Upgrading Mash/Sparge Cooler - What is new?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Surly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
989
Reaction score
90
Location
Prairie Farm
Long time user of a 100qt Coleman Extreme for batch sparging. It was ok when I brewed 15 gallon batches. I recently moved to 11 gallon batches and would like a new cooler.

The Coleman now seems too large for grain bills of around 30 lbs. I now mash with 9 gallons and sparge with about 12 gallons.

It was hard to maintain temps with larger grain bills and water volumes. It will only get harder with a smaller brew batch.

So, after 10 years or so maybe there are new and better coolers out there.

Any product advice?
 
Direct fire kettles. Maybe.

I was in the same boat as you using a 12 gallon igloo cooler. Slightly too big and required step mashing to maintain temps. I really disliked the plastic in my brewing process.

I seriously looked at the Anvil Foundry and chose to go with more durable/pro-grade equipment.

Anvil:
https://www.anvilbrewing.com/-p/anv-foundry-10.5.htm

Stout:
https://conical-fermenter.com/brewing-systems-by-the-gallon/

So, I just bought this. A Stout 9 gallon HLT and MLT. I typically do grain bills with 10lbs of grain. This is the ideal size if doing a no sparge.
00000PORTRAIT_00000_BURST20191014211721096.jpeg
IMG_20191014_211957.jpeg
IMG_20191014_212324.jpeg
IMG_20191014_212347.jpeg
IMG_20191014_212048.jpeg
 
Last edited:
This requires the use of pumps. The mash tun has a big false bottom. With these I can do both RIMS and HERMS.

The left kettle in first picture is the MLT. I could if I wanted to just do RIMS with one pump and the small stove top burner. It would work great. But to have the HLT as a HERMS so it's even better.

So tomorrow I'm getting a 2nd pump delivered from Northern Brewer and a bunch of tri clovers from Pro Flow Dynamics.

Tomorrow night I'm going to test the HERMS.
 
Last edited:
FWIW - I have these float balls that I use as a heat blanket.

I can keep the igloo mash tun within a few degrees, if I only stir every 15 minutes.

Even better, I can keep 7 gallons at a simmer (gentle boil) at 30% power on a stove top. It's the larger electric burner of the two. I say gentle boil only to mitigate long boil offs. I try to maintain 6-7% loss during the boil.

The first three pictures are my igloo mash tun, then my 8 gal BK, and the very last is my brand new STOUT 9.2 HLT.

My igloo MLT really keeps heat well with these float balls and allows you to stir the mash. With them it's best to dough in thin, at ratio of 1.25 qrts/lb. Mainly so the balls float on liquid over resting on a bed of wet grain.

https://eccllc.us/features/

Cost is $75 for a 1000 20mm balls.

IMG_20190219_193704.jpeg
IMG_20190219_193712.jpeg
20190117_155835.jpeg
IMG_20190219_203626.jpeg
IMG_20191023_223448.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Here's some step mashing info to help you limp along with step mashes for an oversized cooler/MLT.

Doing this had me pretty much going to a no-sparge situation, but with high mash efficiency. A lot of that is just from mashing longer. See the times below.

This works well if you account for the temp loss between steps. John Palmer's equation on step mashing allows for the heat loss adjustment. It's in the 2nd page. I also pasted it below.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/the-methods-of-mashing/multi-rest-mashing

Initial Infusion Equation:
Strike Water Temperature Tw = (.2/r)(T2 - T1) + T2

Mash Infusion Equation:
Wa = (T2 - T1)(.2G + Wm)/(Tw - T2)

where:
r = The ratio of water to grain in quarts per pound.
Wa = The amount of boiling water added (in quarts).
Wm = The total amount of water in the mash (in quarts).
T1 = The initial temperature of the mash.
T2 = The target temperature of the mash.
Tw = The actual temperature of the infusion water.
G = The amount of grain in the mash (in pounds).

"The infusion water does not have to be boiling, a common choice is to use the sparge water at 170¡F. Then TB becomes 170 ¡F and more water (Wa) will be needed to make up the additional quantity of heat."


I'm at high 90s in mash efficiency with these mash schedules.

