Using American Oak Chips - Amounts and Techniques

[Dgallo]

Looking to start a thread on how people utilize American Oak Chip—amounts, duration of contact time, Methods for implementation, which styles work best and overall experience.

I’ll start this thread off by asking for some advice;

Im currently aging some mixed culture farmhouse style ales and want to add another layer of complexity by incorporating oak barrel profile. What is your preferred method adding abs what is a good amount to start with?

 

[Snuffy]

I'm no help but I got 2 cents...

I am currently fermenting a version of the all-grain Pirate Strong Ale that I found a recipe for here on HBT. I have 4 oz of French oak chips soaking in Myers dark rum as prescribed and I have high hopes for the oak characteristic being a plus for this big, dark, beer full of vanilla, cinnamon, pineapple and rum flavors. The oak and vanilla go into the secondary next week. I have stuck religiously to the recipe. Can't wait. If this works out as described, it will be my first oaking success.

That being said, I have used oak in ales twice before - both times using medium toast Hungarian oak cubes and both times winging it w/o guidance. One was an extract Moose Drool clone I got as a freebie and the other a mini mash Frankenbeer I made from 2 pale ale extract kits my dad gave me, assorted hop leftovers and Notty. Both I used only 2 ounces of oak cubes soaked in cheap whisky for about 3 days. Both were pretty bad. The Moose Drool clone was better of the two but still not good. Sort of a mothball aftertaste. The pale experiment was never really expected to be good and I added fig puree after the initial taste test gave me the Will Smith meme face. It was a disaster and I drank nearly every bit of both batches to atone for my oaken sins. Lesson learned was that oak, IMO, is better as a nuance than a flavor. What amount that requires has eluded me. There are a few variables there that matter a lot. What kind of oak. How toasty. The form it's in. How it's prepared or soaked. When and how it's introduced. How long it stays in contact.

Anyway. Good luck.

 

[minorhero]

I am newbie sooooo yeah not going to be able to give you specifics. I usually don't like oaked beer that I buy at the store. But I do woodworking as a hobby so I have immediate access to a relatively large number of different species of wood. I was thus very very surprised to find that in the brewing hobby the only thing people seem to be talking about is oak. I really expected there to be a ton of different woods being used in homebrew but... nope its all about oak.

This is weird to me because oak has a VERY strong smell which from my drinking (as opposed to brewing) experience tends to translate to a very strong flavor. I have fermenting right now a cherry wood brown ale that I have a lot of hopes for. I added about 6 oz (guestimate) of cherry wood to the 60 minute boil on a 3 gallon (pre boil) volume of water. I experimented doing this in advance with just plain water and liked the amount of flavor I got from the wood. The wood is onetime use and I tossed it after I was done.

When I looked online I saw most people recommending oak for darker beers (browns and porters etc). I'm hoping to add wood to a larger variety of beers and just use species of wood that is appropriate for each style, but I don't have first hand experience to say if this will work or not.

 

[Dgallo]

I am newbie sooooo yeah not going to be able to give you specifics. I usually don't like oaked beer that I buy at the store. But I do woodworking as a hobby so I have immediate access to a relatively large number of different species of wood. I was thus very very surprised to find that in the brewing hobby the only thing people seem to be talking about is oak. I really expected there to be a ton of different woods being used in homebrew but... nope its all about oak.

This is weird to me because oak has a VERY strong smell which from my drinking (as opposed to brewing) experience tends to translate to a very strong flavor. I have fermenting right now a cherry wood brown ale that I have a lot of hopes for. I added about 6 oz (guestimate) of cherry wood to the 60 minute boil on a 3 gallon (pre boil) volume of water. I experimented doing this in advance with just plain water and liked the amount of flavor I got from the wood. The wood is onetime use and I tossed it after I was done.

When I looked online I saw most people recommending oak for darker beers (browns and porters etc). I'm hoping to add wood to a larger variety of beers and just use species of wood that is appropriate for each style, but I don't have first hand experience to say if this will work or not.

Well oak is the primary wood for barrel making because it’s tight enough to hold liquid, porous enough to allow the liquid in and out, and it has a wonder vanill character when toasted first

 

[Knightshade]

I'm no help but I got 2 cents...

