Upright vs Chest

[Thorsbrew]

Hey guys,
I currently have a large chest freezer for kegs, now I need another for fermenting. I'm trying to decide between a chest or upright. Upright holds most of the benefits to me for fermenting (easier to get vessels into, siphoning is easier as the carboy isnt on floor level necessitating moving and disturbing the trub etc) but i have one big concern which is temperature uniformity/stratification.

I have an old regular fridge/freezer combo and it has very large temperature differences from the top and bottom of the fridge, as much as 10F difference. I put a fan in there to circulate the air and try to remove the difference and it made NO difference. Will I see the same issues with an upright freezer for fermentation? Especially considering i'll have put a table halfway up the freezer to be able to put carboys on the bottom and top as well. Temperature swings of more than a couple degrees are no good.

This is assuming that upright freezers cool the chamber the same way as my old refrigerator does? There is just one vent on the top of the fridge that blows air out, resulting in the 10F colder temps at the top. Whereas a chest freezer has the coils running the length of the freezer resulting in far more uniformity, especially with a fan in there as well.

I'd much prefer to keep my large chest freezer for kegs and use the unused space for keeping grains stored and fresh for a long time (got lots of extra space available in this 22-25cf unit). But if an upright proves too inefficient for temperature uniformity my other thought was to use my large chest freezer for fermenting and get another smaller chest freezer for my kegs. Though i'd rather not do that as id like to keep the additional space of the large chest freezer for grains. Grains stored at 37F should last a lot longer than stored at 67F.

Thoughts?

Thanks for reading

 

[TX_Brewing]

I prefer upright, temp difference shouldn't matter as you should measure the temp of your fermenting beer (or the side of the fermenter).

 

[Thorsbrew]

If there was only one fermenter in the freezer this would hold true. However i'll have fermenters on top and bottom, i cant measure a single fermenter, the whole unit must be uniform.

 

[Drk93TT]

I love my upright lager fridge. Plenty of room. Easy to meneuver kegs..bottles...etc around in found a commercial kenmore on craigslist for 60$

 

[oakbarn]

Depends on your fermentaion vessel. Lots of Cornys fit into a chest freezer vs upright if that is your vessel of choice. Carboy = Upright! Corny = chest.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]
I have an old regular fridge/freezer combo and it has very large temperature differences from the top and bottom of the fridge, as much as 10F difference. I put a fan in there to circulate the air and try to remove the difference and it made NO difference.[...]

Thoughts?

It's very hard to understand why a decent "stirring" fan had no effect on stratification.
I have a 120mm 12vdc fan running at 9vdc stirring my keezer and there is zero degrees difference between the air just below the lid and the air at the floor.
Maybe a bigger fan?

Otherwise...if you're dedicating a unit to fermentation, do yourself a humongous favor and go with a fridge. The lack of puddles alone is a big win.

I use a 17 cf top-freezer for fermentations and it gets down to 34°F easily for crashing.
And no condensation issues, ever...

Cheers!

 

[micraftbeer]

You've obviously got the "hot air rises" phenomenna affecting you more with an upright with a chest. But I wouldn't necessarily apply lessons learned from an upright fridge/freezer to an upright stand-alone freezer, which it sounds like you're considering buying.

With a side-by-side fridge/freezer, you get 1 or 2 little passageways from the freezer over to the fridge. You're more prone to temperature differences as you've got a large refrigerator space with "controlled leaks" in of very cold air.

Plus most fridge/freezers operate by controlling your freezer at a temperature, and your fridge temperature is just a by-product of your freezer operation. It takes cold air whenever through an adjustable gateway from the freezer to fridge. Bottom line, I think you'd be better off with an upright freezer than what you saw in the fridge side of a fridge/freezer combo.

 

[Thorsbrew]

It's very hard to understand why a decent "stirring" fan had no effect on stratification.
I have a 120mm 12vdc fan running at 9vdc stirring my keezer and there is zero degrees difference between the air just below the lid and the air at the floor.
Maybe a bigger fan?

Otherwise...if you're dedicating a unit to fermentation, do yourself a humongous favor and go with a fridge. The lack of puddles alone is a big win.

I use a 17 cf top-freezer for fermentations and it gets down to 34°F easily for crashing.
And no condensation issues, ever...

Cheers!

Cant say why i used this fan set to max (3000) rpms, so it moved pretty good air. I had jars of water in top and bottom, every measurement i took they were roughly 10F apart.

