Tweaking a process

[Redlantern]

Hi all – I am looking at changing from fly sparge to batch sparge. There seems to be some advantages to this choice and I was wondering what the consensus is. We have all read and formulated opinions about the best process and have our biases. Hearing about your experiences and decision making processes is of great interest to me.

At the moment, I am trying to slowly optimize my process.

My system is the basic three-tier igloo cooler system. Right now, mash efficiency is in the upper 70’s to 80-ish percentage wise and brewhouse efficiency is getting into the 70’s as well. I am going the right direction.

Recent purchases are a grain mill and pH meter. Bru’n spreadsheet is being used for chemical additions. Process involves monitoring mash water pH, sparge water pH, and mash pH 15 minutes in (for next batch adjustments if needed). Mill is Monster Mill 3-roller model. Adjustable gap set at .025” pH meter is Milwaukee MW-102.

Last batch, all numbers were hit spot on or better and the batch is doing great. (Mash pH 5.35, OG Target 1.080, Actual 1.081. Pre-boil volume target 6.75 gallons, actual 7.12 gallons). This is the second consecutive batch where numbers have been bang-on or better.

The objective is to make improvements without spending any more money - emphasizing creativity before capital. For now, attention is being placed on sparge process and technique. Saving time without losing efficiency is an improvement in my book. Any ideas, experiences or other information that could help polish a process?

 

[Homercidal]

Honestly, you seem to be doing very good as it is. About the only downside to Fly Sparging that I can think of is time. It's not even THAT much more time to Fly Sparge, IMO.

Now take that with a grain of salt, because I have never Fly Sparged. I don't see a reason to change at this time. Both methods can have similar efficiencies. I recommend whichever works best for your equipment setup, or your preferred process. I may Fly Sparge in the future when I build my EHERMS rig, but only because it will likely be really easy to do it then, and more difficult to Batch Sparge.

Efficiency is not the be-all-end-all in brewing. A reasonable efficiency is all that anyone could want if their beer is turning out good. Homebrewers don't have to worry as much about cost, so achieving a really high efficiency shouldn't be a target, IMO. Makes a difference when you are spending thousands in a batch.

 

[Redlantern]

Even looking to save time and reduce wasted busy work. To me, that is optimizing my process as well. The fewer things I try to monkey with durring a brew, the fewer opportunities there are for mistakes

 

[mongoose33]

I think you have the right idea--continuous quality (or process) improvement.

I batch sparge--never tried fly sparging, seemed like it not only takes longer, but you run the risk of channeling. While I understand it is theoretically more efficient, like you I'm in the high 70s to 80 in efficiency, and I think that's pretty good.

Every time I brew I try to do something better. Lately I've been paying more attention to the grist temperature prior to mashing as that interacts with the water temp to produce mash temp.

Something else I've done which speeds things up is to pull a hop sock over the torpedo screen that feeds the ball valve in my Igloo mash tun. This means I don't have to futz around w/ setting the grain bed for vorlauf; I just open the valve slowly, increasing volume over maybe a minute, and it drains. Saves time with both first and second runnings, maybe 10 minutes or so, as not only am I drawing off wort sooner, I can do a higher rate.

 

[Redlantern]

My recent change has been the incorporation of a “partial batch sparge” as I have phrased it.

To start, I will vorlauf to clear the wort (do not know if it is necessary, but I like doing it).

For the partial batch sparge, I will pull off enough wort so that the liquid level sets just below the top of the grains (just over a gallon) and then close the valve. It seems to compact the grain bed quite nicely.

At that point, the sparge water is added to where there is 2 – 3” of clear water on top of the grain bed.

Next, the valve on the mash tun is cracked open to collect wort. The flow of sparge water from the HLT is increased to a rate where it is outrunning the wort but not stirring up the top of the grain bed too much. Since there is normally capacity in the mash tun to hold the sparge water, there is no need to watch for overflow. I let it all drain into the mash tun within a few minutes

this gives me about 45 minutes of time to clean things up, put things away or take care of things around the house. There has not been a negative effect from doing this and it makes me wonder if I can improve further.

 

[kombat]

I've done both, and I prefer fly sparging. I don't find it takes any longer, but this may be because of the way I brew. At the end of the mash, I recirculate/vorlauf considerably longer than most people (like, 20 minutes), until the wort is exceptionally clear. Then I start collecting wort in the kettle. If I were to batch sparge, I'd spend another 20 minutes recirculating/vorlaufing. But with fly sparging, once I've started collecting wort in my kettle, that's it. Also, it allows me finer control of my volumes. I just sparge until I reach my desired pre-boil volume, then stop. No worrying about over/undershooting my sparge water volume and having wort left over or coming up short.

