Two thumbs up (more if I could) for Thermaworks!!

[Indyking]

FIVE degrees on a mash temp is no big deal according to Palmer?? 1) bull$&@/ 2) if he says that, he's wrong. Way wrong.

So 148 is the same as 153? Bull

158 is the same as 163 (where you're denaturing your enzymes at a pretty good clip??). Bull.

I originally thought enzymes don't denaturate at 163F, but you are right, some do.

 

[bob1852]

So, enzymes are denaturated at 163F? I think I should not waste my time with you...

Beta amylase starts to denature at 154....

 

[Indyking]

temperature variations within a degree or so in the mash will have noticible effects on the profile of your beer.

A temp change of 1F during mashing will make a difference? Hum...

John Palmer, how to brew:

Page136: steeping of grains: recommended temp: 160F plus or minus 10F, yeah 10F... But that is steeping....

How about mashing?

Page 202... Checking temp of mashing: recommended 150-155F, a 5F range, If it is too low 145F, add hot water, if it is too high, 160F, add cold water. So, the difference between 160 and 145 is a smoking 15F!!!! I'm pretty sure my 10 bucks CDN thermometer can handle that pretty well!

Take it easy. I'm sure a thermapen is an excellent thermo, no question, all I said is that I don't personally see added value on investing that much money in a thermometer in my brewing process. Some people think differently. Fine.

 

[bob1852]

A temp change of 1F during mashing will make a difference? Hum...

John Palmer, how to brew:

Page136: steeping of grains: recommended temp: 160F plus or minus 10F, yeah 10F... But that is steeping....

How about mashing?

Page 202... Checking temp of mashing: recommended 150-155F, a 5F range, If it is too low 145F, add hot water, if it is too high, 160F, add cold water. So, the difference between 160 and 145 is a smoking 15F!!!! I'm pretty sure my 10 bucks CDN thermometer can handle that pretty well!

Take it easy. I'm sure a thermapen is an excellent thermo, no question, all I said is that I don't personally see added value on investing that much money in a thermometer in my brewing process. Some people think differently. Fine.

If I build a recipe that I want to mash at 158 and I end up mashing at 153; it's going to be a different beer than I wanted. Will it still be beer? Yes. Will it be the beer I wanted? No.

 

[Indyking]

If I build a recipe that I want to mash at 158 and I end up mashing at 153; it's going to be a different beer than I wanted. Will it still be beer? Yes. Will it be the beer I wanted? No.

Yes, I agree, most likely, but do I need an expensive thermapen to prevent that? I don't think so.

The OP was just giving credit to the nice customer service by thermoworks. Since I'm out in the market for a back up thermo for my cheap but great CDN, I thought it was valuable to share the fact that thermoworks sell a much cheaper thermo almost as fast and likely as precise as their thermapen.

 

[weirdboy]

almost as fast and likely as precise as their thermapen.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[bob1852]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Inconceivable!!!

 

[Indyking]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think I know what it means...

pre·ci·sion
[pri-sizh-uhn]
- noun 1. state or quality of being exact 2. accuracy; exactness 3. punctiliousness; strictness 4. exactness or correctness, as of a quantity or measurement - adjective 5. of, pertaining to, or characterized by precision
- Related Form pre·ci·sion·al- adjective
Source:
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.

 

[Cape Brewing]

"hummm".... Why dont you post the ACTUAL paragraph you're supposedly quoting from page 202?

LOL!!!!

Dont worry if you cant suddenly find it.

I'll.... Hum.... Post it for you shortly.

 

[Indyking]

Post it for you shortly.

No need to do that, unless you want waste your time.

I'm done with this thread, period.

It all comes down to this:

We see different value in different things for our wonderful hobby. I personally find it disturbing to invest almost 100 bucks in a thermometer. I feel like my beer is already good enough to avoid such a waste. FWIW, I built my kegerator for a cost similar to what is charged for a thermapen, granted I had the freezer already. Some people would rather invest that much cash in a thermometer than something else. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Cape Brewing]

No, no... Its ok. I'll post it in a second for the benefit of everyone else who might be reading this. Just one sec...