Here's more info on Mash Schedules....

http://counterbrew.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-beer-geek-guide-to-step-mashing-even.html?m=1

A Step Mash for clarity and body.
100 F for 20 minutes
134 F for 20 minutes
145 F for 30 minutes
155 F for 20 minutes
168 F for 10 minutes

A Step Mash for maximum phenolic expression.
100 F for 20 minutes
113 F for 35 minutes
134 F for 10 minutes
150 F for 30 minutes
168 F for 10 minutes

A simple step mash for maximum extraction of sugar
100 F for 20 minutes
150 F for 45 minutes
168 F for 10 minutes

Step mash for dry beer - dry stout & dry lager like ales
145 F for 30 minutes
152 F for 50 minutes
158 F for 30 minutes
168 F for 10 minutes
f79 (3).gif
 
Last edited:
Direct fire kettles. Maybe.

I was in the same boat as you using a 12 gallon igloo cooler. Slightly too big and required step mashing to maintain temps. I really disliked the plastic in my brewing process.

I seriously looked at the Anvil Foundry and chose to go with more durable/pro-grade equipment.

Anvil:
https://www.anvilbrewing.com/-p/anv-foundry-10.5.htm

Stout:
https://conical-fermenter.com/brewing-systems-by-the-gallon/

So, I just bought this. A Stout 9 gallon HLT and MLT. I typically do grain bills with 10lbs of grain. This is the ideal size if doing a no sparge.
View attachment 649506View attachment 649507View attachment 649508View attachment 649509View attachment 649510

First of all I want to thank you for the time you took to communicate. Your response is very thought provoking.

I do believe the time has come to move away from mashing in a cooler. A direct heat application sounds like the right approach. I am going to add some background. If anything this will allow me to order my thoughts and request advice as needed.

Vance Creek Brewery:

I discovered home brewing when I was 55 years old. This fact will become increasingly important as this thread develops. Few brewers stick to the hobby for the long term. I am to the point in my life where life changes need to be considered. If you continue following this convo you will find that thoughtful planning and design for the long term are part of the joy.

Starting out on the kitchen stove my first number of brews were extract kits.
Soon, five gallon all grain processes found their way into the brewery.
Within a year or so home brewing became my hobby.
Enjoying learning new processes I began developing a 10 gallon brewery.

At this stage I expanded my operations to include yeast harvesting, storage and building it up again. This meant I had to build DIY gear which I enjoyed making. Of course this stage meant controlled fermentation temps and converting refrigerators and building the controls. In other words I built and enhanced my brewery in planned specific stages.

I then decided to go to a 15 gallon dedicated brewery when I moved to the country in retirement. I had the space and time. I of course am now kegging, built my own kegerator etc.

Brewing all grain 10 gallon batches found me building my brew stand. A two burner propane system served me well. I eventually hooked the rig into my homes LP system. I was making the best beer I could as inexpensively as I could. Having two converted beer kegs I eventually sold them off and purchased large SS 25 to 35 gallon pots.

Build a stage...convert to higher level gear....planning....implementing......thinking ahead.

My 15 gallon build was a plastic fermenter. Like all of my builds the ideas and instructions came from Home Brew Talk.

After a couple of years I wanted to replace that fermenter with a SS conical. The one I choose was smaller at 14 gallons. At the time I did not want to give up that capacity. But, times change. As it turns out I have an opportunity to advance my brewery as it moves into a new stage of my life.

Do I convert to electric?
Do I downsize?
Must I consider a time when I may not have a dedicated brewing space?

The opportunity I have is to again review where I want to take this hobby and anticipate what it could look and feel like.

To be continued.....
 
First of all I want to thank you for the time you took to communicate. Your response is very thought provoking.

I do believe the time has come to move away from mashing in a cooler. A direct heat application sounds like the right approach. I am going to add some background. If anything this will allow me to order my thoughts and request advice as needed.

Vance Creek Brewery:

I discovered home brewing when I was 55 years old. This fact will become increasingly important as this thread develops. Few brewers stick to the hobby for the long term. I am to the point in my life where life changes need to be considered. If you continue following this convo you will find that thoughtful planning and design for the long term are part of the joy.

