Unsubtle dig on craft beer from NPR

[bernerbrau]

It's clear upon reflection, and from the reaction I've engendered, that I've acted presumptuously.

In the future, I will try to be more reasoned and thoughtful in my initial analysis when opening a discussion thread.

 

[spearko520]

the most amazing thing is that someone was able to connect craft beer and pretentiousness. what's next, penile girth and the car you drive???

 

[harrymanback92]

Bernerbrau,

It's just the way the Internet and blogosphere work. I can tell by a large number of comments most people saw the "craft beer is bud with vinegar" and the NPR link, most people didn't take the time to read past the title. Welcome to the internet :/

 

[Qhrumphf]

And as for our ability to discriminate wine, even experts may confuse a white wine with a red when it is served at room temperature in a dark glass.

This sentence says to me that the study is even taking an advanced palate into account. While it doesn't explicitly say so, I'd say the inference applies to beer as well as wine.

As an example, when I was younger I was walking my dog barefoot. He dropped a load, and I unknowingly stepped in it before the smell hit me. It actually felt quite good, until I smelled it, and THEN it was disgusting.

Point being, isolating single sensory experiences can provide strange results, but it's our total sensory experience that matters. Like a few others have said, the context. And I think that's the point the article is making.

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

It's clear upon reflection, and from the reaction I've engendered, that I've acted presumptuously.

In the future, I will try to be more reasoned and thoughtful in my initial analysis when opening a discussion thread.

I don't know why you say this, there are obviously opinions on both sides of this article which makes for good discussion. Seems like a good topic to me.

In one sense, I agree with the author. Someone who is not a wine connoissuer probably can't tell you which bottle is the expensive one, but they CAN discern which one they like better, which might or might not be the expensive one.

In the case of beer, I think it should be pretty easy to tell a craft brew from BMC, but the average person would probably choose the BMC as the one they liked better. Personally, I am the opposite of a hophead. I like a smooth, balanced, flavor. If you put three bottles in front of me in a blind taste test, with say Coors, Spaten, and Stone Arrogant Bastard; I could tell you which one was $1 a bottle, $2 a bottle and $4 a bottle. But as to my taste, I'd pick 1.Spaten, 2.Coors and 3.Stone. Would a non-beer drinker be able to tell that difference between Spaten and Coors, maybe not.

People are willing to pay a premium for Starbucks coffee, even though to a real coffee connoisuer Starbucks is just mediocre coffee that's been over-roasted.

I guess my point is that hype and pretension certainly do play a roll, and to some extent fool the masses of people who haven't the inclination to learn what they like for themselves.

 

[bernerbrau]

I don't know why you say this, there are obviously opinions on both sides of this article which makes for good discussion. Seems like a good topic to me.

The topic isn't the problem. I presented an obvious reactionary slant on the article, without taking the time to fully digest it. This had the effect of skewing the conversation at the outset and inhibited reasoned discussion.

Worse, when I was called on what I did, I attempted to backpedal.

That was my apology. I would love to continue a thoughtful discussion on the topic.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The topic isn't the problem. I presented an obvious reactionary slant on the article, without taking the time to fully digest it. This had the effect of skewing the conversation at the outset and inhibited reasoned discussion.

Worse, when I was called on what I did, I attempted to backpedal.

That was my apology. I would love to continue a thoughtful discussion on the topic.

Eh, no worries. I think the article covered this. We don't like being told that we may not like the things we like for the reasons we think we like them. If that makes any sense. And the backlash in this thread actually kind of reinforces that point.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Reminds me of the time I insisted my wife's palate couldn't justify her demand that we pay for orange blossom honey. A blind taste test proved it. Bitter victory...

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

The topic isn't the problem. I presented an obvious reactionary slant on the article, without taking the time to fully digest it. This had the effect of skewing the conversation at the outset and inhibited reasoned discussion.

Worse, when I was called on what I did, I attempted to backpedal.

That was my apology. I would love to continue a thoughtful discussion on the topic.

Oh, OK, I get it now, and as an apology it has class. But if you hadn't posted your initial post in the way you did, it might not have inspired the same passion in the discussion. Sometimes someone has to play the devil's advocate...

 

[noodledancer77]

I appreciate the op's comments and the discussion. Another reason I enjoy this site. In general, I think we are quick to share our opinions when we haven't yet taken much time forming them. As a biologist I will admit that understanding of a published study is difficult when it is only referenced in another paper. You really have to read the original study to comprehend the objectives or conclusions. I'm gonna get a beer now!!

 

[Teromous]

I appreciate the op's comments and the discussion. Another reason I enjoy this site. In general, I think we are quick to share our opinions when we haven't yet taken much time forming them. As a biologist I will admit that understanding of a published study is difficult when it is only referenced in another paper. You really have to read the original study to comprehend the objectives or conclusions. I'm gonna get a beer now!!

