Using Bru'n Water to determine how to modify home water - help?

[meadowstream]

Ward Labs report came back last night:
pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 130
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.22
Cations / Anions, me/L 1.9/1.8

Sodium, Na 17
Potassium, K 11
Calcium, Ca 15
Magnesium, Mg 2
Total Hardness, CaCO3 46
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.5 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 3
Chloride, Cl 27
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 48
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 39
Total Phosphorus, P 0.14
Total Iron, Fe 0.01

I downloaded the free Bru'n Water spreadsheet to get an idea of how to adjust water, and played around for a bit. I am not sure if I am using the spreadsheet perfectly, but it looks like if I add 1.25g/gal of gypsum, 0.25g/gal of Calcium Chloride, and 0.25 g/gal of chalk then my water adjusts calcium, sulfate, chloride, and alkalinity levels up to "pale ale profile".

1st question: does that seem right? I have no intuition about this!

2nd question: where do we home brewers usually buy gypsum, calcium chloride, etc.?

3rd question: is the pale ale profile "in the ballpark" of what you would aim for if you are making an IPA?

My last question is: what is the difference between the free version and the paid version of Bru'n Water? I guess if there is none and I am using the spreadsheet correctly then I don't have a problem paying for it in any event...

 

[abrix]

Caveat: I haven't plugged your numbers into the spreadsheet myself, so this is off the cuff.

I would omit the chalk. You probably don't need the calcium, and you may only need the additional alkalinity if your IPA is darker or has more crystal malts. Even then, you're better off getting that alkalinity from baking soda.

You could maybe even skip the calcium chloride for hoppier beers.

For an IPA, I would personally bring the sulfate up to 350ppm if that 1.25 g/gal gypsum doesn't get you there.

I get my brewing salts at my LHBS.

Also, totes jealous of your brewing water. You and that water...you can go places!

 

[meadowstream]

Thanks abrix - I really appreciate your reply. I could substitute gypsum for the chalk and that would bring the sulfates up into the area you recommended...

Right now, the water makes pretty great dark strong belgians and very average IPAs.

I can't wait to start modifying the water and seeing what kind of difference shows up in the beer.

 

[mabrungard]

Chalk is a poor alkalinity provider since it doesn't dissolve in a timely manner...even in the mash. Using pickling lime or baking soda are better options for increasing alkalinity in those few brews that might need it.

Now for the need for increased alkalinity when using the Pale Ale profile. The desire for high sulfate in the brewing water necessitates the addition of a lot of gypsum. The high concentration of calcium added with the gypsum, drives the residual alkalinity (RA) of the mash down significantly. The alkalinity level quoted in the Pale Ale profile helps boost the RA and keep the mash pH up. For hoppy beers, a pH of around 5.4 helps with the hop expression. If the pH falls too low, the hops and bittering can be muted.

That tap water profile is fairly well suited as a starting point. Modest concentrations for the ions. The very low sulfate content would produce very soft IPA's, so I'm not surprised by your observation. Boosting that level will provide significant improvement in the pop from the hopping.

The basic engine that drives the mash pH prediction in both the free and supporter's versions of Bru'n Water are the same. The differences between the two versions include a number of user interface improvements and some additional features. The good thing is that you decide how much those differences are worth!

Enjoy!

 

[meadowstream]

Martin, thanks again for sharing your spreadsheet. I contributed via paypal this morning. My IPA was markedly better than in the past because of your help.

 

[ajdelange]

Ward Labs report came back last night:
pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 130
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.22
Cations / Anions, me/L 1.9/1.8

Sodium, Na 17
Potassium, K 11
Calcium, Ca 15
Magnesium, Mg 2
Total Hardness, CaCO3 46
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.5 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 3
Chloride, Cl 27
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 48
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 39
Total Phosphorus, P 0.14
Total Iron, Fe 0.01

I downloaded the free Bru'n Water spreadsheet to get an idea of how to adjust water, and played around for a bit. I am not sure if I am using the spreadsheet perfectly, but it looks like if I add 1.25g/gal of gypsum, 0.25g/gal of Calcium Chloride, and 0.25 g/gal of chalk then my water adjusts calcium, sulfate, chloride, and alkalinity levels up to "pale ale profile".

1st question: does that seem right? I have no intuition about this!

At this level of understanding you should not be worried about profiles. There is plenty of time for that later on as you come to understand what the various ions do. That's pretty good water you have and there is no need to mess with it for an IPA except to get the sulfate up if you like sulfate. Adding 1/2 tsp each of CaCl2 and gypsum to each 5 gal of this water is all you need to do. When the beer is finished taste it with additional sulfate (gypsum added) to see if you want more of that on future brews.

You most probably should not add any alkali. Calcium has a very restrained effect on mash pH. Adding enough gypsum to DI water at level sufficient to induce 300 mg/L sulfate implies a calcium level of 128 mg/L which is a lot. Even so mash pH will be suppressed by perhaps only 0.15. This is not insignificant that you can ignore it but is small enough that you don't need to add alkali. Using less acid (1.5% or 1% instead of 2 - 3% sauermalz should get you right about where you want to be (depending, of course, on the particular grains you are using, their quantities and the water to grist ratio). You are really shooting for best flavor in the mash and a pH around 5.4 - 5.6 is best for that. Adding alkali increases mash pH which results in dull flavors overall in the finished beer.

If you can get mash pH into the 5.4 - 5.6 range kettle pH should be plenty high for good hops utilization. If you want more you can always increase the pH in the kettle (that's where the bittering is extracted) but don't forget to lower it again at the end of the boil to make things easier on the yeast.

2nd question: where do we home brewers usually buy gypsum, calcium chloride, etc.?

Probably most guys get it from a local home brew supplier, some from mail-order home brew suppliers and some from chemical suppliers. The LHBS or internet are the easiest.

3rd question: is the pale ale profile "in the ballpark" of what you would aim for if you are making an IPA?

Probably not. When I make an IPA (which is rare) I just add some calcium chloride to RO or well water. I do not like high sulfate which puts me in a minority (I think) so take my answer to this one with a grain of salt.

My last question is: what is the difference between the free version and the paid version of Bru'n Water? I guess if there is none and I am using the spreadsheet correctly then I don't have a problem paying for it in any event...

Extra features I guess. I don't use it.

 

[ncbrewer]

That's pretty good water you have and there is no need to mess with it for an IPA except to get the sulfate up if you like sulfate. Adding 1/2 tsp each of CaCl2 and gypsum to each 5 gal of this water is all you need to do.

Why is the CaCl2 used if we're only trying to increase the sulfate?

 

[ajdelange]

It's sort of like the chicken soup of brewing. He doesn't have a lot of chloride and chloride does good things to most peoples' way of thinking - up to a point. Once he gets going he should really experiment with chloride and sulfate levels.

 

[meadowstream]

I read "Water" (note from Martin Brungard included!) and enjoyed it. I used Martin's spreadsheet to arrive at the appropriate quantities of gypsum and calcium chloride to add to bring water profile to pale ale level.

FWIW, I was trying to bring up alkalinity, but not sulfate specifically (one of the reasons I used calcium chloride instead of just gypsum was to add some Ca+ without also adding more sulfate.

I am generally very critical of my pale ales and IPAs. This IPA, along with Thornbridge's Jaipur, was one of my all time favorites. I think it was water chemistry that put it over the top.