Unboxing Colorado Brewing Systems new Single Vessel System

[andrewmaixner]

I'm surprised you circulate wort through the chiller prior to chilling. I was going to do that but I assumed that would just throw tons of debris through the chiller and lead to clogging. Instead I try to run Starsan through prior to each use.

If there is still any debris/buildup in the chiller StarSan can't get through it to sanitize -- it requires direct contact. Heat, on the other hand, will heat up any debris and pasteurize it.

 

[30Bones]

Or clean the plate chiller after each use, then just run star san through it while you are boiling and you don't even have to bother running boiling wort through it. That's what I have started doing with my CFC chiller the last few brews.

 

[pretzelb]

If there is still any debris/buildup in the chiller StarSan can't get through it to sanitize -- it requires direct contact. Heat, on the other hand, will heat up any debris and pasteurize it.

I don't follow what you mean. My assumption is you need to avoid debris entering a plate chiller at all costs. Once it gets in there you can only hope a good reverse flush will push it out. Using that logic you try your best to make sure what enters the plate chiller is debris free. This is one main reason the hop filter market exists. So following this logic, a procedure that will result in lots of debris flowing into the chiller seems like a bad idea even if it does result with boiled wort entering the chiller.

Am I missing something?

 

[30Bones]

Plate chillers require some sort of hop filtration unless you sanitize it like I said AND whirlpool and let your hops/proteins settle out and you run it out of the kettle slowly. I am not 100% sold on plate chillers yet. I do know they work amazingly well though.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I don't follow what you mean. My assumption is you need to avoid debris entering a plate chiller at all costs. Once it gets in there you can only hope a good reverse flush will push it out. Using that logic you try your best to make sure what enters the plate chiller is debris free. This is one main reason the hop filter market exists. So following this logic, a procedure that will result in lots of debris flowing into the chiller seems like a bad idea even if it does result with boiled wort entering the chiller.
Am I missing something?

No, you are correct.
But *if* there is any buildup that didn't get properly cleaned out, heat has an advantage over chemicals for sanitizing it.

 

[rappell]

I wonder if I need to look at adjusting my hoses because I don't get a great whirlpool. Then again I don't know exactly what to look for.

I'm surprised you circulate wort through the chiller prior to chilling. I was going to do that but I assumed that would just throw tons of debris through the chiller and lead to clogging. Instead I try to run Starsan through prior to each use.

I do the reverse cleaning cycle and it does seem to work but you just can't be sure. I have yet to taste my first batch with the plate chiller so I won't know how well I'm doing on the cleaning.

Remember, starsan is a sanitizer not a cleaner. You MUST clean before you sanitize or you are wasting your time, that's what the PBW does. Boiling wort will kill anything that escapes the cleaning process. Starsan by its self will not save you from contamination.

 

[brianccarr]

Looks like the pro version kettle has an extra port on the side near the bottom dedicated to just whirl pooling. I assume on the home version you just remove the metal tube that is attached to the basket for mash whirlpool and remove the basket. Then reattach the same tube to the kettle somehow and use for the wort whirlpool. If that's correct, how do you attach the tube back onto the kettle and is this whirlpool just as affective as having a dedicated whirlpool port at the bottom side of the kettle?

 

[rappell]

Looks like the pro version kettle has an extra port on the side near the bottom dedicated to just whirl pooling. I assume on the home version you just remove the metal tube that is attached to the basket for mash whirlpool and remove the basket. Then reattach the same tube to the kettle somehow and use for the wort whirlpool. If that's correct, how do you attach the tube back onto the kettle and is this whirlpool just as affective as having a dedicated whirlpool port at the bottom side of the kettle?

I'm not sure with the current version. I have old version with a tri clover port near the top (see my pic). After mash I remove the recirculation arm, pull out the basket then return the recirculation arm. Tim would be more able to better answer your questions on the new system

 

[pretzelb]

Remember, starsan is a sanitizer not a cleaner. You MUST clean before you sanitize or you are wasting your time, that's what the PBW does. Boiling wort will kill anything that escapes the cleaning process. Starsan by its self will not save you from contamination.