Starting out on the kitchen stove my first number of brews were extract kits.
Soon, five gallon all grain processes found their way into the brewery.
Within a year or so home brewing became my hobby.
Enjoying learning new processes I began developing a 10 gallon brewery.

At this stage I expanded my operations to include yeast harvesting, storage and building it up again. This meant I had to build DIY gear which I enjoyed making. Of course this stage meant controlled fermentation temps and converting refrigerators and building the controls. In other words I built and enhanced my brewery in planned specific stages.

I then decided to go to a 15 gallon dedicated brewery when I moved to the country in retirement. I had the space and time. I of course am now kegging, built my own kegerator etc.

Brewing all grain 10 gallon batches found me building my brew stand. A two burner propane system served me well. I eventually hooked the rig into my homes LP system. I was making the best beer I could as inexpensively as I could. Having two converted beer kegs I eventually sold them off and purchased large SS 25 to 35 gallon pots.

Build a stage...convert to higher level gear....planning....implementing......thinking ahead.

My 15 gallon build was a plastic fermenter. Like all of my builds the ideas and instructions came from Home Brew Talk.

After a couple of years I wanted to replace that fermenter with a SS conical. The one I choose was smaller at 14 gallons. At the time I did not want to give up that capacity. But, times change. As it turns out I have an opportunity to advance my brewery as it moves into a new stage of my life.

Do I convert to electric?
Do I downsize?
Must I consider a time when I may not have a dedicated brewing space?

The opportunity I have is to again review where I want to take this hobby and anticipate what it could look and feel like.

To be continued.....
FWIW - I really wanted to get away from plastic and get to something that's going to last forever. I'm not retired yet, close, but I've been brewing for 13 years. I brew a couple times a month so why not have something better. I wonder if that plastic is leaching something into the beer. I was always bothered by that.

For me, Direct-Fired Kettle is better since I could use induction hot plates or gas banjo burners later on down the road. I'm not sure whether I will have 240VAC in the future to power them. I don't have 240VAC now except for the one stove outlet. There's no other connections in this apartment. This way if temp is too low you turn on a burner and pump. Rather than resort to adding boiling hot water additions. Gentle easy heat on stove so there's no scorching.

Come next week I'm going to mothball my plastic mash tun.

Another thing is the use of valves, hoses and pumps/gravity for hot water or wort transfers. It's dangerous pouring several gallons of hot water into a cooler from a scalding hot kettle. So I only underlet my strike water via gravity. Underletting if you didn't know is filling from the bottom up.

Getting older kind of convinced me to stop pouring in my dough-in water. That was one of the things I disliked the most. I'm brewing low oxygen so this is pretty much an easy tenet to adopt with that brewing practice. Not to mention it's a lot safer to underlet.
 
FWIW - I really wanted to get away from plastic and get to something that's going to last forever. I'm not retired yet, close, but I've been brewing for 13 years. I brew a couple times a month so why not have something better. I wonder if that plastic is leaching something into the beer. I was always bothered by that.

For me, Direct-Fired Kettle is better since I could use induction hot plates or gas banjo burners later on down the road. I'm not sure whether I will have 240VAC in the future to power them. I don't have 240VAC now except for the one stove outlet. There's no other connections in this apartment. This way if temp is too low you turn on a burner and pump. Rather than resort to adding boiling hot water additions. Gentle easy heat on stove so there's no scorching.

Come next week I'm going to mothball my plastic mash tun.

Another thing is the use of valves, hoses and pumps/gravity for hot water or wort transfers. It's dangerous pouring several gallons of hot water into a cooler from a scalding hot kettle. So I only underlet my strike water via gravity. Underletting if you didn't know is filling from the bottom up.

Getting older kind of convinced me to stop pouring in my dough-in water. That was one of the things I disliked the most. I'm brewing low oxygen so this is pretty much an easy tenet to adopt with that brewing practice. Not to mention it's a lot safer to underlet.


Today I am considering a SS BrewTech mash tun. I need to determine which one, the 10 or the 20 gallon. I will look at my brewing history and determine in general the volumes coming out of my HLT.

