Using a stove or dryer 240v plugin

[tjosborne]

Any thing I should worry about if I do this? I'm not sure on the amps or anything on either.

 

[jekeane]

Dying? You need to have some form of GFCI in your system. A standard plug does not have this. Stoves are generally 50a and dryers are 30a but neither are GFCI protected.

 

[tjosborne]

Ok are there in line ones like http://www.brew-boss.com/product-p/gfi-240-30-l6.htm that I can use? I would like to use the dryer plug if at all possible or if not that I could use two 120v but not sure how good that would work.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Ok are there in line ones like http://www.brew-boss.com/product-p/gfi-240-30-l6.htm that I can use? I would like to use the dryer plug if at all possible or if not that I could use two 120v but not sure how good that would work.

Yes. search for: Northern States Safety inline GFCI, they can be had in 240V 30A for $150-200, with various configurations of bare wires / various plugs , and lower voltages and amperages for cheeper.

 

[jgoldsworthy]

The brew-boss in-line GFCI would work, but I see 2 challenges with that approach. 1) It has L6-30 connectors on it, which will not fit either a stove or dryer outlet. 2) L6-30 doesn't have a neutral (white) conductor. Ok, one can "make" it work (by bonding a neutral bus to the ground in the controller although not legal) and depending on the application, you might not even need a neutral if you're not planning any 120 volt branches.

That said, I'm working on upgrading my current controller from 120 to 240. I'm planning to use my 30AMP dryer outlet as you mentioned. Now, the catch is this missing GFCI... Here's my approach. Using a 4 prong dryer cord, into a 50AMP Spa Panel (which has a GFCI breaker in it), and a L14-30 receptacle for the outbound leg to my controller. I'm upgrading the wiring in my controller to 10AWG to handle the increase to 30AMP. The 30AMP breaker in my house panel will give me overload protection and the 50AMP GFCI in the spa panel will give me the GFCI protection.

Another approach would be to replace the 30AMP breaker in my house panel, but a 240v 30AMP GFCI breaker is well over $100. I got the spa panel at Lowes for $60, the dryer cord from Amazon for $17, and the L14-30 receptacle from Lowes for $16. While it comes out to "about" the same cash outlay, the spa panel gives me portability to take my system anyplace that has a 4 prong dryer outlet (friend's house, new house, etc)

 

[andrewmaixner]

The brew-boss in-line GFCI would work, but I see 2 challenges with that approach. 1) It has L6-30 connectors on it, which will not fit either a stove or dryer outlet. 2) L6-30 doesn't have a neutral (white) conductor. Ok, one can "make" it work (by bonding a neutral bus to the ground in the controller although not legal) and depending on the application, you might not even need a neutral if you're not planning any 120 volt branches.

That said, I'm working on upgrading my current controller from 120 to 240. I'm planning to use my 30AMP dryer outlet as you mentioned. Now, the catch is this missing GFCI... Here's my approach. Using a 4 prong dryer cord, into a 50AMP Spa Panel (which has a GFCI breaker in it), and a L14-30 receptacle for the outbound leg to my controller. I'm upgrading the wiring in my controller to 10AWG to handle the increase to 30AMP. The 30AMP breaker in my house panel will give me overload protection and the 50AMP GFCI in the spa panel will give me the GFCI protection.

Another approach would be to replace the 30AMP breaker in my house panel, but a 240v 30AMP GFCI breaker is well over $100. I got the spa panel at Lowes for $60, the dryer cord from Amazon for $17, and the L14-30 receptacle from Lowes for $16. While it comes out to "about" the same cash outlay, the spa panel gives me portability to take my system anyplace that has a 4 prong dryer outlet (friend's house, new house, etc)

Is there any safe way to make a inline GFCI that could pull from either one of 3 and 4 wire supply?

 

[jgoldsworthy]

"Is there any safe way to make a inline GFCI that could pull from either one of 3 and 4 wire supply?"

Sure! Is it cheap? Nope! LOL No matter how you look at it, you'd need different cords from the wall outlet (either 3 or 4 wire/prong) to whatever box you're using (be it a DIY or purchased In-line GFCI, or directly into a controller).

If I were to do it, I'd go with a L14-30 receptacle on the inbound side of my spa panel. Then I'd have the appropriate dryer cord, wired to an L14-30 connector (to get me from wall to my spa panel).

Having two (or more) cords hard wired to the spa panel would NOT be safe at all!! When you plug one of the inbound cords plugged into the wall, the other cords would be live as well. Since they have exposed prongs, you're asking for an early death.

Regarding the previously mentioned brew-boss in-line GFCI, now that I think about it...I have no idea how they have that thing wired. Normal L6-30 is Hot-Hot-GND and a GFCI only monitors the hot and neutral leads, leaving ground unmonitored. Thus, if you tried to "make" a neutral and bond it to the ground, it would short the GFCI and trip immediately. Since the Brew Boss does have a 120v pump option, that leads me to believe that in-line GFCI is using Hot-Hot-Neutral, without a ground. Perhaps an L11-30? Man...I have no idea... I'm happy going with the spa panel solution. Cheaper and I understand it. ;-)

 

[tjosborne]

I think I may just do two 120v elements, seems it may be simpler and safer as well as cheaper. Is it possible to run two plugged into separate circuits with one pid?

 

[angrybits]

I think I may just do two 120v elements, seems it may be simpler and safer as well as cheaper. Is it possible to run two plugged into separate circuits with one pid?

Yep, just need two SSRs. The controller I have can run several at once.

 

[tjosborne]

Yep, just need two SSRs. The controller I have can run several at once.

Do you have a build of yours or one like yours on here? I'm assuming with two elements you do 10 gallons batches. How long does it take to heat up?

 

[angrybits]

I only run one element, was just passing along how you could do two. With the one I use (Auber EZBoil) you can hook up more than one SSR to it in parallel (postives to postitives, negatives to negatives). The data sheet for your controller should give you the details but any quality PID should allow that.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Last year, I was in your shoes. I was building a 50 amp back to back panel but didn't have power to my garage. I used a 50 amp range plug and a 50 amp connector. I was planning on putting a 50 amp gcfi breaker in my existing sub panel until I saw the price of a 50 amp gcfi breaker (150 bucks). I then quickly switched to the spa panel route. When I was looking for a spa panel I found out that the breakers in most spa panels matched my main panel breakers. So I went back to my original plan and after some discussions with an electrician with a health dose of home brew. He told me to move some breakers from my main panel to the sub panel and to put the 50 amp spa breaker in my main panel because it had a lager capacity. Worked perfectly. Saved me some cash too