Also you mentioned you had a fan with no stratification but you said it was in your keezer (which i assume is a chest freezer?) if thats the case that's exactly what my question entailed. Since i said chest freezers are far more efficient in temperature uniformity because of their design.

And a fridge is not really an option to me, you could only fit a couple in a fridge and only on 1 level since the freezer section wastes all that space. I use silica gel and a fan and it keeps it dry in my chest freezer, so condensation isnt a concern.

 

[Thorsbrew]

You've obviously got the "hot air rises" phenomenna affecting you more with an upright with a chest. But I wouldn't necessarily apply lessons learned from an upright fridge/freezer to an upright stand-alone freezer, which it sounds like you're considering buying.

With a side-by-side fridge/freezer, you get 1 or 2 little passageways from the freezer over to the fridge. You're more prone to temperature differences as you've got a large refrigerator space with "controlled leaks" in of very cold air.

Plus most fridge/freezers operate by controlling your freezer at a temperature, and your fridge temperature is just a by-product of your freezer operation. It takes cold air whenever through an adjustable gateway from the freezer to fridge. Bottom line, I think you'd be better off with an upright freezer than what you saw in the fridge side of a fridge/freezer combo.

Thanks. But my "regular fridge" i said i was comparing to (and yes, wondering if i can draw a conclusion as to the inefficient temperature uniformity of it vs an upright freezer) is not a side by side but a top freezer design. Should have specified that, just seemed the most common to me.

 

[day_trippr]

[....]Also you mentioned you had a fan with no stratification but you said it was in your keezer (which i assume is a chest freezer?) if thats the case that's exactly what my question entailed. Since i said chest freezers are far more efficient in temperature uniformity because of their design.[...]

My chest freezer is a keezer - a beer dispensing appliance, not a fermentation chamber.
And I can tell you for a fact that a stock chest freezer will exhibit the second worst temperature stratification of any appliance (the worst will be an upright freezer).

They're even designed for that - the evaporator loop is located at the top of the chassis, allowing for the cold air to sink. If you don't stir that beyotch there can easily be a 20°F differential between the lid and the floor.

Vaya con Dios, but I'd opt for a fridge...and did

Cheers!

 

[Photopilot]

Picking up a carboy or whatever you ferment in out of a chest freezer really sucks. I have done it with 6 gallon glass carboys and was afraid of breaking the carboy, each time. I was afraid of breaking my back when I did it with 12 gallons in a sanke. I guess a plastic fermenter would be less onerous but its plastic.

So my preference would be an upright fridge, even better a freezer, provided it could hold at least two of whatever I ferment in. Otherwise I would go with a chest freezer and let my back pay the price.

 

[Thorsbrew]

My chest freezer is a keezer - a beer dispensing appliance, not a fermentation chamber.
And I can tell you for a fact that a stock chest freezer will exhibit the second worst temperature stratification of any appliance (the worst will be an upright freezer).

They're even designed for that - the evaporator loop is located at the top of the chassis, allowing for the cold air to sink. If you don't stir that beyotch there can easily be a 20°F differential between the lid and the floor.

Vaya con Dios, but I'd opt for a fridge...and did

Cheers!

Yes, i know the difference between a keezer and a fermentation vessel I was referring to the fact that i was comparing my upright top freezer/fridge unit (and how non-uniform its temp is) to an upright only freezer and if i could compare the 2. Not to a chest freezer (which is very different) which is what you compared saying your fan keeps things uniform.

I also have a fan in my chest freezer and things are very uniform in there. In my mind a chest freezer would be far more uniform as there is 1: minimal vertical space for stratification, mostly horizontal and 2: the coils that deliver cold into the vessel run the length of the chest freezer (on mine on both sides and ends). Whereas on an upright (at least my fridge/freezer combo) has only 1 vent (at the top) blowing out cold air.

I just need to know if im going to encounter the same horrible uniformity with an upright freezer as i do with my upright fridge/top freezer (that i use for other stuff). I really would prefer the upright for saving floor space, ease of use and other stuff. But if i can expect similar uniformity issues i'll stick to chest freezers.

 

[Thorsbrew]

Picking up a carboy or whatever you ferment in out of a chest freezer really sucks. I have done it with 6 gallon glass carboys and was afraid of breaking the carboy, each time. I was afraid of breaking my back when I did it with 12 gallons in a sanke. I guess a plastic fermenter would be less onerous but its plastic.

