Using Vodka For Cacao Nibs - How Much Is Enough / Too Much?

[DeToX]

Hey guys, I've been reading about this technique all over the place. Seems the general consensus is to "add enough vodka to cover them"...

My question is this - Does "enough to cover them" mean enough to just keep them wet, or enough to SOAK them?

I have a tick over 8oz of Nibs and a couple 'Nilla Beans in some tupperware w/ about 3/4 cup - 1 cup of Vodka (what I needed to "cover" them just about to the top of the pile).

Is that too much? Just Enough? Anyone noted a direct difference in taste because of the amount of Vodka?

It's for a 5 gal DBL Choc Milk Stout (All Grain)

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
~Cheers

 

[Cyclman]

When I am putting nibs or oak in alcohol, I use a ziplock, put enough alcohol so no air gets in at all. Works awesome.

Reminds me, I wanted to do a Grand Marnier Cocoa Porter. Gotta add that to the list.

Vodka doesn't add much flavor, so 1 cup shouldn't matter, but it'll add to ABV a bit.

 

[day_trippr]

Cover the nibs with spirits, give them a shake to knock out any bubbles, and let the container set for a day. The next day add more spirits to re-cover, as the nibs will absorb quite a bit. I usually keep that going for four to five days before dumping the works into a carboy and racking my stout on top..

btw, for my chocolate stouts I switched to dark rum.
It adds a wonderfully complementary note...

Cheers!

 

[Natdavis777]

My first time, I used 4oz nibs in 3/4cup of vodka. I put this mixture in a mason jar and shoot it a few times a day for about a week. As dat trippr said, they will absorb some liquid, so I got a lite less than 4fl oz of my cocoa tincture when I was all said and done. Added that to my choc milk stout and it's pretty damn tasty. The chocolate is evident.

My second time around, I added 1 cup of vodka (opposed to 3/4 cup) to 4oz nibs with the same process. With better straining, I got 6floz which I split into two 3oz containers that I can use in two different batches when needed


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[DeToX]

Fantastic! Thanks for the input. The nibs did absorb quite a bit as you all mentioned.

It's been sitting for about a week or so and I'm in no rush to add the concoction since I want the stout to mature as needed. From the sounds of it, once the nibs & juice is added it only needs about a week or so to really pick up the flavor, so I want the stout right first.

I guess I have a pretty good extract on my hands then, and sounds like I did it right.

Thanks

 

[khillian]

This...

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way

 

[Natdavis777]

This...

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way

That's what I used as well. Great site. I just upped my volume from 6oz vodka to 8oz


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[DeToX]

Let me run this by you guys...

My Tincture, if you will, has been sitting for a couple weeks waiting on the stout. I went to taste it today (the tincture) and it is awfully bitter. Chocolate taste is strong, but its sharp. Not like cheap vodka sharp, but bitter chocolate sharp.

Is this how it's supposed to be, or am I past the point of adding this to the beer and on my way to next years chocolate extract? I have read posts of guys that added nibs directly to the secondary w/o the vodka soak, then racking in a few days as to avoid the "bitter" that nibs develop.

I worry about the bitterness being added to a fairly bitter stout coming out a bit too strong (I'm not a bitter beer fan).

Nibs are readily available at a local shop so it's not a big deal either way if I need to get a fresh batch.

What do you think? Screw it and toss the tincture in there (nibs and all) and just deal with it, or get another half pound, soak them over night to "clean" them and go that route?

 

[khillian]

DeTox,

From my link,

The problem is the bitter nature - cacao (and chocolate) contains tannin and other alkaloids that simultaneously are good for you and terrible tasting. Hence the sugar in prepared chocolate. If you soak cacao nibs as a secondary addition, you have to be Johnny on the Spot to avoid extract too many of these alkaloids. Too many and your beer is harsh. (I've done this before and rescued it with a 750ml bottle of cheap Raspberry liqueur - the beer was actually really awesome with that addition). The magic point seems to be about 2 weeks.

--
I have done 2 weeks in the beer directly, with decent results, but I think Drews tincture sounds like a better idea and it only takes 4 days, and you can eye drop into a similar commercial beer (or a flat hydrometer sample) to multiply up the dose.

 

[DeToX]

I'll go grab another half pound, soak them over night and add them in and do it that way. I will follow the process with the mix I have now and strain, put in the freezer, scrape the gunk off and store. Then I can use it next year.

Thanks for the follow up response.

Cheers

 

[professorxxl]

Does soaking them for too long make a difference? I've had them soaking for 5 days now. Looking to use them today, but with a little less vodka (I think I put too much in).

Also, do you have to go the freezing method and scrape out the fat or can I just rack over everything?

Thanks!

 

[Natdavis777]

Does soaking them for too long make a difference? I've had them soaking for 5 days now. Looking to use them today, but with a little less vodka (I think I put too much in).

Also, do you have to go the freezing method and scrape out the fat or can I just rack over everything?

Thanks!

I tried freezing my solution and scraping off the fat, but it didn't really go well. It was more of congealed/slushy pellets. So I just let it warm back up and pitched the solution as is. Beer turned out great


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[professorxxl]

So I just let it warm back up and pitched the solution as is.

Did you leave the nibs in as well or just the vodka extract?

 

[Natdavis777]

Just the extract


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[DeToX]

Sounds like I may be a bit too late to respond, but here's what I did with mine since my original post -

My original Tincture (1.5 whole vanilla beans, 8 oz of fresh nibs & 8 oz+ of vodka) was too bitter tasting for my liking. It seems that the long soak started to extract the alkolines (sp?) that were discussed in the link provided on page 1. I let it all meld in some tupperware for about 10-14 days, and it was just not what I was looking for. More bitter chocolate, then soft chocolate, if that makes sense.

