Vendors... Question for the mods.

[TXCrash]

Posting behind the google wall as there might be a better chance of moderator participation rather than deletion.

Can we have a discussion about why vendors whom have been deemed by the homebrewing community to be unscrupulous are allowed to continue posting, and why all comments that are negative are deleted?

Doesn't homebrewtalk, as a forum, owe its members the right to view concerns about a vendor prior to getting fleeced by them?

 

[passedpawn]

If you have a question for a mod, just PM them.

 

[TxBrew]

I am more than happy to acknowledge this.

The Vendor forum is for Vendors posting their deals and specials and nothing else. It is not open to off topic for anyone, and the thread the precipitated this thread has been closed as it was in violation.

We are a brewers community that has a Vendor section. This allows you to get to know the Vendors you are buying from. We have a forum for criticism. Here is a link to that section.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f173/

As long as the criticism is within the rules outlined for forum use it stays regardless of the Vendors standing with us. I have been asked to remove criticism in that section in the past to gain a Vendor. I will not. Mistakes happen and I acknowledge that, but I feel as consumer we ought to know about that.

When do we stop allowing a Vendor to post? I will discontinue a Vendor subscription for several reasons, e.g. if they are scamming the community and like with community members, if they repeatedly break the rules.

I also contact based on inactivity as I want Vendors to be community members as well.

Where do our loyalties lie? With the community. I have a flagged post option, please use it if you feel someone is being unscrupulous in their dealings with you.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

As long as the criticism is within the rules outlined for forum use it stays regardless of the Vendors standing with us. I have been asked to remove criticism in that section in the past to gain a Vendor. I will not.

Now that's not true. You personally may not have ever removed threads of criticism of particular vendors but other mods certainly have. One particular vendor has had the benefit of having quite a bit of criticism removed by the mods.

I get it. It's your business model. You ask for a good chunk of cash from the vendors and if there's too much criticism they will leave. So whether it is explicit policy or an implicit result of your business model, there is some censorship of criticism.

 

[TxBrew]

Now that's not true. You personally may not have ever removed threads of criticism of particular vendors but other mods certainly have. One particular vendor has had the benefit of having quite a bit of criticism removed by the mods.

I get it. It's your business model. You ask for a good chunk of cash from the vendors and if there's too much criticism they will leave. So whether it is explicit policy or an implicit result of your business model, there is some censorship of criticism.

Please show me the threads, I'm not claiming omniscience here. If it is trash talk or OT in the Vendor thread it has been removed. Please show me otherwise and I will reinstate it. The rules are clearly stated in the sticky in the Vendor forum. That is why we have a Company Review forum, for criticism, it's not that hard to grasp. We aren't censoring threads, we are removing rule violations, we give you a place to complain about companies. If you cannot grasp that and instead think of it as censorship then explaining more is a lost cause.

If they receive 100% criticism how does it benefit me that they remain? I'm open to pissing off the entire community just to keep a single Vendor? That makes no sense.

 

[Ace_Club]

Now that's not true. You personally may not have ever removed threads of criticism of particular vendors but other mods certainly have. One particular vendor has had the benefit of having quite a bit of criticism removed by the mods.

I get it. It's your business model. You ask for a good chunk of cash from the vendors and if there's too much criticism they will leave. So whether it is explicit policy or an implicit result of your business model, there is some censorship of criticism.

I have to agree with TxBrew. All the examples I can think of regarding that particular company happened in the Vendor Section. The recent criticism (fair and unfair, both) that has been happening in the Company Review section has been kept up.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Please show me the threads, I'm not claiming omniscience here. If it is trash talk or OT in the Vendor thread it has been removed. Please show me otherwise and I will reinstate it. The rules are clearly stated in the sticky in the Vendor forum. That is why we have a Company Review forum, for criticism, it's not that hard to grasp. We aren't censoring threads, we are removing rule violations, we give you a place to complain about companies. If you cannot grasp that and instead think of it as censorship then explaining more is a lost cause.

If they receive 100% criticism how does it benefit me that they remain? I'm open to pissing off the entire community just to keep a single Vendor? That makes no sense.

Some of the threads were deleted, so I don't know how to show you those. I recall specifically though that the very long AHS thread about the credit card issue was subject to several deleted posts by one or two of the mods. It wasn't OT getting removed -- that stayed -- it was the criticism getting scrubbed.

That thread, if I remember correctly, was posted in this subforum. It wasn't moved. Similarly, there are plenty of positive threads thrown across several subforums for various vendors and stores. Those threads aren't scrubbed of posts, deleted, or moved to the review subforum.

My comments weren't related to threads in the vendor area. I agree that the vendors pay to advertise in that area and anything that isn't a vendor advertisement should be moved/deleted. I guess I wasn't clear before that I was speaking more generally, while you may have been speaking specifically of the vendor subforum.

 

[TxBrew]

Some of the threads were deleted, so I don't know how to show you those. I recall specifically though that the very long AHS thread about the credit card issue was subject to several deleted posts by one or two of the mods. It wasn't OT getting removed -- that stayed -- it was the criticism getting scrubbed.

That thread, if I remember correctly, was posted in this subforum. It wasn't moved. Similarly, there are plenty of positive threads thrown across several subforums for various vendors and stores. Those threads aren't scrubbed of posts, deleted, or moved to the review subforum.

My comments weren't related to threads in the vendor area. I agree that the vendors pay to advertise in that area and anything that isn't a vendor advertisement should be moved/deleted. I guess I wasn't clear before that I was speaking more generally, while you may have been speaking specifically of the vendor subforum.

The majority of the AHS thread was arguing among members and probably the main reason you saw threads "deleted" was because I merged them together to keep the issue in one thread, or deleted threads based on rules 5 and 6.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_rules_regulations

Also, if you will remember, that thread degenerated into name calling between the people posting, and it had naught to do with AHS, or HBT, only people participating in the thread. In fact if anything we worked on keeping the thread a resource to our users and to Austin Home Brew Supply as the issue was resolving.

Positive threads breaking the rules?

The little caution box under the user name in the threads is used to report posts to moderators, we can't be everywhere, so if you would like to help by reporting it than I and the other mods can move it to the correct section.

 

[TxBrew]

That wouldn't work as those are the Vendors threads they have created.

I find it easiest just to enforce the rules, I do allow criticism, just not there, with that understanding many people should be headed over to the Company Review section.

Maybe I need to find a way to make the rules more visible as they are being overlooked?