I am currently fermenting a version of the all-grain Pirate Strong Ale that I found a recipe for here on HBT. I have 4 oz of French oak chips soaking in Myers dark rum as prescribed and I have high hopes for the oak characteristic being a plus for this big, dark, beer full of vanilla, cinnamon, pineapple and rum flavors. The oak and vanilla go into the secondary next week. I have stuck religiously to the recipe. Can't wait. If this works out as described, it will be my first oaking success.

That being said, I have used oak in ales twice before - both times using medium toast Hungarian oak cubes and both times winging it w/o guidance. One was an extract Moose Drool clone I got as a freebie and the other a mini mash Frankenbeer I made from 2 pale ale extract kits my dad gave me, assorted hop leftovers and Notty. Both I used only 2 ounces of oak cubes soaked in cheap whisky for about 3 days. Both were pretty bad. The Moose Drool clone was better of the two but still not good. Sort of a mothball aftertaste. The pale experiment was never really expected to be good and I added fig puree after the initial taste test gave me the Will Smith meme face. It was a disaster and I drank nearly every bit of both batches to atone for my oaken sins. Lesson learned was that oak, IMO, is better as a nuance than a flavor. What amount that requires has eluded me. There are a few variables there that matter a lot. What kind of oak. How toasty. The form it's in. How it's prepared or soaked. When and how it's introduced.

Anyway. Good luck.

I've made this same beer twice. First time, I soaked light French oak chips for 2 weeks, turned out great.

2nd batch...Mistake #1, used Medium Toasted American oak chips because I didn't plan correctly and couldn't get Light French oak chips. Not a mistake because of the type (at least I don't think), but improper planning on my part.
Mistake #2...much bigger in my opinion is letting time get away from me and having the EXACT same Rum & Vanilla Bean (brands and quantity) sit on those oak chips for a month. <---Again..improper planning...

5.5 months after brew day and settled down a little bit...but not much. The beer is 'drinkable' but the Oak is just overpowering so much of the beer in the finish. Ended up blending some other stuff in it to help mute it a bit, which has helped...but yeah. My assumed takeaway is that a month on oak chips is just way too damn long.

 

[Dgallo]

I've made this same beer twice. First time, I soaked light French oak chips for 2 weeks, turned out great.

2nd batch...Mistake #1, used Medium Toasted American oak chips because I didn't plan correctly and couldn't get Light French oak chips. Not a mistake because of the type (at least I don't think), but improper planning on my part.
Mistake #2...much bigger in my opinion is letting time get away from me and having the EXACT same Rum & Vanilla Bean (brands and quantity) sit on those oak chips for a month. <---Again..improper planning...

5.5 months after brew day and settled down a little bit...but not much. The beer is 'drinkable' but the Oak is just overpowering so much of the beer in the finish. Ended up blending some other stuff in it to help mute it a bit, which has helped...but yeah. My assumed takeaway is that a month on oak chips is just way too damn long.

How much did you use?

 

[Golddiggie]

I've mostly used oak cubes, not chips, due to the better character provided by cubes. Chips are more one note, where cubes are more 'rounded'. IME, cubes provided a better, more stable, flavor addition. I've also not soaked them in anything so that I actually get the full character from the oak. IIRC, I used chips in a very early recipe and the results were 'meh' compared with what I get from cubes.

Also, IME, oak cubes are usually let sit for several weeks before removing the beer from them. I've used cubes in my mocha porter (8%+) with solid results at 4-8 weeks soak time. Cubes can sit for 6+ months without any negative effects.

Right now I'm using a pair of medium+ toast level oak spirals in an old ale. Those have a listed full extraction time frame of 6 weeks. I also have some honeycomb pattern woods that I plan to use in other recipes (not sure what just yet). I've had those for several years now, so I want to use them to see what I get. These are different woods, not oak. IIRC, a couple types of maple and cherry.

Also, look at the Hungarian oak cubes. I've used those for everything so far. The spirals are American, which is why I expect I'll be removing the old ale before the 6 week time frame.

 

[Knightshade]

How much did you use?

4oz of chips. I used a 16 oz wide mouth mason jar and dumped the chips in. Based on volume, I almost had to fill the damn thing up w/rum to cover all the chips. Numbers don't add up, but liquid vs. solid, displacement and all the maths.