So, What I did is grab another 1/2 of fresh nibs, soaked them over night in 4 oz vodka & 4 oz of Makers Mark (I had it on hand & I drank too much of the Vodka the night before), then tossed the whole bit into the Secondary the next morning. I honestly don't think the choice of liquor will really make that big of a difference in that small of an amount.

It has been 2 days and a few hours now since I added the NEW tincture, and it is coming along very nicely. The chocolate is starting to come through on the nose. It is starting to soften the beer out. What I mean by that is it is taking some of the hop bitter and toning it down, and the chocolate flavor is forming on the back end. It still needs a few days, but this is definitely the way to go when adding Cacao nibs. Short soak in liquor to sanitize (and up ABV an notch) and add it all in after a day or so. Keep checking every couple days until you get the desired profile, and go from there.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[DeToX]

Update for What It's Worth:

I poured my overnight tincture (nibs and all) into my secondary Sunday. Today is Thursday (4.5-5 days total) and the beer just started picking up those bitter alkolines(sp?). So, I racked over to another carboy to get them off the nibs.

Seems that 4-5 day soaks, either in your beer or while making a tincture, is the sweet spot to pick up a good chocolate taste/aroma without starting to infuse all the bitter alkoline(sp?) that develop.

Cheers

 

[grrickar]

I read you can do the same for coffee. I have a java stout to brew - is 4-5 days in a glass jar with some vodka reasonable or do coffee beans take more/less time.

I heard the best way to get the taste is doing the vodka extract or cold brew them to keep the bitterness down?

 

[Natdavis777]

I read you can do the same for coffee. I have a java stout to brew - is 4-5 days in a glass jar with some vodka reasonable or do coffee beans take more/less time.



I heard the best way to get the taste is doing the vodka extract or cold brew them to keep the bitterness down?

I've personally had the best experience for coffee by "dry hopping" with course my crushed beans for a few days. I've never gotten any bitterness from it.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Dragon]

Probably a silly question, but I'm making a tincture using the instructions on the site linked above (the "Drew Way"). He mentioned toasted cocoa nibs so, not knowing if mine were or not, I toasted them until they smelled nice and then dumped them and then the vodka on top in a mason jar. Will it matter that I forgot that they were still hot when I did that? Will the vodka produce weird flavors or oxidize or who knows what because they were hot or does it make no difference? I'm not terribly worried, but it would be a silly thing to mess up a batch of beer over. I'll try to go by taste on day 4, but not sure if I'll be able to tell from unsweetened, plain cocoa nib extract.

 

[day_trippr]

I wouldn't lose a wink over this.
If anything, you may have increased the cocoa extract, which is A Good Thing.

fwiw, I suspect that unless a package is plainly labelled "Raw" that nibs have been roasted already.
Could be wrong, but all the packages I've bought over the years clearly contained roasted/processed nibs...

Cheers!

[edit/ps] There is no sugar added to nibs, they are exactly what comes out of the bean, with a bit of physical processing.
Cocoa by nature is quite bitter, so don't be looking for Hershey bars in the extract...

 

[Dragon]

Thanks for the response! Lot's of good info. I'll feel more comfortable when I toss in the extract this weekend!

 

[Cape Brewing]

Instead of using spirits... simply "pasteurize" them. Put them on a clean cookie sheet and roast them at 200 for an hour. The temp really won't be hot enough to roast them any more and they'll get up over 175 long enough to kill off any significany bacteria etc.

 

[PJM]

How have you guys been straining the nibs out of the vodka?

 

[khillian]

I covered a red solo cup with foil and depressed the foil into the opening a bit, poked many tiny holes with a pin in the foil, then just slowly pour the nibs/liquid on top of the solo cup covered foil. Once its all done just peel the foil up and throw it away and now you have a clean plastic cup full of the strained liquid.

 

[Natdavis777]

I soak mine in a mason jar. When I am ready to strain out the nibs, I sanitize a section of panty hose and cover the head of the mason jar. Works really well. My first attempt at straining, I used a coffee filter. That method didnt work as so well for me

 

[PJM]

Cool. Thanks guys

 

[lolznrofls]

I just did this and it came out wonderfull. .I put the nibs in a solo cup with just enough vodka to cover them then covered the cup with foil..then I dumped it vodka and all into the secondary and racked on top of it.

 

[day_trippr]

Instead of using spirits... simply "pasteurize" them. Put them on a clean cookie sheet and roast them at 200 for an hour. The temp really won't be hot enough to roast them any more and they'll get up over 175 long enough to kill off any significany bacteria etc.

It's not about killing anything really, it's all about the extract.

You'd think a pro brewer would have known that...

Cheers!

 

[lolznrofls]

It's not about killing anything really, it's all about the extract.

You'd think a pro brewer would have known that...

Cheers!

Tincture. ..yeah..thats it..what he said.. cheers!😃

 

[Cape Brewing]

It's not about killing anything really, it's all about the extract.



You'd think a pro brewer would have known that...



Cheers!

Right... But when you add the nibs to the stout and "dry nib" it... You'll "extract" the flavors you're looking for. Only without the vodka.

And it is about killing things... You use the vodka's abv (or heat as I am suggesting) to sterilize the nibs or else you're looking at a much higher risk of infection.

Using vodka is much more about sterilization than it is creating an extract... and if you are thinking about it the other way around... you're doing it wrong.

Man... It's like brewin' with my sister's kids 'round here.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew because it impresses people