped so that also probably hurt my OG. Will see what OG is after the boil.

 

[markpace]

I have to say what little that was coming out of the spigot was prefectly clear, but I didn't have 2 or 3 hours to wait for it to finish draining.

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks. I will get some for next time. I ended up dippingd the rest out an running through a fine strainer. OG was supposed to be 1060, I hit 1051. So not horrible, but I need to work on it. My mash lost a little more temp than I had hoped so that also probably hurt my OG. Will see what OG is after the boil.

Sounds like your 1.051 SG was preboil. If so that is NOT your OG, as OG is always post boil. You may hit your target OG yet.

Brew on

 

[Yesfan]

^^^ Agree. If your pre-boil volume is at 6 gallons, then you hit your SG spot on.

5 gallon batch, OG= 1.060
1.060 OG = 60 gravity points per gallon
60 times 5 = 300 total gravity points
300/6 gallons of pre-boil wort= 50 gravity points
50 gravity points = 1.050
1.050= Starting Gravity or SG



Brew on!

 

[markpace]

This was 1 gallon. After boil - OG 1.065 Sweet! It's in the primary in controlled 65 F.

 

[Yesfan]

This was 1 gallon. After boil - OG 1.065 Sweet! It's in the primary in controlled 65 F.

OK, so either way, it sounds like you overshot the gravity a bit, but I don't think it will hurt much. Frankly I would rather be 4-5 points over OG than under.

 

[theseeker4]

Hey gents,

I just tried my first all grain as well. My issue is it had barely any gravity.... (approx 1.010).

I used 1lb 2-Row, 1lb extra pale, & 0.75lb caramel 120 in 2.5 Gallons water. Temp was exactly 155 for 60 mins, followed by 75 min boil

Am I missing something?

Sounds like a ton more water than you need. You have almost 1 gallon per pound of grain, standard is around 1.25 QUARTS per pound of grain....

 

[markpace]

So now I've opened the first of this beer today. It's really good and I'm very happy with the results!

To hopefully solve my stuck sparge I replaced the tube in the false bottom mash tun with the high temp PP hose. Now it works a little better, but it still runs slowly, but it is running. Approximately how long should it take to drain 2 gallons of wort from a 5 gallon mash tun with a false bottom? Maybe I'm just being impatient.

 

[Hillsbrew79]

IME, you want a slow flow to improve efficiency. I use a rectangular cooler with stainless steel braid, which flows like crazy if I let it. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 quart per minute is what I typically do. This would result in 8-10 minutes to drain 2 galions. Does your system take longer?

 

[Hillsbrew79]

@ Marshall2 That is insanely low gravity. I'm assuming you mashed the grains in the entire 2.5 gallons of water and didn't sparge. A mash that thin would prevent much enzyme conversion from happening. Next time, I'd mash with about 3.5 or 3.75 quarts of water, strain it, then sparge with enough water to bring you up to your starting volume. To get 2.5 gallons of wort after boiling, you'd need somewhere between 3 and 3.5 gallons in your kettle. Seeing that grain absorbs a good deal of water, you might only get about 1.5 quarts of wort on your initial drain. If you sparge with roughly 3 gallons of water, you'd be right about where you want to be.

 

[markpace]

Thanks for that info. After 2 hours I had drained about 3/4 of a gallon. I then dipped out with a cup and ran through 2 strainers. A course mesh to catch the big stuff and then a finer mesh. I poured each cup through the accumulated grains in the strainer.

I was using about 1 gallon for the initial mask. I was going to drain that off and then add another gallon of sparge water for about 10 mins. It was running so slow I thought that if I added the next gallon of water it might warm the water up and make it flow better. No such luck.

I think I'm going to get a stainless steel braid to replace this false bottom. 2 tries, 2 failures.

 

[doug293cz]

IME, you want a slow flow to improve efficiency. I use a rectangular cooler with stainless steel braid, which flows like crazy if I let it. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 quart per minute is what I typically do. This would result in 8-10 minutes to drain 2 galions. Does your system take longer?

Slow run off is only a benefit if fly sparging. OP didn't say, but it sounded more like he is either batch or no-sparging. If all of the available starch has been converted, and the sugar level throughout the grain and wort has equilibrated, then running off slowly will not create any more sugar.

If slow run off improves your efficiency when batch (or no) sparging, then your mash conversion was incomplete, or the mash was insufficiently stirred to equilibrate the wort held in the grain particles vs the free wort.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

@ Marshall2 That is insanely low gravity. I'm assuming you mashed the grains in the entire 2.5 gallons of water and didn't sparge. A mash that thin would prevent much enzyme conversion from happening. Next time, I'd mash with about 3.5 or 3.75 quarts of water, strain it, then sparge with enough water to bring you up to your starting volume. To get 2.5 gallons of wort after boiling, you'd need somewhere between 3 and 3.5 gallons in your kettle. Seeing that grain absorbs a good deal of water, you might only get about 1.5 quarts of wort on your initial drain. If you sparge with roughly 3 gallons of water, you'd be right about where you want to be.

