Using electric to maintain mash temp? Anyone doing this?

[Ranger9913]

I have a single tier brewstand built for three keggels. The outer two kegs are gas fired with jet burners. I recently built a flash boiler with great success and now I have my strike water in my mash-tun in about 15mins or less. So now I'm want to regulate the temp of my mash using an electric heating element. I plan on adding a PID and SSR to the equation but I'm trying to decide if I should just go ahead and get the 240v 55000watt element for the "what if" moments that might come about, or should I keep it real simple and use a 120v 1500-2000watt element to maintain my mash and sparge temps? I know the latter will not boil 5 gallons and would probably take forever to reach 170* from tap water temps but it should be able to maintain an already established temp shouldn't it?

 

[freddyb]

Yep, lots of folks are doing this. Here's my solution:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/35-rims-heater-133208/

 

[oldschool]

I'm faced with all these decisions myself. I think if you put a heating element directly in you MLT that your grain would end up scorching. The rims deal is probably safer in that aspect. I just really hate the idea of circulating my wort. It's just not the way the pros. do it.

 

[MrShake]

what is your reason for not wanting to recirculate? I know a lot of the guys who do it here love the result!

 

[cruelkix]

I'm faced with all these decisions myself. I think if you put a heating element directly in you MLT that your grain would end up scorching. The rims deal is probably safer in that aspect. I just really hate the idea of circulating my wort. It's just not the way the pros. do it.

The pro's are probably using a steam jacketed kettle right? Let's just say, I deal with these systems ALOT as it is part of my job. They are pricey pricey. It would be awesome to have one and the steam to use it, but they have their own set of problems too. Steam can scorch your wort as well, as surface temperatures to raise all that liquid to temp can get very hot. The pro's dont always do things the best way despite what you may think. Very little research goes into production methods in large companies. Usually money is spent on capacity, and there is always a "that's the way it has always been" approach to buying new equipment. The pro very rarely do it the best way. they do it the way they know it will work becuase shelling out a bunch of money on an innovative solution doesnt fit into their budget if it fails (I've tried, succeded a few, failed a few, the fails are ugly believe me).

I guess what I am trying to say is, there is ALWAYS a better way out there! Find it!

 

[Bobby_M]

The idea I've been kicking around, if the goal is to avoid physically moving the wort, is to wrap the tun in some kind of low-wattage heat cable. The "normal" use for this stuff is under-tile heating mats, electric blankets, heating pads, roof and gutter ice melt, and pipe warming. The downside is that it's freakin expensive. It's usually rated at about 6 watts per foot so you'd need say 50 feet of it to simple hold temps with a good insulation layer wrapped around.

 

[Ranger9913]

I would be using a low density element and shouldn't have to worry about scorching the wort. Also, it seems the only elements that come in low density are 240v. I can still run a 240v on a 120v right? It would just halve the output wattage right?

Forgive my electrical noobness

 

[cruelkix]

I would be using a low density element and shouldn't have to worry about scorching the wort. Also, it seems the only elements that come in low density are 240v. I can still run a 240v on a 120v right? It would just halve the output wattage right?

Forgive my electrical noobness

It 1/4's the output. From what I've read.

 

[freddyb]

It 1/4's the output. From what I've read.

Yep, because power(watts) = voltage^2 / resistance(ohms) and your heating element is basically a resistor with a constant value.

 

[Ranger9913]

Okay so a 5500w would leave me running 1375 watts which should be fine for maintaining mash temp.

 

[cruelkix]

The idea I've been kicking around, if the goal is to avoid physically moving the wort, is to wrap the tun in some kind of low-wattage heat cable. The "normal" use for this stuff is under-tile heating mats, electric blankets, heating pads, roof and gutter ice melt, and pipe warming. The downside is that it's freakin expensive. It's usually rated at about 6 watts per foot so you'd need say 50 feet of it to simple hold temps with a good insulation layer wrapped around.

I thought about doing that as well. Just make sure it is water tight! that would be quite the nightmare. I'm also not sure what kind of heat exchange material you would need for that as well. You need to get the entire heating coil into something that has a good heat exchange coefficient so all of the 6 watts per foot gets to your kettle. Theres a good chance it will only see like 3... even with a good heat transfer medium. (100')

 

[oldschool]

I like the HERMS in "reverse" idea, if i can make it work. simply just get vessel of liquid at say 156 degrees and circulate it through a copper coil submerged in your cooler. Why won't that work? Some people say that you will have to stir your mash but if it's already at that temperature i don't think much stirring would be needed. Maybe just a few times per hour. I said that i didn't want to recirc. my wort because i've read a blog from C. Papazian where he talks about stirring and extracting more lipids. I think recirculating will yeild the same results as constantly stirring the wort in terms of extracting lipids, which will in turn produce more esters. Not saying i don't want estery beer, i just don't want them all the time.

 

[MrShake]

I'm not sure that stirring and recirculating are going to produce the same results. There is physical movement of the grain with stiring. That would product friction and a breakdown of the particles. Recirculating won't cause that same problem. Weither or not thats the cause of the extra lipids, I don't know.