US-04 off flavour

[yugga]

I recently brewed an all grain English Mild O.G. 1.042 est. F.G 1.014. The US-04 seemed to ferment quickly in my fermentation chamber set at 66F. After 1 week the gravity was 1.017. The hydrometer sample was terrible, very "yeasty" to me it tasted like bad homebrew. At this point I wasn't too worried as it's still very green. The next week I took another sample. The gravity remained the same, not sure why it didn't finish lower since it's such a small beer. What really worries me is the fact that the yeasty homebrew taste is still strong. I've only used this yeast once before and it had this same awful flavour that never got better. At the time I wrote it off to temperature fluctuations and a cheep extract kit. But now I'm tasting it again. I'm positive it's a yeast problem, the previous 10-12 all grain batches have been great primarily using US-05. I'm wondering if anyone else has had this problem using this yeast.

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

What is maintained at 66 F? The true wort temperature or the chamber ambient temp? If it's the chamber, I think that would be a little too warm to leave S04. My guess is that the "yeasty homebrew" taste you describe is just twang caused by compounds from a warm S04 ferment.

Try setting your chamber to 50 F! S04 crushes it.

 

[yugga]

What is maintained at 66 F? The true wort temperature or the chamber ambient temp? If it's the chamber, I think that would be a little too warm to leave S04. My guess is that the "yeasty homebrew" taste you describe is just twang caused by compounds from a warm S04 ferment.

Try setting your chamber to 50 F! S04 crushes it.

I had the temperature probe attached to the side of the carboy with a towel covering it. Twang is a good description. Is 66F too hot?

 

[yugga]

I had the temperature probe attached to the side of the carboy with a towel covering it. Twang is a good description. Is 66F too hot?

 

[lumpher]

some people don't like s-04. i've heard others say the same thing. i like s-04. as far as the temp, 66 is fine. 50 would not be my choice; i ferment s-04 at 62 dF. you might just be 1 of those that don't like the estery english yeasts

 

[yugga]

some people don't like s-04. i've heard others say the same thing. i like s-04. as far as the temp, 66 is fine. 50 would not be my choice; i ferment s-04 at 62 dF. you might just be 1 of those that don't like the estery english yeasts

It could be that I just don't like the yeast. I also realize that it's still quite young. My plan now is to cold crash, fine with gelatine and hope it mellows with time.

 

[yugga]

It could be that I just don't like the yeast. I also realize that it's still quite young. My plan now is to cold crash, fine with gelatine and hope it mellows with time.

 

[AnthonyUK]

If you need to using a fining with S-04 there is possibly something amiss. It is one of the most flocculant yeasts I've used and normally drops bright with just a cold crash.
It does throw some esters but not too bad especially at the temp you used.
Don't give up on it as it is a great dried yeast in beer styles where an absolutely clean yeast profile is required.

 

[beerkench]

I find too that 04 has a bready taste to it when the beer is green, and that it lessens off when given time.


Sent from hell
using Home Brew

 

[mattdee1]

For what it's worth, I've done two batches recently with S-04, and both of them completely transformed (for the better) between hydrometer sample and final bottle conditioned beer.

 

[m00ps]

I agree with those that said its the yeast. Back when I used only dry yeast, I tracked down a lot of my off flavors stemming from using that yeast. I never used it again

check thsi out
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2012/12/off-flavor-or-infection-diagnosing-my.html

 

[beerkench]

Interestingly check out one of the latest articles on the main page, the 10 questions for a homebrewer:

"4. What's the worst product you've ever used?

I'll be unpopular for this, but I've actually tossed gallons of beer down the drain because of S-04 yeast. I've tried to like this yeast, I've wanted to like this yeast....but I just can't. I've brewed it cold, I've let it brew warm. My palette can detect the twang from English yeast, including Nottingham, WLP 002, etc. It's gotten to the point that my dislike of these yeasts ruins trips to brewpubs that use English yeasts, and it's gotten worse over time. It's not a reflection of the product, just of my personal taste. For every beer I've dumped because of it, I've given just as much away to friends that think I'm crazy. Maybe I am…."

 

[z-bob]

I used S-04 in a ESB and the beer is kind of thin and has a metallic taste to it It's drinkable, but it's not very good (it's better if I let it warm up some)

I used S-04 again in an IPA, and in a cider. Both are about ready to bottle; I haven't sampled them yet. Got my fingers crossed...

I may start using T-58 in everything, whether it's appropriate for the style or not. It's cheap, not fussy about temperature, and I like the flavor.

 

[agrazela]

My experience with S-04 is: Ferment at 63°F or lower and it's a bit English-y ester-y and makes delicious ales. Ferment at 64°F or higher and it throws a disgusting green-apple-y twang that never goes away. I really do find it to be that black-and-white.

 

[aprichman]

I'm fermenting a beer with S-04 for the first time - I usually use liquid yeast but I figured since I had the pack floating around might as well use it up. Held at 64.5F - 66F for primary. This thread makes me go Hopefully the 2 ounce dry hop will dominate the palate.

 

[beerkench]

In its defence however I would say that there's all too much expectation these days for a beer to be ready within a couple of weeks due to the popularity of neutral yeast strains, when a lot of yeasts deserve some aging to let the beer shine.

 

[UndeadFred]

I really don't like S-04. I am lazy and I need to brew a couple of styles that I'd normally brew with this or Windsor (or maybe Nottingham if I were desperate) and I'm going to fire up that stir plate that I built a year ago and do me first liquid.. 'nuff said...