 

[minorhero]

Well oak is the primary wood for barrel making because it’s tight enough to hold liquid, porous enough to allow the liquid in and out, and it has a wonder vanill character when toasted first

Depends on when we are talking about. My historic understanding is that coopers used whatever wood was available to them to make barrels. Different species would have been available in different parts of the world and this included many species of trees other then oak to make barrels. I was reading somewhere that beer barrels used to also be covered in pitch on the inside to keep the beer from interacting with the wood. Also older unpitched barrels that had been used many times before would not impart flavors into the beer.

In modern times we have a lot of oak being used because the liquor and wine industry use oak and also because oak is cheap and plentiful. But for homebrew we don't need a barrel, we just need a couple of ounces of wood. So getting some offcuts from a hardwood seller should be a free or very inexpensive way of getting just about any wood we could want.

 

[Golddiggie]

Contribution from the oak changes depending on the toast level. Google it to see what I'm talking about. Untoasted oak really won't do all that much.

Some decent info under each item here: MoreBeer
Do note that chips are mentioned as:
Chips are usually done giving flavor after a week, there by contributing a harsh, flat oak flavor.

Which is why I use cubes, or larger pieces.

 

[Dgallo]

Contribution from the oak changes depending on the toast level. Google it to see what I'm talking about. Untoasted oak really won't do all that much.

Some decent info under each item here: MoreBeer
Do note that chips are mentioned as:
Chips are usually done giving flavor after a week, there by contributing a harsh, flat oak flavor.

Which is why I use cubes, or larger pieces.

Not that I’m experienced yet using it but I have a feeling the reason chip are harsh because they have better extraction with more surface area. I’m sure by blending to taste or even timing the contact time better. I feel like everything involved in brewing is craft/art and as long as process allows, it can be done

 

[Golddiggie]

It's actually less surface area on chips than cubes. Chips are thin pieces that don't have much to contribute.

Also, cubes are uniform in size. Chips are far from it.

 

[Dgallo]

It's actually less surface area on chips than cubes. Chips are thin pieces that don't have much to contribute.

Your thinking one cube to one chip which isn’t really a good comparison. You have to compare the surface area by weight... Chips have far more surface contact

 

[Golddiggie]

Your thinking one cube to one chip which isn’t really a good comparison. You have to compare the surface area by weight... Chips have far more surface contact

The fact that chips give the 'harsh, flat oak flavor' is MORE than enough reason, for me, to avoid them. Use what you like, but you're looking at no more than a week addition time.

Even if you try the weight aspect, I still think cubes beat the snot out of chips. We're not talking about 1" per side cubes here, but smaller (1/4" to 3/8" per side) so you get a good amount for the weight. With chips being very random in size and shape, you won't get a the same type of flavor effect.

End of the day, I got 'meh' results from chips the time I used them. Switching to cubes gave a far superior flavor/character effect to the brew.

Also, the oak type and toast levels are a factor. Look at those before you get what you're going to use. Heavy toast is different from medium, or medium+ toast or light toast.

 

[BIGRUGBY]

My experience with oak-
Oak chips- Adds oak flavor in a hurry, but ends up tasting like you dry hopped mulch. Still tasted better than the English hops in my ESB (apparently I'm not a fan of EKG hops).
Oak Cubes- Bought medium toast French/American/Hungarian cubes and boiled them for 10 minutes, then added them to the keg for the duration of serving (6 months to a year). 2 oz of cubes had a slight taste in my Wee Heavy. 3 oz of cubes in my 11% Imperial Stout was perfect. I've started drinking my barrel aged Imperial Stout that has been aging for 7 months and the level of oak is perfect. If it gets too heavy I can close transfer it to a new keg. I dont think it will get too heavy of an oak flavor as boiling it removed so many tannins and much of the harsh woody flavor.