 

[motobrewer]

if you really believe a mash temp differential of 3F will have no change to the finished beer, you really don't know what you're talking about.

some people like repeatability. some people like knowing what the heck they're doing

 

[optimatored]

Thermapen is to stainless conical as everything else is to plastic bucket. Some people get tired of buying the cheaper units over and over. With that said, I recently started selling the CDN proaccurate digital because it was the thermo that finally got me to stop hating the cheapos. Big numbers, hold feature, waterproof, recalibration button and reasonable enough price that I wouldn't mind buying a new one ever two years (not that I think I would need to).

+1 to the CDN.. been using for well over 2 years and calibrates perfectly every time.

 

[Cape Brewing]

hum... let's see....

Page 202... here it is. In the "Your First All Grain Batch" chapter... meaning JP is trying to walk someone through a most basic process.

"Check the temperature of the mash to see if it has stabilized at the target temperature of 152F"

Your copy of HTB must be missing that sentence.

"... or at least in the range of 150 to 155." Again... it is a how-to for someone's first AG batch and he's trying to keep it simple.

"if the temperature is too low, e.g. 145F, add some more hot water." Because 145 is too low compared to the 152 target.... since a temp difference of 7 degrees is a big deal in mash temp.

"If it is too high, e.g. 160F, then add cold water to bring it down." Again... that much of a temp difference is dramatic and he's, even on someone first AG batch, trying to get them close to a specific target temp.

"156 is the highest we would want for this recipe" Odd... your copy must be missing that sentence as well.

"It will yield a sweet, medium bodied wort with good attenuation" .... which is dead on accurate for a TARGET TEMP OF 152.

If you want to use whatever thermometer you have... awesome. I don't care what you use. You wanna plug a product, awesome, plug away. If you don't care about a potential temp swing of six degrees in your mash... again.. awesome... have at it.

But don't try to justify it with giving people false information about mash temps. You chopped up a Palmer paragraph to make it sound like your "argument" was right around mash temps and you're not right. And, trying to chop up someone like Palmer to try to make you sound right does nothing but give people bad information that might not know better.

 

[wildwest450]

+1 to the CDN.. been using for well over 2 years and calibrates perfectly every time.

That still doesn't mean it's accurate in THE MASH RANGE. That's why I stopped using the CDN. Even if it's only 2 degrees off, can you maintain exact mashtun temps? Not if you use a cooler. If you lose 2 degrees + your thermometer is 2 off, then your mash profile has changed. Not acceptable for the amount of effort I put into my brewing.

 

[motobrewer]

hey, you can't use my "make up random things to support your argument" tactic!! i patented that tactic!!!!

 

[Yooper]

OK, that's more than enough.

Keep on topic. No more arguing over mash temps! Argue mash temps in a different thread if you feel that you have to. No more OT posts or comments.

Thanks!

 

[brettwasbtd]

I got Jelly Beans from the lady who packaged my thermapen! Thats some great service

 

[optimatored]

That still doesn't mean it's accurate in THE MASH RANGE. That's why I stopped using the CDN. Even if it's only 2 degrees off, can you maintain exact mashtun temps? Not if you use a cooler. If you lose 2 degrees + your thermometer is 2 off, then your mash profile has changed. Not acceptable for the amount of effort I put into my brewing.

Directly from CDN:
Features
• NSF® approved
• Waterproof
• Shatterproof
• ± 1/2° accuracy
• Stainless steel housing
• Recalibratable
• On/off switch
• Auto-off after 10 minutes
• Sheath can be used as handle extension
• Pocket clip
• Battery & instructions included

Nice try on 2 degrees. I want a thermopen, but for now is out of the budget... buts it is good to know their service is top notch. I want a pH meter from them too...

 

[optimatored]

I got Jelly Beans from the lady who packaged my thermapen! Thats some great service

that is amazing. :rockin:

 

[Yooper]

I got Jelly Beans from the lady who packaged my thermapen! Thats some great service

Your other post was ok- not really OT. I didn't crack the wipe over thermometer chat- it was the other stuff. I can restore your post, if you want.

I'm one of those people who finally sprung for the thermopen after buying about 10 different thermometers over the years. It's cheaper in the long run to buy one quality thermometer from my point of view- as I've had some inexplicably just "die" and they vary in price from $12-$20.

I've spent over $2000 on my brew rig. Why not get a $75 thermometer if I want one (it was on sale).

I will say that my $2000 rig doesn't brew better beer than my old stove top method, though. You can make great beer with $100 in equipment. I would NEVER criticise someone's set up, whether an expensive Sabco or a cheap Cabela's turkey fryer.