Fred

 

[pablosbrewing]

I used S-04 in a ESB and the beer is kind of thin and has a metallic taste to it It's drinkable, but it's not very good (it's better if I let it warm up some)

Try adjusting serving temp to the style - ESB is a cellar temp beer (mid 50's).

http://www.ratebeer.com/Story.asp?StoryID=479

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

US04 is a high flocculating yeast I was just reading this the other day, I'm quoting white labs website

"High flocculation is a characteristic of many English origin yeast strains. The yeast will begin to clump in
3-5 days, and drop to form a compact yeast cake at the bottom of the fermentor. When the fermentor is
swirled, the yeast will stay together as a large yeast cake. Some yeast is so flocculent that it can clog
openings and valves! High flocculators can require special attention to produce a well balanced beer. The
yeast will often need to be “roused” back into the beer by gently swirling the carboy, or with a commercial
fermentor, gently blowing CO2 into the bottom of the fermentor. High flocculation is usually associated
with lower attenuation and increased levels of diacetyl and esters. These compounds lend well to English
style ales. "

http://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/Flocculation_help.pdf

most people treat all yeast the same but you shouldn't

 

[milldoggy]

I did a split batch of my zombie dust, one with s04 and the other us05, s04 is hands down the better beer. I like it. I ferment at 64.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

Not a huge fan of US-04 for English ales. About to try Danstar Windsor instead of US-04 in an English pale ale as recommended by Graham Wheeler.

 

[AnthonyUK]

I wouldn't personally use Windsor in a Pale Ale but if you do just be aware of its low attenuation.
Your FG will be pretty high at around 1.020.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

I wouldn't personally use Windsor in a Pale Ale but if you do just be aware of its low attenuation.
Your FG will be pretty high at around 1.020.

Thanks for the info. Wheeler says that some people prefer the flavor profile of Danstar so thought I'd give it a try. Going to do the Timothy Taylor Landlord recipe with it. Have you used Brewlab yeast slopes?

 

[dad23ds]

From other HBT posts, I've made notes to ferment S04 at 63f or below. My experience: A porter I made before ferm control had that yeasty twang. For it, fermometer was 66-70. After I set up a freezer with temp control, I made a stout and fermented at 61 +/- 1. It came out great. That being said, I'll probably avoid it when I can.

 

[UndeadFred]

OK I am doing my first liquid yeast. A starter from a half of a vial of WLP028 which is roughly equivalent to Wyeast 1728 and the dry substitute is often S-04. Whereas S-04 smells like bad bubblegum.. The WLP028 smells so nice after only about 15 hours on a stir plate I want to drink the frickin starter. S-04 sucks. Can't be politically correct here.. Sorry..

 

[jwalk4]

I lourve me some S-04. Great yeast, IMO.

I ferment it at 63F (thermowell reading).

I had the temperature probe attached to the side of the carboy with a towel covering it. Twang is a good description. Is 66F too hot?

If I were you, I'd set my ambient temp to 59-60 in the fermenting fridge next time.

 

[tennesseean_87]

If you need to using a fining with S-04 there is possibly something amiss. It is one of the most flocculant yeasts I've used and normally drops bright with just a cold crash.
It does throw some esters but not too bad especially at the temp you used.
Don't give up on it as it is a great dried yeast in beer styles where an absolutely clean yeast profile is required.

I really like this yeast in English beers. It flocs well and I like the flavor. It also finishes a bit high, but I like in some cases, especially doing split batches as in the link in my sig. I have not found it to be absolutely clean, though. I've found a fairly pronounced English flavor profile in the beers I've done with it. I find US-05 much cleaner.

 

[UndeadFred]

I hate that bitter ester that a lot of you love. Sorry.. I tries S04 three times now and personally I wouldn't make bread with that crap let alone beer. I understand a lot but not how anyone can like that bitter flavor it puts off. And yes I even was very strict with sanitation and temperature control on one of the batches. OTOH, many people say that about Nottingham and it is one of my favorite yeasts...

 

[yugga]

Wow it sure seems like people are split on this yeast. The way mine tasted at the last sample and the previous time I used the it, I couldn't imagine anyone liking it. This makes me think it must "work" sometimes. From the comments it seems my temperature might have been a little high 66F, but Ozarks_Mountain_Brew mentioned something that got me thinking it might be something else.

US04 is a high flocculating yeast I was just reading this the other day, I'm quoting white labs website

"High flocculation is a characteristic of many English origin yeast strains. The yeast will begin to clump in
3-5 days, and drop to form a compact yeast cake at the bottom of the fermentor. When the fermentor is
swirled, the yeast will stay together as a large yeast cake. Some yeast is so flocculent that it can clog
openings and valves! High flocculators can require special attention to produce a well balanced beer. The
yeast will often need to be “roused” back into the beer by gently swirling the carboy, or with a commercial
fermentor, gently blowing CO2 into the bottom of the fermentor. High flocculation is usually associated
with lower attenuation and increased levels of diacetyl and esters. These compounds lend well to English
style ales. "

http://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/Flocculation_help.pdf

most people treat all yeast the same but you shouldn't

Is it possible that it flocculated before it cleaned up after itself, leaving an undesirable flavour? Should I rouse the yeast again? Never had much luck doing that though.

 

[AnthonyUK]

I have not found it to be absolutely clean, though. I've found a fairly pronounced English flavor profile in the beers I've done with it. I find US-05 much cleaner.

Oops. My post should have read 'where a clean profile isn't required'.
I hope this was clear from earlier posts that S-04 is quite estery which is a requirement in English styles.