I like the idea of mashing with all the water rather than additions. I am finding my brew day gets long and will streamline it a bit. I already crush my grain bill the day before the boil. I also measure hops and process my water ahead of boil day.

My brewery is unheated and I live in west central WI. I think an insulated mash tun with SS BrewTechs reputation is the way to go for me. Although it is not a direct heat vessel my 225 BTU burners handle strike temps well.

I am concerned about weight. Yet, this product should allow my brewey an update with a future possibility. I may end up wanting to move to an electric system and this mash tun would fit in.

I also am not interested in reducing my batch sizes too much yet. Last year I reduced from 15.5 to my current 11.25 gallon. That was a decision made when I upgraded from a home made plastic conical fermenter to a SS BrewTech conical. If I remember, that was a price point decision.

Hmmm, that may offer a solution.....I could at some point sell the smaller ss conical and reinvest in a 15 gallon ss conical. Therefore it may be best to go with the 20 gallon mash tun and call it a day.

Thoughts?
 
I like this website... For sizing purposes of your mash tun after dough in.


Check out the ....

Can I Mash It?

Find out if your mash tun is big enough to
hold your grain bill plus the strike water.
Note! This calculator does not take the
space under your false bottom into account!

Weight of Grains (lb or kg)

Mash Thickness (qt/lb or liters/kg)

Units of Measurement: American Metric

https://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml


Use your typically largest grain bill. Used this today for 3qrts/lb no-sparge. I'm at the top of my limit for No-Sparge at 10lbs. That's not an issue. I can fly or batch sparge if necessary.
 
Last edited:
Today I am considering a SS BrewTech mash tun. I need to determine which one, the 10 or the 20 gallon. I will look at my brewing history and determine in general the volumes coming out of my HLT.

I like the idea of mashing with all the water rather than additions. I am finding my brew day gets long and will streamline it a bit. I already crush my grain bill the day before the boil. I also measure hops and process my water ahead of boil day.

My brewery is unheated and I live in west central WI. I think an insulated mash tun with SS BrewTechs reputation is the way to go for me. Although it is not a direct heat vessel my 225 BTU burners handle strike temps well.

I am concerned about weight. Yet, this product should allow my brewey an update with a future possibility. I may end up wanting to move to an electric system and this mash tun would fit in.

I also am not interested in reducing my batch sizes too much yet. Last year I reduced from 15.5 to my current 11.25 gallon. That was a decision made when I upgraded from a home made plastic conical fermenter to a SS BrewTech conical. If I remember, that was a price point decision.

Hmmm, that may offer a solution.....I could at some point sell the smaller ss conical and reinvest in a 15 gallon ss conical. Therefore it may be best to go with the 20 gallon mash tun and call it a day.

Thoughts?

Thinking purely mash tun.....

I'd think about if you want to do direct heating or electric heating and whether you want RIMS or HERMS. Sounds like direct heat is an easy option.

I like something that I can direct heat that I'm not forced into either direction with an external heat source. I think it gives you more flexibility.

SS Brewtech makes nice stuff but the website anoyed when I was seriously shopping.

Since you're a Cheesehead check out Spike Brewing. They're in your neighborhood. Website is nice too.

https://spikebrewing.com/

I really like my choice with Stout.

Chat more later ... Wife is telling me to get back to work.
 
Last edited:
Anybody use a Chapman mash tun?
I have one. 15 gallon size. It’s good for about 30# of grain. Holds temp well after you figure out what the initial temp drop is. (8* to 15* depending on the amount of grain and the temp of the grain.)
Pro:
Pretty
Easy to clean
Shallow screen for minimal loss
Extra port on the top if you want to sparge
Hardware is decent.

con: it’s a really expensive cooler. Beer doesn’t taste any better at the end of the day.
 
First brew day tomorrow using my 15 gallon Chapman.

Will mash in on a cold WI morning with temps below freezing. It will be interesting to see how the mash temps will hold over 60 minutes.

will let you know.
 
First brew day tomorrow using my 15 gallon Chapman.

Will mash in on a cold WI morning with temps below freezing. It will be interesting to see how the mash temps will hold over 60 minutes.

will let you know.
Are you doing a direct heat MLT?
 
Back
Top