Upgrading to All Grain - Need Advice on My Planned Process

[Jiffster]

Hey Folks,
Putting the final touches on my shopping list for my venture into all grain from extract brewing.

Asside from fermentation and bottling equipment, I have a 5 gallon brew kettle and I'm going to be picking up and 11 gallon Bayou Classic with a sight glass and valve and a 10 gallon Igloo MLT.

It will be gravity fed for now and I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around what the process will look like.

Some of the questions running through my head are:

1) Will I regret not getting a 2nd cooler to use as my HLT?
2) Will it be best if I put the boil kettle up higher to start so I can drain the hot water into the MLT and then move it down lower to drain the wort into the kettle for the boil?
3) How would I best incorporate the old 5 gallon kettle into the process, or should I?

I'm concerned with moving all the pots, MLT and burner around (I have 1 burner).

Is there a better way I should consider without getting into a pump now?

Should I get a pump?

I want to keep my expenses low but I don't want my process to be extra difficult to save a few bucks.

Looking for any tips, ideas, suggestions, etc.

I'll be brewing in my garage.

Appreciate it folks!

 

[brewshki]

Subscribed. Lots of the same questions.

 

[BeerFst]

I think you'll be fine with what you have. You could use the 5G to hold the first runnings and then heat up your sparge water in the larger pot. I just did my first all grain this weekend, I also gravity fed and want to keep cost low. my current equip is

~7.5g aluminum turkey fryer pot
15 g MegaPot 1.2 with temp gauge and ball valve
52qt(i think) rectangular cooler mlt (didnt get the correct parts, so I had to rig it up the outlet in my own way, more below)
turkey fryer propane burner
5g paint strainer bag
digital thermometer


-I started ~5g of water in the 15gMP getting up to strike temp of 165 (for 10lbs of grain at 152). I hadnt calibrated the gauge yet and wanted to compare with the digital therm reading (it ended up being a few degrees high)

-Started ~1.5g boiling on a smaller pot on the stove inside

-When the strike water approached temp, i dumped the 1.5g boiling into the MLT to preheat

-Once the strike water hit temp. I dumped the preheat water out of the mlt, and I placed it just under the ball valve and emptied just over 3g into the MLT.

-Added the grains while stirring them in (brew buddy needed)

-Checked temp with digital therm, added some more of the strike water to compensate. Was 1.5 degrees lower than expected.

-closed the lid, and wrapped in old sleeping bag for good measure.

-waited 30 minutes. collected ~6g into the 7.5g aluminum pot and started heating to sparge temp 170

-60 minute mash complete, measured temp, to my surprise had lost maybe a half degree so i was stoked. collected first runnings in the 15gMP by placing the mlt on a chair

-dumped most of the sparge water into the MLT, stirred and let it sit. I used a smaller pot with a handle to empty the first several gallons into the MLT so i didnt have to lift the heavy pot full of hot water.

-after 10 minutes. collected the batch sparge into the 15gMP for a total volume of 7.5g. I also had not checked my boil off rate before hand, and guessed at 2g. i overestimated by almost half. it was probably closer to 1.2, which i found funny.

-started the usual process. using the time to dump the spent grain and generally clean up

- dropped hydrometer, it broke. didnt check the OG, so i cant comment on my efficiency. I didnt check pH, didnt add salts, and I dont temp control my ferms right now other than keeping it in a colder room, these are all improvements i will make on the way.

-its bubbling away as we speak



Notes on my MLT experience:
As i mentioned above I didnt get the right parts at HD for the conversion. I also could not find a ball valve that wasnt half flare, and didnt feel like finding the other parts. My wife had just called and wondered where i was, and considering i had just spent 60 frustrating minutes in HD looking for parts anyway, i left.
I found out that i could shove a 1/4ID tube into the plastic outlet of the cooler and it held water just fine. I made sure the end of the tube sat on top of the cooler, and wah la, it was gonna work.
Until of course we tried to drain the first runnings. Since i had just stuck a tube in the front (and couldnt pull it through all the way) i had no filter inside the MLT. My plan was to use the 5g paint strainer to strain the outlet, however the line was plugged, couldnt get anything through. Tried to blow out the line, nothing. it was stuck. We were about to dump the whole thing into the 5g bag and squeeze, when i pulled the tube from the outlet. WINNER! i placed the paint strainer in a colander and strained out the grains that came through which was about a cup. Repeated the same technique with the sparge. Next brew I will have received the correct SS fittings from online and hopefully wont have this issue.