So my preference would be an upright fridge, even better a freezer, provided it could hold at least two of whatever I ferment in. Otherwise I would go with a chest freezer and let my back pay the price.

Yeah i agree there. I used the chest freezer for fermenting in once and it did kinda suck. I ferment 5 gallons in plastic carboys so its not the worst thing in the world (i can curl that much with 1 arm) but its still a pita indeed. Especially when i need to lift it out for siphoning and be very careful not to disturb the trub.

Which is why i really would prefer to go with an upright if i can figure out this stratification thing.

 

[day_trippr]

My point wrt chest freezer was it doesn't take much of a stirring force to eliminate stratification. I'm still surprised at your take on your fridge.

One point that I don't recall being discussed: how many brews do you expect to be fermenting at any given time?

I can fit a pair of 6.5g carboys in my 17cf top-freezer fridge (the mate is my cold-conditioning/carbing fridge).

If you're going to do more than that your options likely dwindle rapidly - I'm not sure one could even fit a third carboy in a 20-something cf fridge.
At that point an upright freezer might be the only option...

Cheers!

 

[Thorsbrew]

Yeah i agree it doesnt take much to eliminate stratification in a chest freezer, but that isnt what we are talking about.

Adding to what i said about my fan in my fridge i attached the fan to the top (where the vent expels cold air) and pointed it straight down. Much to my surprise of the half dozen times i tested the water temps in the jars over a week the temp never changed much at all from my pre fan tests. Around 35F on top and 45F on bottom.

As for my size requirements i wouldnt want it to fit less than 4 6.5g plastic carboys. An upright freezer could fit anywhere from 4 to 8 carboys. My current chest freezer can fit 9.

 

[The_Bishop]

Did you have the fan running all the time?

 

[Thorsbrew]

Yes of course.

But again in case this wasn't clear i'm just talking about my fridge/top freezer refrigerator and seeing if i can expect similar in an upright freezer only.

 

[SPav]

Did you have the fan powered by the interior light circuit?

 

[DoctorMemory]

Fair warning: most "commercial quality" upright freezers have cooling coils running through the shelves (at least one of them). This may limit the number of FVs you put in there, since you can't adjust those shelves to make more room. Just something to keep in mind as you're shopping.

 

[brick_haus]

$.02...If you are fermenting at two levels inside of your fridge, then due to the cold air being "blown" into it from the top will expectedly do what you are describing. I believe that the chest freezer is your best option.
You seem to have proven that to yourself, listen to the results.

 

[55x11]

$.02...If you are fermenting at two levels inside of your fridge, then due to the cold air being "blown" into it from the top will expectedly do what you are describing. I believe that the chest freezer is your best option.
You seem to have proven that to yourself, listen to the results.

I agree. I prefer chest freezers. Regular fridge (and most upright units are fridges, not freezers) may struggle to get down to 30F (useful for cold-crashing) and chest freezers are more energy efficient, and provide more space. Yes, loading/unloading carboys is a bit more tricky with chest freezers but if you place carboy inside a milk crate it is much easier.

 

[Jawbox0]

I'm glad I went with my chest freezer. I find that the compressor really doesn't run much compared to the fridge I was using. I ferment in buckets with a handle, so maneuvering them in isn't much of a hassle. Temps are nice and even throughout, though I did add a small USB powered fan.

 

[Thorsbrew]

Fair warning: most "commercial quality" upright freezers have cooling coils running through the shelves (at least one of them). This may limit the number of FVs you put in there, since you can't adjust those shelves to make more room. Just something to keep in mind as you're shopping.

Yep i knew that, thanks. However i'm assuming only the ones with metal shelves are that? If so those are the ones i've been avoiding although they only make up maybe 10-20% of the upright freezers i've seen on craigslist. Most are plastic shelves.

$.02...If you are fermenting at two levels inside of your fridge, then due to the cold air being "blown" into it from the top will expectedly do what you are describing. I believe that the chest freezer is your best option.
You seem to have proven that to yourself, listen to the results.

I suppose you are right i was just hoping for experienced replies from owners of both chest and upright freezers to give their experience. Or at least from upright owners (as in measurements of temp uniformity).

Did you have the fan powered by the interior light circuit?

No to the wall.

 

[passedpawn]

Did you have the fan powered by the interior light circuit?

Wait.... are you trying to say the light turns off when I close the door?

 

[passedpawn]

I have a 14.8 cuft freezer that I get six 6.5g carboys into. If you have aspirations of that kind, you'll need the horiz freezer. Pic below is 6g carboys, but the new ones are skinnier/taller and 6.5g (fit much better).

