Two stage fermentation or bottling from bucket

[teetee523]

Hi everyone!
I have a potentially newbie question, but my boyfriend and I just brewed our first beer yesterday. We got a starter kit that came with pretty much everything in it and followed the instructions that came with it and also used the Joy and Homebrewing by Charlie Papazian. It went pretty well but I have one question. We ended up doing the entire process in the 6 gallon bucket and not using the carboy and the beer is now fermenting in the bucket (with the fermentation lock on it, it's bubbling now).

Basically, my question is, should we just wait and bottle from the bucket or after a few days transfer to the carboy? I am just wondering if using the bucket for bottling would be a little tricky because we wouldn't have another bucket to transfer the beer to in order to add the sugar and then bottle. How have others bottled using the bucket? Or does it just seem like doing two stage fermentation would be easier because we would have the beer in the carboy and can just use the bucket?

Thank you!

 

[Revvy]

Rack it to a dedicated bottling bucket with a spigot

The problem with bottling from a primary or secondary instead of using a bottling bucket, is that since you have patiently gone and let your beer settle and clear, in order to mix the priming solution and beer effectively, you would have to stir it in the carboy which would a) kick up all that nice sediment you have patiently let fall, b) possibly oxydize the beer.

It really defeats the purpose of both a long primary/no secondary or a secondary if you have to stir up all the nice sediment you patiently waited to settle just so you can have consistent carbonation.

With my buttling bucket and my dip tube, I leave no more than about 3 ounces behind, which means I can get about 52 to 54 bottles per 5 gallon batch.

Go to a hardware store and get a translucent or white bucket...but look for one where the 5 gallon mark falls way below the top of the bucket. Usually it will say 5 gallons at 3rd band from the top. (oh get the lid too....I totally regret not getting it when I did.)

Then get a spigot and make a dedicated bottling bucket. It really defeats the purpose of both a long primary/no secondary or a secondary if you have to stir up all the nice sediment you patiently waited to settle just so you can have consistent carbonation.

Mine is the translucent Leaktite brand 5 gallon container with the gallon and liter markings from Homedepot.

Here's a pic of mine from my bottling thread.

One of my dip tubes and what gets left behind.

You'll find a ton of good info here to make bottling easier.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/

 

[FensterBos]

Are you fermenting in the bottling bucket (i.e. is there a spigot on the bucket)?
First things first, you could have fermented in the glass carboy and then transferred to the bottling bucket, which would have solved your priming sugar problem. You just want to make sure that the carboy isn't subjected to light.
Secondly, you can transfer to the carboy for secondary fermentation, but unless you are dry hopping or adding fruit it is pretty unnecessary (however, others will tell you differently).

Quick update: Revvy pretty much beat me to the punch, but he's right on point.

 

[fixitoscar]

Yup you should have fermented in the carboy. In your stuation, just like Revvy said, I would just buy and make a dedicated bottling bucket. Its cheap and the price far outwieghs the risk and trouble involved with racking your beer around instead of lettting it sit like it should.

 

[teetee523]

Thanks for the quick replies!

We realized after we had started putting the wort in the bucket and mixing in the water that we should've put it in the carboy and it would've solved all of our issues because then the bucket would be free to use for bottling, so currently our beer is fermenting in the bottling bucket. I guess it was just our confusion and figured we'd just use the bucket and either bottle from the bucket or do two stage fermentation.

It does seem unnecessary to transfer for secondary fermentation for this beer since it's a beginner recipe and we don't plan on adding anything else, but for the sake of practicality I think we may do it so we can use the bucket for bottling. And I had seen alot of buckets with the spigot attached it seems like a great idea and would make the whole process so much easier for bottling. Going to have to look into that, thanks!

 

[teetee523]

Yup you should have fermented in the carboy. In your stuation, just like Revvy said, I would just buy and make a dedicated bottling bucket. Its cheap and the price far outwieghs the risk and trouble involved with racking your beer around instead of lettting it sit like it should.

Just got this reply after posting the last reply. I think that makes sense because I was hesitant to move it around while it's still in the process of fermenting. I think we'll get another bucket to use as dedicated bottling bucket, don't want to risk ruining the beer. Thanks again everyone.

 

[FensterBos]

We realized after we had started putting the wort in the bucket and mixing in the water that we should've put it in the carboy...

At that point you were still able to transfer it into the carboy since you had not pitched the yeast yet. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it would have helped since it would have aerated the wort. It is after pitching the yeast when you want to avoid disturbing the wort and potentially oxidizing it after the initial fermentation.

Regarding using the bucket to bottle, you could potentially just bottle directly from the fermenter if you have a spigot installed on the side of it. There is a chance you'll get some trub in the beer, but if you bottle condition long enough you can pour the beer out and sacrifice the last half inch in every bottle. If there is a spigot on the primary, make sure you unscrew the spigot and clean inside all of the pieces to avoid future infection.

Does anyone have any thoughts on bottling from the fermenter?

 

[mattymatt79]

Revy,
I've read your post now about three times and I'm having a REALLY hard time understanding it.

I have a Primary / Secondary and Bottle Bucket.
I haven't used a secondary yet and just using it mostly as another way to brew more beer (YAY More Beer!)

Are you saying Primary -> Bottle bucket as a secondary and then add primary sugar to it on bottle day?