I include the chill plate with my kettle cleaning process loop. My fear of using boiling wort is adding debris to the chill plate. Plus, I assume Starsan will sanitize just like boiling wort will. So by not using the debris filled wort to sanitize I should be keeping debris out of my chill plate. In theory of course.

I'm also surprised clogging the plate isn't an issue.

 

[TexasWine]

I include the chill plate with my kettle cleaning process loop. My fear of using boiling wort is adding debris to the chill plate. Plus, I assume Starsan will sanitize just like boiling wort will. So by not using the debris filled wort to sanitize I should be keeping debris out of my chill plate. In theory of course.

I'm also surprised clogging the plate isn't an issue.

I've never heard of anyone NOT circulating boiling wort through their plate chiller. Personally, I throw all my hops into a bag or SS filter during the boil to keep a majority of junk out of the chiller. But the hot break material and cold break all get pumped through it. I also circulate back to the kettle while chilling because I have hot Texas water.

Here's the thing. You will not keep everything out of your plate chiller, no matter what you do. The process of chilling the boiling wort precipitates proteins, what we call cold break.

I think you may be overly concerned with keeping your plate chiller pristine. Just keep the big hop debris out of it. The break material is light and fluffy and shouldn't plug the chiller. When you're done chilling, back flush. I back flush by shoving the end of my water hose over the wort out side and let it flush for 5-10 minutes. I haven't had any issues with clogging or infections, or any other nightmares you might dream up.

I've heard stories about folks that have nasty, chunky stuff shoot out of their plate chillers. But it's always the ones who wait a day or two before cleaning up after a brew day.

 

[brianccarr]

The re-circulation tube mounts to the basket via a removable bracket fitting. The same bracket simply mounts to the kettle for whirlpool. Tim at Colorado Brewing was very helpful and quick to respond. I can't see any reason to go with the Nano Pro-Down Under for my needs as a home brewer.

 

[pretzelb]

I like the stand you picked. Very nice setup.

I'm going to see if my mill can handle the 030 range. I had not thought to try and squeeze the grains. I'm not sure if I have a lid that might help do that. Or maybe I need to try one change at a time.

Welp. Changing the mill seems like a bad idea for me. I can't run the pump without it draining the kettle. I guess my version with the solid sides is different. Too last fur today's session but I need to go back to the .039 range.

View attachment 1461521924426.jpg

 

[andrewmaixner]

How far down does the re-circulation fitting reach? is it far enough to whirlpool the post-boil 5 or 6 gallons for a single batch? (I've seen two different fitting pictures on their site and videos, one that is long and straight, another that is shorter and bent)

I guess my main concern is still how well a 15gal system will work for 5/6gal batches due to the amount of lost mash volume under the basket (especially for a high gravity small batch)

 

[pretzelb]

I include the chill plate with my kettle cleaning process loop. My fear of using boiling wort is adding debris to the chill plate. Plus, I assume Starsan will sanitize just like boiling wort will. So by not using the debris filled wort to sanitize I should be keeping debris out of my chill plate. In theory of course.

I'm also surprised clogging the plate isn't an issue.

OK, this was a bad idea. I've created a separate thread in the equipment forum.

plate chiller issues with hot wort

 

[rappell]

Welp. Changing the mill seems like a bad idea for me. I can't run the pump without it draining the kettle. I guess my version with the solid sides is different. Too last fur today's session but I need to go back to the .039 range.

Did you throttle down the outlet side valve from the pump to slow down the recirculation?

 

[rappell]

How far down does the re-circulation fitting reach? is it far enough to whirlpool the post-boil 5 or 6 gallons for a single batch? (I've seen two different fitting pictures on their site and videos, one that is long and straight, another that is shorter and bent)

I guess my main concern is still how well a 15gal system will work for 5/6gal batches due to the amount of lost mash volume under the basket (especially for a high gravity small batch)

Mine goes down far enough for a 5 gal batch in my 20 gal system.