 

[superiorsat]

On a 12 gallon batch I start with a little more than 8 oz of light chips. Boil for 5 to get rid of the harsh character. Then use a torch to manually char the chips to black. You lose a little due to burning them up so that is why I start with a little more than 8 oz. Split a couple vanilla beans and put in a mason jar with the chips, fill with bourbon of choice, let set for a month. On brew day just before filling the fermenter I will sanitize a bag and stainless weights aka triclamp caps put the funnel in the fermenter and bag in that then dump the whole jar bourbon and all into the bag, tie it up and put at the bottom of the fermenter and then fill on top of it. Ferment 2 weeks as normal and keg. I use it for an imperial stout and a old ale. It adds a fantastic smooth character to both beers, not woody or straight oaked and not enough bourbon to be easily detected if at all if you didn't know it was in there. I've done an oak tea to fix a beer years ago that was to sweet and boiling the chips and adding it offset the sweetness with the harsh oaked flavor which I actually liked. Lots of ways to get different results. I think your probably gonna have to experiment to see what you like and what you were shooting for.

 

[Dgallo]

On a 12 gallon batch I start with a little more than 8 oz of light chips. Boil for 5 to get rid of the harsh character. Then use a torch to manually char the chips to black. You lose a little due to burning them up so that is why I start with a little more than 8 oz. Split a couple vanilla beans and put in a mason jar with the chips, fill with bourbon of choice, let set for a month. On brew day just before filling the fermenter I will sanitize a bag and stainless weights aka triclamp caps put the funnel in the fermenter and bag in that then dump the whole jar bourbon and all into the bag, tie it up and put at the bottom of the fermenter and then fill on top of it. Ferment 2 weeks as normal and keg. I use it for an imperial stout and a old ale. It adds a fantastic smooth character to both beers, not woody or straight oaked and not enough bourbon to be easily detected if all if you didn't know it was in there. I've done an oak tea to fix a beer years ago that was to sweet and boiling the chips and adding it offset the sweetness with the harsh oaked flavor which I actually liked. Lots if way to get different results. I think your probably gonna have to experiment to see what you like and what you were shooting for.

So I was hoping to hear this process as it’s what I was going to attempt. Im thinking about splitting the chips between white wine soak and whiskey. The wine one is for a White Sangria Inspired farmhouse ale with Brett and lactobacillus and for whiskey I planned on using it as a tincture and adding it to various bottles of the other 2 mixed cultures farmhouse beer to do some testing

 

[Dgallo]

My experience with oak-
Oak chips- Adds oak flavor in a hurry, but ends up tasting like you dry hopped mulch. Still tasted better than the English hops in my ESB (apparently I'm not a fan of EKG hops).
Oak Cubes- Bought medium toast French/American/Hungarian cubes and boiled them for 10 minutes, then added them to the keg for the duration of serving (6 months to a year). 2 oz of cubes had a slight taste in my Wee Heavy. 3 oz of cubes in my 11% Imperial Stout was perfect. I've started drinking my barrel aged Imperial Stout that has been aging for 7 months and the level of oak is perfect. If it gets too heavy I can close transfer it to a new keg. I dont think it will get too heavy of an oak flavor as boiling it removed so many tannins and much of the harsh woody flavor.

Thanks for the info

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

I'm no help but I got 2 cents...

I am currently fermenting a version of the all-grain Pirate Strong Ale that I found a recipe for here on HBT. I have 4 oz of French oak chips soaking in Myers dark rum as prescribed and I have high hopes for the oak characteristic being a plus for this big, dark, beer full of vanilla, cinnamon, pineapple and rum flavors. The oak and vanilla go into the secondary next week. I have stuck religiously to the recipe. Can't wait. If this works out as described, it will be my first oaking success.

That being said, I have used oak in ales twice before - both times using medium toast Hungarian oak cubes and both times winging it w/o guidance. One was an extract Moose Drool clone I got as a freebie and the other a mini mash Frankenbeer I made from 2 pale ale extract kits my dad gave me, assorted hop leftovers and Notty. Both I used only 2 ounces of oak cubes soaked in cheap whisky for about 3 days. Both were pretty bad. The Moose Drool clone was better of the two but still not good. Sort of a mothball aftertaste. The pale experiment was never really expected to be good and I added fig puree after the initial taste test gave me the Will Smith meme face. It was a disaster and I drank nearly every bit of both batches to atone for my oaken sins. Lesson learned was that oak, IMO, is better as a nuance than a flavor. What amount that requires has eluded me. There are a few variables there that matter a lot. What kind of oak. How toasty. The form it's in. How it's prepared or soaked. When and how it's introduced. How long it stays in contact.

Anyway. Good luck.

