Upgrading the brew shed - adding 240v - go 30amps or 50amps?
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applescrap
Be the ball!
Well you are missing a hot tub and 3 elements! Jk idk ch1t, i decided ultimately on 30 amp gfci breaker ran to plug. But if you are rocking lights, air cond., stereo, 3 elements, pumps you probably will want a big setup, i didnt want to splash out too much. I figure its like a ball of string then how long do you want it. Dvd player, flat screens, a real sweet shed im jealous now. Fridges, keezers, do it up cheers.
And in case i make no sense to anyone sorry not great with electric understanding
And in case i make no sense to anyone sorry not great with electric understanding
3 freezers (I forget the cubic feet, but 14.7, 11.x, 7.x? Something like that)
1 refrigerator/Freezer
1mini fridg that is used for soda when I do soda, but I usually bring it inside the house.
Lighting (led so whatever)
Computer
Electrical for pumps, etc
Future to behold:
Possible 30 or 50 amp heating element
60 amp tankless water heater.
Tower of Power
Air conditioner or Swamp Cooler
30amp access for my RV
120v 15amp Feed for my future greenhouse
*Shrug* I guess I'll brew beer somewhere in there...
Bilsch
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I put a 4000 watt (technically 3840) grid tie solar system on the house in 2010 and it's been working quietly eliminating my electric bill ever since. 16 panels is just about right for a single family as long as you heat the house on something else.
It was a decent deal with the Federal 30% tax credit, state credit of $500 and the power company kicked in another $6000. Lots of fun to see the meter run backwards however in my crappy state they don't pay you for any excess you put in. I think in California that have to pay you for excess. So if you go big enough you get a check instead of a bill.
It was a decent deal with the Federal 30% tax credit, state credit of $500 and the power company kicked in another $6000. Lots of fun to see the meter run backwards however in my crappy state they don't pay you for any excess you put in. I think in California that have to pay you for excess. So if you go big enough you get a check instead of a bill.
I believe in California, its county based. Our neighbor friend has a sufficient solar system in the negative and he was complaining that he doesn't get a check...
applescrap
Be the ball!
Yep thats what was missing, you need the big big panel it sounds like. Awesome set up im envious
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If I add a 125amp sub panel, should I increase the house main?? (This seems to make a kinda obvious sense, but you know, I can't take things for granted anymore).
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GE Model # TLM1212CCUP Internet # 202046233 Store SKU # 515883 PowerMark Gold 125 AMP 12-Space 24-Circuit Indoor Main Lug Circuit Breaker Panel
I need a bump on this :
Do I upgrade the main box too? It's currently at 200 amps and that's the max the box will supply. Hmmm maybe the question to ask is:
How do I measure how many Amps I pull on a regular basis??
you should be fine with that 200 amp main service, unless you have some massive home with massive a/c requirements. or run a bunch of other large electrical stuff on a regular basis like welders, air compressors, etc. or have all electric heat or something like that.
for comparison, my home is about 3500 square feet with a/c, electric clothes dryer, electric oven, electric brew panel and electric sauna. everything else is gas. i have a 200 amp service and have no worries about its capacity. that being said, i'm not about to boil wort, dry clothes, bake a turkey and sit in the sauna on a 100 degree day, all at the same time.
for comparison, my home is about 3500 square feet with a/c, electric clothes dryer, electric oven, electric brew panel and electric sauna. everything else is gas. i have a 200 amp service and have no worries about its capacity. that being said, i'm not about to boil wort, dry clothes, bake a turkey and sit in the sauna on a 100 degree day, all at the same time.
On Electric... We have a swamp cooler, dishwasher, refrigerator, clothes washer [he], microwave [1500watt], well pump, and 2 computers that are always on.
On propane: Water heater, stove, clothes dryer[he].
We have two space heaters that pull 1000~1500 watts set at a mild 68 during the winter at night.
Main source of heat is wood burning stove.
Looks like the case is moving that I should be alright
i'm not about to boil wort, dry clothes, bake a turkey and sit in the sauna on a 100 degree day, all at the same time.
Well, sir, you're just not trying hard enough
Thanks for the info!
I measured the distance from the panel to the shed.
-tracing the edge of the yard and elbowing over to the shed is 130 feet.
-taking the shortest route, going through the back lawn that has irrigation installed in it: 90 feet.
shaving 40' in cable and pipe that can support 100 amps will save a good chunk of cash that can be used to buy other things for the project.
Is there any problems running cable pipes under the irrigation system code wise?
Thanks everyone.
-tracing the edge of the yard and elbowing over to the shed is 130 feet.
-taking the shortest route, going through the back lawn that has irrigation installed in it: 90 feet.
shaving 40' in cable and pipe that can support 100 amps will save a good chunk of cash that can be used to buy other things for the project.