I agree completely. I believe that the author of the NPR article is referencing a book that is likely credible, but in order to make his article an appealing read, he has to make it somewhat controversial and shocking. What he says does have merit, but all secondary source articles should always be taken with a grain of salt. There are lots of studies done in various fields, which analyze what the brain can truly interpret. If any of you are interested in music or audio engineering (and have an hour to kill ) the Audio Myths Workshop does a good job of this. I highly recommend checking it out:

 

[spearko520]

my add can't handle an hour, but i'm already enamored with poppy...
also i am totally down with killing music and i definitely agree that only bass players care about the bass line- and really not even most of them do.

 

[BrewMU]

I think it would be overstatement to say that the article was about beer. I'm sure there is SOME pretension in SOME beer or wine drinkers - so what? I know that Bud+Vinegar doesn't taste like Firestone/Walker - hey, I wish it did. That would be a lot cheaper than $10 a six. Meanwhile, anybody who doesn't think I can tell the difference is welcome to put their money where their mouth is.

 

[Teromous]

I think it would be overstatement to say that the article was about beer. I'm sure there is SOME pretension in SOME beer or wine drinkers - so what? I know that Bud+Vinegar doesn't taste like Firestone/Walker - hey, I wish it did. That would be a lot cheaper than $10 a six. Meanwhile, anybody who doesn't think I can tell the difference is welcome to put their money where their mouth is.

Yeah, and it doesn't even be a craft ale. I could take a garden variety craft pils and put it against any BMC pils and tell the difference. It is what it is.

 

[OldBunny]

I haven't had time to read the original study but, from other things I've read, our taste judgments are incredibly subjective and suggestable. Moreover "taste" tests, by trying to isolate flavor, can also seriously skew sound judgement. To cite a few:

• Smirnoff winning the N.Y.Times blind tasting over Stoly, Absolute and Grey Goose. The first sip may taste great, but try having a few and then surviving to the next morning.
• A wine tasting, repeated one year later with the same 5 wines and the same tasters, yielding a totally different ranking.
• Diners' ratings of wine being easily altered by changing the prices displayed on the menu.

 

[OldBunny]

Yeah, and it doesn't even be a craft ale. I could take a garden variety craft pils and put it against any BMC pils and tell the difference. It is what it is.

I can't think of any light lager I've drunk that could come close to the flat, cheesy taste of Bud Light.

 

[bovineblitz]

This article is pop psychology. Context is a neural event just as much as taste and feel. It's true that context affects perception quite strongly but the feeling I get from the article is amateurish and over the top.

 

[passedpawn]

Reminds me of the time I insisted my wife's palate couldn't justify her demand that we pay for orange blossom honey. A blind taste test proved it. Bitter victory...

I did the same with Tupelo. I do love honey tho.

I like NPR. Mostly. Beats most everything else on the radio.

I don't care what they said about beer.

 

[BlackJaqueJanaviac]

It seems to me that the whole pretext of the article is that things only matter based on one sensory experience. I've noticed that certain flavored coffees are not flavored but are scented. Just put it in a covered travel mug and you hardly can tell. Does that mean that it is a waste of money to get that flavored coffee - only if one is STUPID enough to be convinced that what you smell while consuming a beverage does not count, and what you taste is the ONLY thing that matters.

That said the other thing they do not seem to note or study is whether taste is capable of discerning anything at all. It is as if someone was only interested in testing the limits of taste and how one can be fooled. I honestly don't think you can make bad coffee taste good by putting a travel mug cover on it. I cannot count the number of times my nose was duped into thinking my mouth would enjoy something.

 

[lou2row]

Most of these studies are done in a way that scews the information to the way the person wants. I have participated in several blind cigar reviews, as well as sent out over a dozen to groups. I have done my own psyche tests numerous times to see who can actually judge a cigar, and who is guessing. The people who's posts make them seem to enjoy hype and fancy labels and assert themselves as "experts", actually are blind without hype and fancy labels. The guy unafraid to admit he enjoys cigars regardless of cost, generally will be able to tell one cigar from the other.

That said, I've never had pate. So I may prefer the dog food. But I do know I can tell bacon from beggin strips, no matter how smokey and delicious they make it smell.

 

[lou2row]

What the hell is a Theoretical Physicist? A guy with no facts that thinks he knows everything? Christ, I know a bunch of people like that, they just don't have a title.

 

[unionrdr]

Theoretical physics deals with what might be done with something other than what's done with it now to my understanding. I just wanna make good beer.

 

[spearko520]

am i the only one with a throbber for poppy?