 

[BeerFst]

I also discovered my temp gauge was not installed correctly and had a small leak just as i took the pot off the burner at the end. We managed to lose no more than a few drops before it became serious, and dumped the wort into the 7.5g pot to finish cooling. The recipe called for a flameout addition and hopstand for 10 minutes, but I decided to do the hopstand at 180 instead.

because of the gauge leak, and a possible issue with the gauge itslef, the wort was down to 160 when i added the 2oz hopstand.

Not terribly concerned tho, It may not be quite the same but should be just fine.

 

[MagicMatt]

You didn't say how to plan to sparge. If you are fly sparging, then yes you'll likely want to get another cooler (5 gallons should be fine for 5-7 gallon batches, which it looks like you're sticking to with the 11gal kettle). This will help keep your sparge water at temp while sparging, something a standard kettle will not be able to do without applied heat. When doing gravity fed systems, it's a bit precarious to have a burner going 6 ft. in the air.

If you plan to batch sparge, you can use your 5gal kettle to heat your sparge volumes, and collect in your larger kettle.

 

[Jiffster]

You didn't say how to plan to sparge. If you are fly sparging, then yes you'll likely want to get another cooler (5 gallons should be fine for 5-7 gallon batches, which it looks like you're sticking to with the 11gal kettle). This will help keep your sparge water at temp while sparging, something a standard kettle will not be able to do without applied heat. When doing gravity fed systems, it's a bit precarious to have a burner going 6 ft. in the air.

If you plan to batch sparge, you can use your 5gal kettle to heat your sparge volumes, and collect in your larger kettle.

My plan is to batch sparge.

 

[Sparge]

Biggest thing to do is just relax and plan it out. I have never done an extract, so I can't help you with what to do differently. However, I did find this useful checklist that helps a lot in getting the steps down:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/com.brewersfriend.images/brewersfriend_checklist_allgrain.pdf

 

[MagicMatt]

My plan is to batch sparge.

In that case you should be fine with what you have. Your brew day should look something like this:

- Heat strike water for mash in large kettle
- Transfer strike water to MLT
- Add grains to MLT and mash for appropriate amount of time
- Begin to heat first sparge volume in 5 gal kettle
- Collect first runnings in large kettle
- Add sparge water to MLT
- Heat second sparge volume in 5 gal kettle
- Collect 2nd runnings in large kettle
- Add 2nd sparge water to MLT
- Collect 3rd runnings in large kettle
- Boil


Although I fly-sparge, I created this Gantt chart a while ago to streamline my process:

 

[Jiffster]

Biggest thing to do is just relax and plan it out. I have never done an extract, so I can't help you with what to do differently. However, I did find this useful checklist that helps a lot in getting the steps down:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/com.brewersfriend.images/brewersfriend_checklist_allgrain.pdf

This will be for my step up to all grain. Excellent info. Thanks!

In that case you should be fine with what you have. Your brew day should look something like this:



- Heat strike water for mash in large kettle

- Transfer strike water to MLT

- Add grains to MLT and mash for appropriate amount of time

- Begin to heat first sparge volume in 5 gal kettle

- Collect first runnings in large kettle

- Add sparge water to MLT

- Heat second sparge volume in 5 gal kettle

- Collect 2nd runnings in large kettle

- Add 2nd sparge water to MLT

- Collect 3rd runnings in large kettle

- Boil





Although I fly-sparge, I created this Gantt chart a while ago to streamline my process:

Great info and advice, thank you!

Sounds like my brew day effort could me made easier if I have another 10 gallon cooler to use as a HLT. Instead of heating up multiple batches of sparge water. (Or 5 gallon?)

What's your thoughts?

Or maybe I should consider fly sparge?

 

[schematix]

Buy 2 pumps. Money well spent not having to worry about heavy lifts or having enough head pressure to transfer.

 

[cjbalough]

I'm in the same stage of the game, but smaller 5 gal tun. I've done some partial mash partial boil batches with a single batch sparge (read up as I don't think there is a need to do more). Just stepping up to be able to do full boils and all grain. I plan on using both my original 5g kettle and my new 10 gal one. Figure if I use the small one to heat the mash and sparge water I can collect the first wort in the big one and have it heating when I collect the second runnings into a bucket or the small kettle. I like the KISS principle and single batch sparging is just that. If I want a higher gravity beer than the 5 gal cooler can do I'll add extract or other fermentables to get where I need to be.

 

[z-bob]

You don't have to start out with 5 gallon batches. When I went all grain, I did 3 gallon batches with my old equipment. (BIAB) Now I'm doing 4 gallons but I have to watch the boil pretty close. Pretty soon I'll buy an 8+ gallon kettle so I can do 5 gallons. Baby steps.