Is there any problems running cable pipes under the irrigation system code wise?
Thanks everyone.
no worries, assuming your depth is good. the inside of a buried conduit is considered a wet environment per code so with the properly rated conductors, all good, your electrician week let you know what you need to do.
Beernip
Well-Known Member
You're just going to have to do a bunch more hand digging around the irrigation pipes.
The electrician came over and we have a game plan!
We will be running 125amps to the brewshed.
We will be going 50 amps 240 GFCI (although he was worried that the heating element which pulls about 46 amps (so I read) tripping the GFCI...).
There will be at least 4 isolated 120v 20amp ports inside, 2 isolated 120v 20 amp ports in the ceiling (for the negative pressure room, swamp, cooler, and lighting), 1 120v outdoor (greenhouse), and 1 30 amp 120v outdoor (RV).
I've got a shopping list that I will begin pricing tonight, a 90' trench to dig, irrigation to bypass, oh and summer is right around the corner... lol Anyone want to help me dig for $10 an hour and beer??
We will be running 125amps to the brewshed.
We will be going 50 amps 240 GFCI (although he was worried that the heating element which pulls about 46 amps (so I read) tripping the GFCI...).
There will be at least 4 isolated 120v 20amp ports inside, 2 isolated 120v 20 amp ports in the ceiling (for the negative pressure room, swamp, cooler, and lighting), 1 120v outdoor (greenhouse), and 1 30 amp 120v outdoor (RV).
I've got a shopping list that I will begin pricing tonight, a 90' trench to dig, irrigation to bypass, oh and summer is right around the corner... lol Anyone want to help me dig for $10 an hour and beer??
You can calculate it from your power bill. Find the total kWh usage for the month. Multiply that by 1000 to convert to Wh. Divide that number by 720h in a month. That is your average connected load in Watts. Now divide by 240V and you have your average current draw. I bet it's way less than 10A. I am drinking beer so my maths may not be at optimum but it's something like that.
The electrician came over and we have a game plan!
We will be running 125amps to the brewshed.
We will be going 50 amps 240 GFCI (although he was worried that the heating element which pulls about 46 amps (so I read) tripping the GFCI...).
There will be at least 4 isolated 120v 20amp ports inside, 2 isolated 120v 20 amp ports in the ceiling (for the negative pressure room, swamp, cooler, and lighting), 1 120v outdoor (greenhouse), and 1 30 amp 120v outdoor (RV).
I've got a shopping list that I will begin pricing tonight, a 90' trench to dig, irrigation to bypass, oh and summer is right around the corner... lol Anyone want to help me dig for $10 an hour and beer??
Sounds like a good plan. I'm an electrician. I only have 100A to my brewshop. I'm kinda jealous now
. Consider aluminum wire for the panel feeder. I did mine direct burial aluminum. No conduit and much cheaper than copper.@lschiavo can you show me a product on Homedepot.com that would cover the 125 amp feed from the main box in aluminum? Racking up the bill here, need to consider some costs...
I'm wondering is 2/0 copper matched amp for amp with AL 2/0
Racking up the bill here, need to consider some costs...I'm wondering is 2/0 copper matched amp for amp with AL 2/0
@lschiavo can you show me a product on Homedepot.com that would cover the 125 amp feed from the main box in aluminum?
I'm wondering is 2/0 copper matched amp for amp with AL 2/0
This would work: http://m.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-2-0-2-0-2-0-1-Balck-Stranded-Al-USE-MHF-Cable-28713601/202316460
The 4-wire cable is called URD. You could also use individual USE conductors which can be easier to pull through conduit. Home depot pricing is usually pretty good but it wouldn't hurt to see if your electrician can do better.
No. the ampacity of copper and aluminum are different. Aluminum generally needs to be a size or two bigger.
On the topic of USE:
I found this listing for USE Al 2/0
And this chart that shows amperage based on material
So if I buy the 500ft big spool (I need to cover a distance of about 90'), I could use this one wire to made the proper connections...? I'm sold if this is the case. CU was in the $700s....
Results
1 conductors per phase utilizing a #2/0 Aluminum conductor will limit the voltage drop to 3.06% or less when supplying 125.0 amps for 90 feet on a 120 volt system.
For Engineering Information Only:
135.0 Amps Rated ampacity of selected conductor
0.16 Ohms Resistance (Ohms per 1000 feet)
0.043 Ohms Reactance (Ohms per 1000 feet)
6.0 volts maximum allowable voltage drop at 5%
3.662. Actual voltage drop loss at 3.06% for the circuit
0.9 Power Factor
That should work although the ground can be smaller. I believe 4 aluminum. Not only makes the pull easier, it's much easier to terminate on the ground bar. You should be able to have the store make cuts for you.