This is FALSE. A thin mash does not reduce enzyme efficiency. The belief that it does is based on a theoretical analysis that only looked at one of the many variables that controls conversion rates in real mashes (ref.) Full volume mashers (BIABers and others) have mountains of experience that shows thin mashes can be extremely efficient.

Brew on

 

[Hillsbrew79]

This is FALSE. A thin mash does not reduce enzyme efficiency. The belief that is does is based on a theoretical analysis that only looked at one of the many variables that controls conversion rates in real mashes (ref.) Full volume mashers (BIABers and others) have mountains of experience that shows thin mashes can be extremely efficient.

Brew on

You're probably right. I suppose I took the other school of thought after the result of my first AG brew (ended up with under 50% efficiency with an extremely thin mash). I was told by a fellow brewer that a thin mash was the cause. Looking back on it, I probably didn't dough in properly, and definitely didn't heat my sparge water hot enough, and didn't stir after my sparge addition. Those 3 things would certainly contribute to lower efficiency.

You learn something new everyday....

 

[Hillsbrew79]

Slow run off is only a benefit if fly sparging. OP didn't say, but it sounded more like he is either batch or no-sparging. If all of the available starch has been converted, and the sugar level throughout the grain and wort has equilibrated, then running off slowly will not create any more sugar.

If slow run off improves your efficiency when batch (or no) sparging, then your mash conversion was incomplete, or the mash was insufficiently stirred to equilibrate the wort held in the grain particles vs the free wort.

Brew on

Once again, you have totally schooled me!

Looks like I'm going to need to experiment with this myself - after all, no one wants to wait for their tun to drain any longer than it needs to. It's another example of bad advice I believed to be true, since it helped me in the beginning.

 

[doug293cz]

You're probably right. I suppose I took the other school of thought after the result of my first AG brew (ended up with under 50% efficiency with an extremely thin mash). I was told by a fellow brewer that a thin mash was the cause. Looking back on it, I probably didn't dough in properly, and definitely didn't heat my sparge water hot enough, and didn't stir after my sparge addition. Those 3 things would certainly contribute to lower efficiency.

You learn something new everyday....

It also turns out that sparge water temperature is not important to mash efficiency, at least for batch sparging. Another reference to work by Kai.

Your other possible causes are probable culprits. At dough in you want to make sure that there are no dough balls (unwetted clumps of grain.) The dry interior of a dough ball is grain that is not available to the mash, it's just wasting space and $. Stirring is critical at dough in, immediately prior to run off, and after adding sparge water. Additional stirring at intervals (every 15 - 20 minutes) during the mash can also be beneficial.

Other possibilities are (in approximate order of importance):

1. Mash time too short for the coarseness of the grain crush. This is a very common cause of low efficiency. Larger grain particles take longer to convert completely due to longer times needed for required diffusion to occur. You want to grind as fine as you can while avoiding stuck run offs. Stuck run offs are not an issue with BIAB, so extremely fine crushes can be used, resulting in shorter mash times.
2. Mash time too short for complete conversion at chosen mash temperature. Starch converts faster at higher temps, so lower temp mashes (<150°F or so) need more time to complete.
3. Inaccurate thermometer. If your mash temp is off by more than a few degrees, efficiency can suffer.
4. Your mash pH was either too high (> 5.6 or so) or too low (< 5.2 or so). The limits aren't hard and fast, but the further outside them you are, the worse your efficiency.

Brew on

 

[markpace]

It also turns out that sparge water temperature is not important to mash efficiency, at least for batch sparging. Another reference to work by Kai.

Your other possible causes are probable culprits. At dough in you want to make sure that there are no dough balls (unwetted clumps of grain.) The dry interior of a dough ball is grain that is not available to the mash, it's just wasting space and $. Stirring is critical at dough in, immediately prior to run off, and after adding sparge water. Additional stirring at intervals (every 15 - 20 minutes) during the mash can also be beneficial.

Other possibilities are (in approximate order of importance):

1. Mash time too short for the coarseness of the grain crush. This is a very common cause of low efficiency. Larger grain particles take longer to convert completely due to longer times needed for required diffusion to occur. You want to grind as fine as you can while avoiding stuck run offs. Stuck run offs are not an issue with BIAB, so extremely fine crushes can be used, resulting in shorter mash times.
2. Mash time too short for complete conversion at chosen mash temperature. Starch converts faster at higher temps, so lower temp mashes (<150°F or so) need more time to complete.
3. Inaccurate thermometer. If your mash temp is off by more than a few degrees, efficiency can suffer.
4. Your mash pH was either too high (> 5.6 or so) or too low (< 5.2 or so). The limits aren't hard and fast, but the further outside them you are, the worse your efficiency.

Brew on

Thank you. I know that I stirred really well at dough in. But I did not stir one time after that. Something I didn't see or just missed watching youtube videos on mashing. Maybe I'll try this false bottom one more time, with plenty of stirring involved, before I replace it with a mesh screen.