Variable Voltage Controller Tea Urn

[Dusan Kovacevic]

Hi everyone
A few days ago I ordered this cheapo tea urn form Amazon( https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00IECC0LS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) for my small BIAB batches. It's 20L/5gal, 2400w concealed element and I'm planing to do 6l/1.5gal batches.

Now I've done my homework (I guess) and I understand that I will have to override dry boil protection to allow urn to reach and maintain a good boil.
I also understand that by solving dry boil protection problem I'm creating two new problems:
1. I will probably have wild boils
2. Heating element will work on high temperatures for prolonged periods of time, which is really not made for and why it had overheating protection in the first place - eventually the element will blow/melt

After researching the matter for a few days (I'm not very busy at work) my only solution is to add variable voltage controller/regulator. That way I could run the urn as I normally would until it reaches a good boil and then turn the power down (lets say to 30%) to allow it to just maintain that boil, solving the first problem, and hopefully when turning the element power down it wouldn't run as hot as it would on full power thus solving my second problem as well.

At this point it is very important to disclose that I don't have the first damn clue about anything electrical.

So my questions are:

1. Can someone either confirm that my solution is correct or explain to me why it isn't and help me find another solution?
2. However, if my solution is correct can I use this to control the power? https://www.ebay.ie/itm/220V-4000W-...630273?hash=item44493ed381:g:kCUAAOSwm4tcoce5

3. If answer to first and second question is "yes" could I add a PID as well? The idea is to plug the urn into the variable voltage controller then plug the controller into, lets say, Inkbird (or something more simple) and then plug the Inkbird into the wall socket?

Apologies for a long post, I will really appreciate any help with this

DK

 

[RM-MN]

I don't know how that controller works but just for information purposes, my kitchen range just uses a thermostatic controller in the knob assembly. The burner is full on or full off, no in between. At the low setting the burner spends more time off than on while the high setting may be fully on all the time. What you may need or want is a pulse width controller that is controlled by a thermostat.

 

[Dusan Kovacevic]

I don't know how that controller works but just for information purposes, my kitchen range just uses a thermostatic controller in the knob assembly. The burner is full on or full off, no in between. At the low setting the burner spends more time off than on while the high setting may be fully on all the time. What you may need or want is a pulse width controller that is controlled by a thermostat.

Thank you very much for the response but I still feel that changing power output would be better then going through on and off cycles with full power every time it's on ( which is how I understand pulse width modulation works). I feel it would be "healthier" for the element in the long run and I would have more precise control and less scorching when mashing. For more or less the same money.
Again, my electrics knowledge is virtually non existent so please let me know if I'm wrong.
I would, also, appreciate if you would explain why do you feel pulse width would be better than voltage controller?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Quoted from the list of questions on Amazon link you provided....

“Q: Does this keep a constant rolling boil? I'm looking for something to brew beer in and would need a good constant boil for 60mins see less

Answer this question
A: Yes, it keeps a constant rolling boil. It is good.”

I would try it out of the box before even thinking about modding it...

Controlling and automating mash temps is more involved than buying a pid, you would also need a pump to recirculate or would stir constantly. Even then the heat density of the element could be too high idk

I would suggest simply heating to strike temp and adding grain, then unplug and insulate the vessel for the mash rest, remove grain and boil....

 

[doug293cz]

Yes, the linked controller should work fine to control boil power. I second Wilser's comments about not bothering with mash temp control on this system - more trouble than it's worth.

Brew on

 

[Dusan Kovacevic]

Quoted from the list of questions on Amazon link you provided....

“Q: Does this keep a constant rolling boil? I'm looking for something to brew beer in and would need a good constant boil for 60mins see less

Answer this question
A: Yes, it keeps a constant rolling boil. It is good.”

I would try it out of the box before even thinking about modding it...

Controlling and automating mash temps is more involved than buying a pid, you would also need a pump to recirculate or would stir constantly. Even then the heat density of the element could be too high idk

I would suggest simply heating to strike temp and adding grain, then unplug and insulate the vessel for the mash rest, remove grain and boil....

Thanks. I saw that and will try, but honestly people in amazon coments say all kinds of crazy stuff and I cant figure out why they do it

 

[Dusan Kovacevic]

Yes, the linked controller should work fine to control boil power. I second Wilser's comments about not bothering with mash temp control on this system - more trouble than it's worth.

Brew on

Thats the answer I was hoping for Thanks mate.
Yeah, i'm not sure if i will add temp control, not yet anyways. But tought I should ask if connecting all those peices together like that would work because I may do it in the future or someone who is reading this wants to do it now.
It was just very weird that nobody even mentioned that variable voltage regulator in any of the threads on here, aussie homebrew forum or biab forum...that makes me think there is something fishy about the idea?

 

[Dusan Kovacevic]

Another question for those in electronics know how.

The device I posted has following ratings:
Peak power:4000W(Load max Power 2000W)
Rated current:9A
Peak current:18A

And heating element in urn is:
2500w
And it's made for 220V outlets so I guess it's 11.36A (???)
So I guess those two devices can't work together after all?
If there's a sparky please let me know, at least quick "yes" or "no"?
Thanks
DK

 

[RM-MN]

Another question for those in electronics know how.

The device I posted has following ratings:
Peak power:4000W(Load max Power 2000W)
Rated current:9A
Peak current:18A

And heating element in urn is:
2500w
And it's made for 220V outlets so I guess it's 11.36A (???)
So I guess those two devices can't work together after all?
If there's a sparky please let me know, at least quick "yes" or "no"?
Thanks
DK

The ratings mean that the device can handle the 4000 watts for a very short period but for a longer time it should be less than 2000 watts. Since your heater is 2500 watts and will be controlled for the duration of the boil I think it needs to be a higher rating. JMHO

 

[Dusan Kovacevic]

The ratings mean that the device can handle the 4000 watts for a very short period but for a longer time it should be less than 2000 watts. Since your heater is 2500 watts and will be controlled for the duration of the boil I think it needs to be a higher rating. JMHO

Thank you very much. I'll hunt for some other device(s) and will probably need help from electrician, hopefully I'll be able to find someone on here because I don't know any.

 

[doug293cz]

Where did you find the information on the 2000W steady state limit? I went back to the linked listing and couldn't find the limitation there.
Brew on

 

[RM-MN]

Where did you find the information on the 2000W steady state limit? I went back to the linked listing and couldn't find the limitation there.
Brew on

I couldn't find it either but watts are roughly volts times amps. 220 volts multiplied by the 18 amps gets you 3960, close enough to the 4000 watts peak. Therefor 220 times 9 gets you approximately 2000 watts.

 

[RM-MN]

Another question for those in electronics know how.

The device I posted has following ratings:
Peak power:4000W(Load max Power 2000W)
Rated current:9A
Peak current:18A

And heating element in urn is:
2500w
And it's made for 220V outlets so I guess it's 11.36A (???)
So I guess those two devices can't work together after all?
If there's a sparky please let me know, at least quick "yes" or "no"?
Thanks
DK

This one is rated for a max of 10000 watts with voltage control from 10V to 220V. It may do what you want although it says it is an SCR control instead of a TRIAC.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-110v-2...362?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0