 

[weirdboy]

I think I know what it means...

pre·ci·sion
[pri-sizh-uhn]
- noun 1. state or quality of being exact 2. accuracy; exactness 3. punctiliousness; strictness 4. exactness or correctness, as of a quantity or measurement - adjective 5. of, pertaining to, or characterized by precision
- Related Form pre·ci·sion·al- adjective
Source:
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.

In this case we are talking about precision in measurement, which does NOT mean what you think it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision


It is very important to use the correct word in this context, because they convey completely different metrics.

 

[TomRep]

I look at it this way, I probably have over 5k invested in all brew related items. I brew 10 gallon batches and nothing under 5%. Most of my grain bills are at or over 30#. I want to make the best beer i can and definitely never have a batch that has to be dumped. The amount of cash i have in my equipment plus the amount of cash in my ingredients every weekend, $100 is well worth it. I am by no means rich or anything like that, just thoroughly enjoy the hobby and put money to it when i can. Next up, full electric Kal style system. That $100 was a drop in the bucket.
Tom

 

[Bobby_M]

Thermometers are extremely frustrating if you want to be precise. Just about everything we do to try to check the accuracy of the one we're using is relatively flawed. If you're comparing another thermometer to the thermapen and they disagree, naturally you're going to blame the one you didn't pay $90 for. Ok, so using a glass lab thermo will settle it right? Mine reads 4F low at 160F and I'm only speculating with that statement because 5 other thermometers (mixed digitals and bimetal dials) were reading 156F and I suppose they all could have been wrong. Perhaps the only way to be sure is to boil some methyl alcohol (methanol) and look for the thermo that reads 149F. Of course, I'm not thrilled with the idea of an open flame and methanol vapor in the same area.

 

[optimatored]

The best way to know if your thermometer is accurate... how you say? Does your beer taste the way you envisioned? If not, adjust your mash temps using YOUR CURRENT thermometer. It really will not matter then if you use a cheaper or more expensive thermo because you adjust your temps based on the equipment on hand. I know accuracy will affect this to some extent, but overall, I think great brews can be achieved either way (already stated). What I think we can all agree is on is that brew paraphernalia is great!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

in this case we are talking about precision in measurement, which does not mean what you think it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/accuracy_and_precision


it is very important to use the correct word in this context, because they convey completely different metrics.

boom!

 

[wildwest450]

Directly from CDN:

• ± 1/2° accuracy

Nice try on 2 degrees. I want a thermopen, but for now is out of the budget... buts it is good to know their service is top notch. I want a pH meter from them too...

I'm saying my thermapen and lab thermometer are both dead on at 152f. The CDN is not, therefore not accurate enough for me. It really is of no consequence what they claim.

And yes, the gourmet jelly bean sampler was the delicious.

 

[finley]

On the original posters comment about customer service...

It is really good to see that they were on the ball and did the right thing. I had a thermometer, not cheap, but not thermopen price crap out on me after 4 or so batches. I got the run around that "even though it says rated to 300 degrees the cable is only rated to 120 so you abused the system, no warranty for you".

I recently got two of the cheapo stick thermometers and will use them both to get temps, and they will be off from each other by a few degrees, even though I calibrated them to boiling temps together. Thermopen is on my "to buy" list.

 

[TimothyRobinson]

Thermometers are extremely frustrating if you want to be precise. Just about everything we do to try to check the accuracy of the one we're using is relatively flawed. If you're comparing another thermometer to the thermapen and they disagree, naturally you're going to blame the one you didn't pay $90 for. Ok, so using a glass lab thermo will settle it right? Mine reads 4F low at 160F and I'm only speculating with that statement because 5 other thermometers (mixed digitals and bimetal dials) were reading 156F and I suppose they all could have been wrong. Perhaps the only way to be sure is to boil some methyl alcohol (methanol) and look for the thermo that reads 149F. Of course, I'm not thrilled with the idea of an open flame and methanol vapor in the same area.

Tim here from ThermoWorks. What a thread... Actually, a PROPERLY made ice bath is a great way to test your thermometers: see http://www.thermoworks.com/blog/2010/11/is-one-calibration-point-enough/ Here's a little video on making a good bath for any thermometer test: http://www.thermoworks.com/blog/2010/10/making-a-proper-ice-bath/

Glad you all love the Jelly Bellies!!
Tim