This would be fine around here. I don't know your local codes. you may want to run everything past your electrician before you buy anything.
The thing is that this wire is a real deal at 500'. If I buy by the foot it becomes really expensive. So I figure that if I already have the 360' out of the spool, why buy another ground wire and just cut one from the 2/0 spool.
We're pulling through 1 1/2"
Everything will be run past the electrician. I was pricing the order last night and he listed #2 copper for the main load, but, thanks to you and Al, I'm happy to present to him this option. I just like to get my ducks in line and hit him hard with questions in one swoop. Makes his SWMBO also more tolerant of the "I wish you weren't working for beer!" discount.
One other small bit: I've never seen a plug with this shape: Will I ever in the US??
Be aware that aluminum wiring has some maintenance over time. It is more susceptible to thermal movement. You will want to have an electrician tighten the lugs in the box from time to time to avoid arcing from loose wires. I'm not sure the proper schedule. I believe there are special lugs with springs in them made for aluminum wire. This can help mitigate the need to tighten them as much.
The thing is that this wire is a real deal at 500'. If I buy by the foot it becomes really expensive. So I figure that if I already have the 360' out of the spool, why buy another ground wire and just cut one from the 2/0 spool.
We're pulling through 1 1/2"
Everything will be run past the electrician. I was pricing the order last night and he listed #2 copper for the main load, but, thanks to you and Al, I'm happy to present to him this option. I just like to get my ducks in line and hit him hard with questions in one swoop. Makes his SWMBO also more tolerant of the "I wish you weren't working for beer!" discount.
One other small bit: I've never seen a plug with this shape: Will I ever in the US??
The conduit can't be too big. USE Is a little sticky too. I would consider 2". Not much price difference probably.
That would be a 5-20 plug. I use some on a few of my woodworking tools.http://www.webstaurantstore.com/all-points-38-1317-plug-nema-5-20p/AP381317.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CjwKEAjwm8-6BRDgnb-Dk96UmRASJADbMycY2CbJjO2lUoFit6oOtdlJg5f4oZOPEfXGfvflRR8zlhoCXBLw_wcB
Good point. Make sure to use inhibitor on the connections. Small issue for the cost savings IMO.
These can help if your lugs are too small for 2/0: in the right size of course...
http://www.toolfetch.com/morris-products-90994-offset-solid-pin-terminal-connectors-750-mcm-to-500-mcm.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=MO-90994&gclid=CjwKEAjwm8-6BRDgnb-Dk96UmRASJADbMycYCoNMzJNvuEoX-5iiTURYLgIpSq05PME5NjxtNm7OhxoCY2vw_wcB
http://www.toolfetch.com/morris-products-90994-offset-solid-pin-terminal-connectors-750-mcm-to-500-mcm.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=MO-90994&gclid=CjwKEAjwm8-6BRDgnb-Dk96UmRASJADbMycYCoNMzJNvuEoX-5iiTURYLgIpSq05PME5NjxtNm7OhxoCY2vw_wcB
there should be no 'maintenance' with aluminum conductors. today's aluminum is not the shoddy stuff from the 70s. important thing is that the termination lugs are appropriate for aluminum. there should be some text somewhere on the terminal such as CU7AL or CU9AL, indicating the terminal is acceptable for use with copper or aluminum conductors, rated 75 degree C or 90 degree C, respectively. as others have noted, you need a larger aluminum conductor when compared to copper to safely carry the same amps so even though the termination may be rated to accept aluminum conductors, make sure it is large enough to accept the size you are using. this should all be listed on the breaker or lugs, whatever you are terminating the conductors on.
and absolutely ask your electrician about it, he/she should be able to let you know what you need.
and absolutely ask your electrician about it, he/she should be able to let you know what you need.
Just for reference, I checked my cost from the supply house this morning: $0.55 for 2/0, $0.20 for #4. That's cut to length.
So before I spend $$$ to electrify by brew day, how do I handle a scenario like this:
RIMS Rocket runs at 240v, 14.6 amps. The manufacturer recommends a 20amp GFCI
My electric port will be 240v with a 50 amp GFCI.
How do I run the RIMS Rocket within specifications?
RIMS Rocket runs at 240v, 14.6 amps. The manufacturer recommends a 20amp GFCI
My electric port will be 240v with a 50 amp GFCI.
How do I run the RIMS Rocket within specifications?
Are you planning to run it off of your control panel?
If I decide to go this route, it would be a Tower of Power... so yes?
If you plug it in to your control panel it will be gfci protected by your 50A gfci breaker. Otherwise, you could add a dedicated 20A gfci receptacle separate from the controller.
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