 

[RM-MN]

What Revvy is saying is to forget the secondary. You really don't need it at all and you will get better beer by leaving it in the primary for a longer time. When it's time to bottle, you want to mix your priming sugar with some boiling water and pour that into the bottling bucket and then carefully rack your beer onto that. I like to use a piece of tubing long enough to reach to the bottom of the bottling bucket and half a turn around it so the beer swirls to mix in the sugar solution you just poured in. I then use a sanitized slotted spoon to slowly stir the beer to ensure complete mixing of the sugar solution and the beer. Then use the spigot and a bottling wand connected to it with a short piece of tubing to fill the bottles.

 

[mattymatt79]

Ah ok, that makes sense then.

Guess I need to get another brew into that empty carboy then is REALLY what you're saying then. I guess I'll have to convince the wife that we need another one going.

 

[brewit2it]

There's nothing wrong with fermenting in the bucket. If your glass carboy is 5 gallon it makes a pretty bad vessel for fermenting a 5 gallon batch which your bucket can easily handle. You could theoreticly bottle straight from the bucket by adding dry sugar, a sugar soln, or beer carbonating tablets to each bottle, but what I would likely do If I were you is go 2 weeks in the primary then rack to the carboy and leave it there for a week or so then rack back to the bucket for bottling. That is pretty standard operation if you don't have a carboy big enough (6.5 gallons preferred) to use as a primary.

 

[FensterBos]

I actually recommend that you rack to your tub, add sugar, and then swim around in it to make sure it is mixed well. Then suck up the beer into your mouth and spit into the bottles. That should be the easiest and fastest way.

All joking aside, I have found that the best way to bottle is to have an established bottling bucket like Revvy mentioned; it is one of the cheapest pieces of equipment and it will save you the burden of having to rack to a secondary when you just don't need to (depending the recipe). Racking to a carboy for a secondary is fine as long as you don't oxidize the beer. Or you can do what I just did over the weekend and keg your beer. SO much easier.

 

[teetee523]

At that point you were still able to transfer it into the carboy since you had not pitched the yeast yet. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it would have helped since it would have aerated the wort. It is after pitching the yeast when you want to avoid disturbing the wort and potentially oxidizing it after the initial fermentation.

At the time I didn't realize that we shouldn't be using the carboy, I think we thought it would be easy enough to bottle from the bucket, but we don't have a spigot on the side of it and after doing some more research realized that it is much easier to ferment in the carboy and then use a bottling bucket. So the idea of transferring to the carboy didn't come until we had already pitched the yeast, darn it! Anyways, we learned our mistake and will buy a new bucket this time for bottling but for future use make sure we use the carboy for fermentation. At least we didn't ruin the beer!

 

[FensterBos]

Sorry, I thought you were worried about oxidizing the beer. It was mentioned earlier that you probably don't want to ferment in a 5 gallon carboy for obvious reasons; if you have a 7.5 gallon you will be all set.
Anyway, no matter what you do, make sure you unscrew and clean out the spigot and RDWHAHB.

 

[teetee523]

It was mentioned earlier that you probably don't want to ferment in a 5 gallon carboy for obvious reasons; if you have a 7.5 gallon you will be all set.

We got a 5 gallon carboy in our starter kit, do you think that we could use that for a 5 gallon brew if we had a blow off tube? Just for future reference.

 

[brewit2it]

We got a 5 gallon carboy in our starter kit, do you think that we could use that for a 5 gallon brew if we had a blow off tube? Just for future reference.

This thread was actually a little confussing for you I think. A lot of the replies made you assume you had done something wrong. The first thing I would say is the way you did/are doing this batch is totally appropiate and the most standard method of home brewing. Thats why the delux starter kits come the way they do with a bucket and 5 gallon carboy.

In other words starting your beer in the larger primary fermenting bucket then at some later point racking to the 5 gallon carboy is standard operation. On the other hand you don't have to use a secondary fermenter at all. Most folks who do single stage fermentation (myself included) use a carboy but there is no reason you couldn't use your bucket for single stage fermentation but then you will need a second bottling bucket or will need to add sugar t each bottle as I mentioned above. Most recipes usually talk about racking to the carboy for secondary fermentation a little too early, like 4-7 days or so, but I would wait around 2 weeks.

A 5 gallon carboy is not big enough to use as a primary fermenter to make 5 gallon batches. You want to start with 5.5 gallons so you will have 5 gallons after racking off the sediment. Also you want about a gallon or more of head space or you are going to get some serious discharge from a blow off tube. I would go for a 6.5 gallon or larger carboy is you want to use one as a primary fermenter.

But if you don't want to buy anymore eqipment yet then just do what you planned in the first place which is ferment in the bucket (2 weeks), bulk condition in the carboy (1 week) then rack back to the bucket on bottling day and soon you'll be able to relax, don't worry, have a homebrew

 

[teetee523]

brewit2it, thanks for your response! Since I am starting out I have been a little confused by the variety of responses. Also, the store we purchased the kit from has a video on their site showing 2 stage fermentation, but I think what got to me was racking to the carboy so soon (3-7 days). I was hesitant to do this because it just seems so soon and like it would mess up the fermentation process!

Anyways, for this batch we will go ahead and do what you said (2 wks in the bucket, a week in the carboy, then bottle with bucket). Again, thank you so much, glad to know that we had the right idea in mind!