I made this beer last year, great beer. Good luck.

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

I like using the medium charred oak cubes better than the chips, seems my beer comes out smoother using the cubes. I soak 2-4 ounces of cubes (it’s pre packed can’t remember how they came) in 2-3 cups of bourbon for 2 weeks and then dump it all in my beer in secondary for around 10-14 days. The best way to go which is rather expensive is buying a 5 gallon bourbon barrel, I’ve made some great barelywines and Stouts with bourbon barrels. They cost around $125-$150 to get and you can use them normally 3 times until the all the flavor is out of the barrel. Good Luck

 

[madscientist451]

Im thinking about splitting the chips between white wine soak and whiskey. The wine one is for a White Sangria Inspired farmhouse ale with Brett and lactobacillus and for whiskey I planned on using it as a tincture and adding it to various bottles of the other 2 mixed cultures farmhouse beer to do some testing

You're on the right track with the above approach. Its real easy to add too much wood character.
But since you are making two versions with chips, why not add to that? Get some untoasted cubes and try those. Get some French and Hungarian Oak and see what that provides. See what different toast profiles you can find and try that.
I mostly use Jack Daniel's barrel chips (for barbeque use) in a jar with some Rebel Yell. After a few weeks the chips go in the keg and after a few weeks I'll add some of the bourbon to bump up the flavor. I use about 1 oz of chips per gallon, but the bourbon takes some of the wood flavor out so if you are tossing them straight in you likely want to use less.
None of this is done by recipe, it all comes down to taste and blending.

 

[DBhomebrew]

What about oaking in primary vs secondary? At pitch vs post-fermentation conditioning?

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

What about oaking in primary vs secondary? At pitch vs post-fermentation conditioning?

good question, I always oak beer in secondary because that’s what I was told to do years back when I started brewing but I also make wine and I oak in primary and secondary with wine.

 

[DBhomebrew]

My question arises around attempting a Traquair clone. They ferment in oak vessels.

 

[agentbud]

Bought 8 oz american oak med char spirals and soaked in bourbon 2 weeks, added 4 oz of it to a stout in secondary for 2 weeks. It turned out ok. 2 years later I remembered the other 4 oz was still soaking in the bourbon tucked away in a cabinet so I brewed a chocolate stout, added the oak in secondary for 2 weeks then kegged. 1 month later I tasted it - perfect amount of oak and bourbon flavor but does not override the hint of chocolate. It is quite tasty!

 

[couchsending]

Always cubes, never chips

most informative thing you’ll ever listen to on oak and using wine yeast...

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1888/
Most professional brewers will tell you they’re not looking for “oak charcter” when aging in oak barrels/foeders/puncheons, etc, especially for mixed ferment beers. Rather they’re looking for micro oxidation from the wood itself. Barrel aging is one of the hardest things to pull off on a small scale due to the surface to volume ratio. You’ll end up with so much oak character long before the benefits of the micro oxidation set in.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I really like the Med toast spirals from Barrel Mill. Hated using chips, too much oxidation the one time used. Used cubes next and they were fine. I’ve gotten more from the spirals than anything else. I make a Kate the Great style stout with Port and Oak. I’ve never used the French Oak. I alway buy the American Oak. When I want the whisky/bourbon addition I soak the spiral in a mason jar for 1 month. I use 4oz of the spiral and 2oz of port per 5 gal keg. I then purge the keg and let it soak with the oak for 6 months. 4oz of Oak is what I’m normally using.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I use staves of American white oak in my pressure fermenter keg. I pull out a clean looking split from the firewood pile, and freshen up the edges with an ax. Then I leave it on the smokey side of the grill when marking wings or beef tenderloin or whatever.. leave it in the grill when the food is gone to give it a long low and slow toast.
They add a whisky flavor to the beer, for sure.. more flavor if less toasted, and can easily overpower a light beer. But adding some roasty toasty specialty malts can balance the oakyness. And the oakyness dies down with subsequent batches.
I “rescued” an early batch, where I only used the oven to toast the stave for an hour or so. It was quite oaky, so I added a super strong pot of drip coffee brewed with cocoa powder and added sugar to purge/restart the ferment. It wasn’t a coffee stout, but the bold whisky flavor was well balanced by the roast.