 

[cyclonebeer]

I brewed a 5 gallon batch in my 20 gallon tank yesterday with the new recirc. arm (retrofit model for the old single vessel system). I used 8 1/2 gallons of water. When I added the basket plus grains, the volume rose to about 9 1/2 gallons as per sight glass. The recirc. arm was about 1" above the liquid level. I also have the "all mesh" basket. Running the pump wide open blasted wort through the mesh and oxygenated the wort and created a lot of foam. It looked like I was mashing with Oxy Clean instead of grain. I throttled the pump back to maybe 25% flow and the foam died down. Hope this doesn't cause a problem.

I still really like the system, but like anything new, there is a learning curve involved. Feedback from users really helps.

 

[pretzelb]

Did you throttle down the outlet side valve from the pump to slow down the recirculation?

I tried that but it was really bad. This is how it drained while suspended above the kettle. I had to use a mash paddle to scrape out the pockets of wort. I've never seen a stuck sparge like this before. And the crush wasn't as fine as I've done before.

View attachment 1461597225315.jpg

 

[sabo38]

Mine should be here next week!

 

[rappell]

Fantastic upgrade! I upgrad d my pump from the 7gpm chugger to the 17 gpm chugger max. What a difference! The larger flow rate really moves the mash around. Just what you want with the all mesh basket. Probably would be bad with the solid side basket....

 

[mcgimpkins]

Mine goes down far enough for a 5 gal batch in my 20 gal system.

@rappell
About how far off does the re-circulation arm sit from the bottom of the basket?

@pretzelb
Does yours sit low enough to to a 5 gallon batch or do you have to put some tubing on it? I'm curious if they have changed where the re-circulation arm sits on the newer kettles.

If either of you have any pictures that would be great.

 

[pretzelb]

@rappell
About how far off does the re-circulation arm sit from the bottom of the basket?

@pretzelb
Does yours sit low enough to to a 5 gallon batch or do you have to put some tubing on it? I'm curious if they have changed where the re-circulation arm sits on the newer kettles.

If either of you have any pictures that would be great.

I have the grains for a stout recipe that requires 17.5 lbs of grain at 5g so I will be doing another 5g recipe next (if I could make 10g of this recipe that would be amazing). My plan is to always use a hose for a 5g recipe. I suppose with something huge it might be possible to avoid the hose but I have so many laying around it isn't a big deal to me.

In the distant future when I'm fully comfortable with the system I might look to experiment with other recirc options. Since the tri-clover clamps are used, all I need is something that can attach to an adapter. I was thinking something that drips liquid from the top like a traditional sparge (but with higher volume) might be interesting. If it was parallel with the top of the basket, then I could use it for both 5g and 10g batches.

 

[swimIan]

Curious how far "open" or at what rate others run their pump during mash recirculation? Thx!

 

[pretzelb]

Deleted post - wrong thread

 

[30Bones]

Curious how far "open" or at what rate others run their pump during mash recirculation? Thx!

Only done one batch so the verdict is still out. It was 10 gallons and I had to keep it around 1/4-1/3 open it seemed or it would pull too much liquid before it could get through the grain bed.

Doing a 5 gallon of a RIS tonight so I am curious how this plays out. Similar grain bill as before at ~22# just far less liquid.

 

[30Bones]

Unsure how you folks mash full throttle. I'm around an 1/8 open and still have to watch the level between the basket and kettle. Mashing at 149 and the top of the first 4" of the grain bed I can measure is 4 degrees low. Kind of want to up the PID a couple degrees to try to raven this out.

In the beginning of a 90 minute mash and don't want to have to stir and babysit this. I'm thirsty [emoji23]

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

try a bigger crush and it will let you recirculate faster, you'll be able to get closer to your pids matching because of the faster wort recirculating back to the top

0.045"

 

[30Bones]

It's at 0.045" per CO recommendations

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I guess its because I have a jaybird false bottom and I think it allows more to go through it than the screens but you can condition your grain by soaking for a while first and it helps too, I think half closed is perfect

 

[30Bones]

Towards the end I was able to open the valve more before mash out. I suspect my pre boil gravity may be a bit low but crossing my fingers.