 

[Dixon9717]

I started AG not long ago. Got a 10g MT and a 15g BK. I batch sparge and use my old 5g and 7g BK for strike/sparge water. Kinda sucks lifting and pouring all that water sometimes. Baby steps. Just invested in Kegging so it's going to be awhile for anymore upgrades

 

[govner1]

Hey Folks,

Putting the final touches on my shopping list for my venture into all grain from extract brewing.



Asside from fermentation and bottling equipment, I have a 5 gallon brew kettle and I'm going to be picking up and 11 gallon Bayou Classic with a sight glass and valve and a 10 gallon Igloo MLT.



It will be gravity fed for now and I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around what the process will look like.



Some of the questions running through my head are:



1) Will I regret not getting a 2nd cooler to use as my HLT?

2) Will it be best if I put the boil kettle up higher to start so I can drain the hot water into the MLT and then move it down lower to drain the wort into the kettle for the boil?

3) How would I best incorporate the old 5 gallon kettle into the process, or should I?



I'm concerned with moving all the pots, MLT and burner around (I have 1 burner).



Is there a better way I should consider without getting into a pump now?



Should I get a pump?



I want to keep my expenses low but I don't want my process to be extra difficult to save a few bucks.



Looking for any tips, ideas, suggestions, etc.



I'll be brewing in my garage.



Appreciate it folks!

I started my brewing doing AG w/ a fairly simple, gravity feed system. I was doing 5 gal batches but you can easily scale up volumes to meet your needs.
My biggest & best investment was a Blichmann burner w/leg extensions. Next I had an 8 gal SS Update International kettle & 2 5 gal Rubbermaid coolers w/ ball valves and a copper manifold in the MLT.
I heated my strike water & transferred to my MLT for mash in. Then i refilled my kettle and heated my sparge water while the mash was under way. I overheated Agee degrees & transferred to my HLT (2nd cooler) to hold for sparge.
After draining my first running a to my BK & applying some heat I added the running from the sparge & started my boil.
I then gravity feed my wort through a CFC to my fermentor.

 

[JayDog]

I just recently started brewing and went AG after a few batches. I have a 9 gallon Bayou pot and it's fine for low abv beers. I just brewed an 8% pumpkin beer and I was at the top of the kettle. You're good with the 11 gallon.
My mlt is a 48 qt. Square igloo cooler. Diy pvc false bottom. It works fine but after 3 batches I quickly realized I should have went with the 10 gallon igloo round cooler. Northern brewer has a false bottom for a decent price. (cheaper than the time it took to gather pvc and cut slits in it.)
My HLT is a Rubbermaid 10 gallon round cooler.
My system is all gravity fed. Sure a pump would make things much smoother but I would brew a few batches with your new system and decide how badly you want one.

You can definitely brew fine with the setup you plan on using but I would look into getting another round 10 gallon cooler for the hlt. I like having my sparge water at temp and ready.
I batch sparge spend a little more money on grain to make up for the lower efficiency. Simple.

 

[Jiffster]

So for a typical 5 gallon batch (is there such a thing) I would need about 8.5 gallons of water:
~3.25 for Strike
~5.25 for Sparge

If I am using my 5 gallon pot to heat the water while my first runnings are in my 11 gallon kettle, I would need to boil the remaining 5.25 gallons for sparge in 2 separate batches.

Seems like this would become tiresome knowing there is an easier way?

I know I might be overthinking this but I want to avoid getting set-up only to realize after 1-2 batches that I wish I had went a slightly different route.

 

[MagicMatt]

So for a typical 5 gallon batch (is there such a thing) I would need about 8.5 gallons of water:
~3.25 for Strike
~5.25 for Sparge

In my experience, my strike water is rarely less than 4 gallons. A 'typical' 5 gallon batch would be anywhere from 12-15 lbs of grain. Using a ratio of 1.25 qt/lb, which is the lowest (thickest) you'd want to go, that would mean anywhere from 3.75 - 4.75 gallons for strike (or more, as more is better than less).

This would leave anywhere from 3.75 - 4.5 gallons needed for sparge, which should fit fine in your 5 gallon kettle. Remember that you're not boiling the sparge addition; it only needs to get to 168°-170°F. You mentioned not wanting to heat 2 batches of sparge water, but how do you plan to keep the 2nd batch hot enough while you're draining the first batch? You'll have to fire up the burner for at least a few minutes to get the remaining water to temp. IMO it's just easier to do two separate batches, as it will take substantially longer for the first batch to reach temp if the volume is doubled. However, to each their own.

Bottom line is that you have everything you need to try it out. If you don't like it, go buy a cooler to use as a HLT.

 

[Jiffster]

.......