 

[Thorsbrew]

Yeah i've got a 22-25CF (measured myself...in official measurements does one deduct the compressor hump in the measurement?) that will fit 9 carboys like that. I just found another chest on craigslist a bit smaller, perhaps the size of yours or a little smaller for $120. Not as good as the $120 i paid for my 22CF unit so i'll try talking him down, but still decent. I just hate to take up so much more floor space.

Then i'll have to decide big chest for kegs+grain storage and smaller chest for fermenting, or big for fermenting+grain storage at 67F and smaller for kegs. I liked the idea of having the grains at that temp, they should last much longer.

PS: Oh and i've always wondered does it make much difference having the units (kegs, carboys whatever) touch the side? Those coils on the sides get really cold.

 

[brick_haus]

Yep i knew that, thanks. However i'm assuming only the ones with metal shelves are that? If so those are the ones i've been avoiding although they only make up maybe 10-20% of the upright freezers i've seen on craigslist. Most are plastic shelves.





I suppose you are right i was just hoping for experienced replies from owners of both chest and upright freezers to give their experience. Or at least from upright owners (as in measurements of temp uniformity).





No to the wall.

I do own both. I can only use the lower level of the upright. Too cold up top with the fan blowing down on the top one when i tried it.

 

[Thorsbrew]

Chest freezer it is then.

Now im kicking myself for not buying both of the chest freezers when i had the chance. The guy i bought the 22CF unit for $120 had another the same size, he would have given me both for $200 but i passed as i had (at the time) made up my mind my ferm chamber was going to be an upright.

Kick kick kick

 

[The_Bishop]

I've got an upright freezer. Works like a champ. In fact, when I converted it to be controlled by the STC-1000, I wired the internal fan (Mine has a separate coil in the back wall, shelves come out) to a toggle switch, so I can keep it running all the time. I have no temperature stratification issues. I can (and have) put 4 6 gallon PET carboys in it at the same time with all of them at the same temperature.

 

[Thorsbrew]

Welp picked up a decently sized chest freezer. Guy just dropped it off for $100 delivered. Just quickly dropped a 6.5g big mouth bubbler in there and it should fit 5 or 6 of them (not including the compressor hump).

Thanks guys

 

[oakbarn]

It is a PITA removing from a Chest Freezer and when I used Carboys (NEVER AGAIN) in a Chest Freezer, I Cold Crashed, Removed and put high enough for Siphon to a Keg afcter the Trub settled. If I Ferment in a Carboy now (rarely), I use just for Ales in my "Cold room" and they are on a Table so I can Siphon, but I can only crash to 50 degrees in the summer with a Cool Bot and Window Unit. I have 3 conicals and am setting up my latest one with a BCS 462 and Glycol.

 

[Thorsbrew]

Its not THAT bad. 5 gallons in a plastic carboy isnt the end of the world heavy. And either way i can siphon half of it right from where it is then gently move it to the compressor hump for the rest.

Though now that you make me think of it im thinking about putting the chest freezer up on a few pieces of wood so i can easily entirely siphon right from where its at.

 

[passedpawn]

It is a PITA removing from a Chest Freezer and when I used Carboys (NEVER AGAIN) in a Chest Freezer, I Cold Crashed, Removed and put high enough for Siphon to a Keg afcter the Trub settled. If I Ferment in a Carboy now (rarely), I use just for Ales in my "Cold room" and they are on a Table so I can Siphon, but I can only crash to 50 degrees in the summer with a Cool Bot and Window Unit. I have 3 conicals and am setting up my latest one with a BCS 462 and Glycol.

I'm oldish and I can haul the 6g up and out by the neck.

If it REALLY bothers you, just push the beer out of the carboys with CO2, right into your keg. No lifting. I used to do that but meh it's just easier to lift them out and siphon.

But the truth is, there is always going to be some lifting in the homebrew hobby. I don't know how the wimmen do it. No way my wife is lugging around a 50+ lb carboy.

 

[Jawbox0]

I forgot to mention, the other thing I love most about my chest fermenter. I can roll the whole thing under the workbench!

I really don't have the wall space for a full size upright in the garage. The chest fermentation chamber, mounted on a platform with casters, will tuck just under my workbench with about an inch to spare. It does mean that I need to roll it out to work on it, but it's a good trade to have a little more space in the garage for tools, benches, and all the other stuff.