This would leave anywhere from 3.75 - 4.5 gallons needed for sparge, which should fit fine in your 5 gallon kettle. Remember that you're not boiling the sparge addition; it only needs to get to 168°-170°F. You mentioned not wanting to heat 2 batches of sparge water, but how do you plan to keep the 2nd batch hot enough while you're draining the first batch? You'll have to fire up the burner for at least a few minutes to get the remaining water to temp. IMO it's just easier to do two separate batches, as it will take substantially longer for the first batch to reach temp if the volume is doubled. However, to each their own.

Bottom line is that you have everything you need to try it out. If you don't like it, go buy a cooler to use as a HLT.

But if my sparge only requires under 5 gallons, wouldn't I be able to do that in 1 batch after the first runnings?

Makes sense regarding trying it out.

 

[barnaclebob]

Do BIAB. I made the switch from traditional all grain brewing to full volume mash BIAB and it is so much easier. Its cheaper and takes up less space in your house too.

 

[BeerFst]

So for a typical 5 gallon batch (is there such a thing) I would need about 8.5 gallons of water:
~3.25 for Strike
~5.25 for Sparge

If I am using my 5 gallon pot to heat the water while my first runnings are in my 11 gallon kettle, I would need to boil the remaining 5.25 gallons for sparge in 2 separate batches.

Seems like this would become tiresome knowing there is an easier way?

I know I might be overthinking this but I want to avoid getting set-up only to realize after 1-2 batches that I wish I had went a slightly different route.

my previous response was probably a little long.

I suggest you put first runnings in 5g pot first, heat strike in 11g. single batch sparge with all sparge water. move first runnings into 11g. run second runnings

or start with smaller than a 5g batch, as was suggested above

Edit:Glossary oops

 

[MagicMatt]

But if my sparge only requires under 5 gallons, wouldn't I be able to do that in 1 batch after the first runnings?

Makes sense regarding trying it out.

Yes you could. I don't batch sparge so don't take this as gospel, but I was under the impression that 2 batch sparges was better than a single one (better efficiency). Perhaps someone who batch sparges can chime in on if this is true or not.

I suggest you put first runnings in 5g pot first, heat strike in 11g. single batch sparge with all strike water. move first runnings into 11g. run second runnings

or start with smaller than a 5g batch, as was suggested above

This could work too if you do have too much sparge water to fit in the 5 gallon kettle. Though BeerFst please watch your terminology; you're confusing strike water with sparge water. Strike water is simply the mash water before you dough in. In both instances in the quote, 'strike' should be 'sparge'.

 

[christyle]

Magic Matt has it right, other than slight debate on the split sparge.

I had a 7.5 gal pot and a ~3.5 gal pot when i started. I got 2 10gal coolers thinking I needed them both and was going to fly sparge. I quickly realized there was no real benefit to me to go through the extra hassle of a fly sparge. I made a stand tall enough to hold my MT above my boil kettle. As it is now, here's the process:

- Heat the strike water, dump it in the MT, let it stabalize a few minutes, dump in grain, stir, sit a minute and measure temp to see if i need hot water/ice.
- While the mash converts, I heat sparge water in my BK, then transfer to the HLT cooler. If I had a big enough pot, I wouldnt need the HLT.
- When mash is done, drain into BK sitting on burner, and start heating it.
- When MT is empty, move it to the ground and dump in full sparge, place back on stand and stir, sit, then 15 mins later, drain into near boiling BK.

If your 5 gal isn't enough for a sparge, I would just up your mash volume a little to give a smaller sparge. I see a pump as completely unnecessary for my setup, and don't want to create a more complicated setup yet. If I had a big enough pot to hold the sparge, I wouldn't need the HLT, as it only holds water for about 5 minutes and im done with it. Being insulated doesn't matter, as sparge temp seems to be not nearly as important from my findings, and i'd only drop a few degrees anyway. I tried a split sparge and saw negligible difference for the extra time and effort it took.

Next on my list is a larger boil kettle, as i'm always boiling over and having to hold extra runnings to top off later. This 7.5 gal pot will be my new HLT and I'll give my buddy my HLT cooler to convert it to a MT for his forray into AG brewing.

That's my .02 from someone who just did the same move you're contemplating.

 

[Jiffster]

Lots of great advice that will help me now and as I grow.

I placed an order with Bobby today for an 11g kettle w/ball valve and sight glass, 10g Igloo MLT, some hose and cam lock, brushes and a mash paddle.

Going the simple route and learn the process and expand from there as needed.

Again, a sincere thanks for all the detailed responses.

I'm sure you'll here from me soon as I delve into my first all grain batch!