 

[Redlantern]

Something else I've done which speeds things up is to pull a hop sock over the torpedo screen that feeds the ball valve in my Igloo mash tun. This means I don't have to futz around w/ setting the grain bed for vorlauf; I just open the valve slowly, increasing volume over maybe a minute, and it drains. Saves time with both first and second runnings, maybe 10 minutes or so, as not only am I drawing off wort sooner, I can do a higher rate.

This is good food for though there. I am running a false bottom, but wonder if there is good way of incorporating that concept.

 

[mongoose33]

This is good food for though there. I am running a false bottom, but wonder if there is good way of incorporating that concept.

You could do that with a Brew in a Bag brew bag. Just put it in the mash tun, add water and grist, do your normal thing, then drain it. Sort of like BIAB but simply using the bag as a filter. It would allow you to easily sparge since there would be no need to worry about setting the grain bed for that in addition to the first runnings.

 

[Redlantern]

I could crush finer and get a better yield/efficiency doing it that way....


HMMMMMM

 

[schatzke]

I use a BIAB bag in my 10 gal cooler MLT instead of a false bottom and it works great. Crush it until you are scared as they say.
I don't even bother heating my batch sparge water anymore, just have it sitting in a bucket so when the MLT is drained(no vorlauf needed with the bag) I just dump in the sparge water, quick stir and drain.

 

[OdeCloner]

I find fly sparging can actually save time over batch sparging. As soon as there's maybe 1 gallon in the boil kettle, light the flame and get it heating. Keep the flame underneath the kettle as your fly sparge proceeds and by the time it's done, the whole boil kettle will be just about boiling. With a batch sparge, you have these big slugs of wort to heat up. I find that takes more time than incrementally heating the runnings from a fly sparge.

Yes, the sparge step takes longer, but the TOTAL brewday time is reduced -- which is all I care about.

 

[mongoose33]

I find fly sparging can actually save time over batch sparging. As soon as there's maybe 1 gallon in the boil kettle, light the flame and get it heating. Keep the flame underneath the kettle as your fly sparge proceeds and by the time it's done, the whole boil kettle will be just about boiling. With a batch sparge, you have these big slugs of wort to heat up. I find that takes more time than incrementally heating the runnings from a fly sparge.

Yes, the sparge step takes longer, but the TOTAL brewday time is reduced -- which is all I care about.

When I batch sparge, I drain into a smaller kettle, then transfer to the boil kettle and get it going. From the time I start draining the first runnings to having wort on the boil it's.....maybe 8 minutes?

 

[OdeCloner]

When I batch sparge, I drain into a smaller kettle, then transfer to the boil kettle and get it going. From the time I start draining the first runnings to having wort on the boil it's.....maybe 8 minutes?

I'm doing 10gal batches. Perhaps that accounts for some differences. As always YMMV.

 

[IslandLizard]

I batch sparge, 2x with equal volumes. 52 qt Coleman cooler with a C-PVC manifold.

I built the manifold in case I wanted to fly sparge, but never saw a need for it. Besides, how does one do a mashout in a plastic vessel? Adding a gallon or so of boiling water?

 

[kombat]

As soon as there's maybe 1 gallon in the boil kettle, light the flame and get it heating.

Ah yes, I do that to, I should have mentioned that.

I built the manifold in case I wanted to fly sparge, but never saw a need for it. Besides, how does one do a mashout in a plastic vessel? Adding a gallon or so of boiling water?

I use a 70 qt Coleman Extreme plastic cooler when doing 10 gallon batches. I don't actually even have a manifold for fly sparging. All I do is cover my grain bed with aluminum foil after dough-in, and poke a few small holes in it (with the thermometer that came with my turkey fryer kit). This also helps the mash hold its temperature. Then at the end, I take a fresh sheet of foil and fold it over the end of the cooler opposite the outlet port. I clamp my recirculation hose such that the flow lands on the foil against the back wall of the cooler, then trickles down over the main (perforated) foil, and gently sinks back down into the grain bed.

Once I'm done recirculating, I move the hose to the boil kettle and direct a new hose from my HLT to that same position in the mash tun, and begin flowing hot (180° F), fresh sparge water onto the grain bed, allowing about a half inch or so of water atop the grain bed, while collecting wort in the boil kettle, with the burner going.

 

[Redlantern]

At this point, I am interested in incorporating the brew bag to my mash tun and milling the grain finer. Seems that I should get better extraction that way.

I also like the idea of begin heating the wort early on. Will be hard to let go of pre-boil gravity readings, but if it is not a competition batch I am adjusting to get the desired gravity units, it probably does not matter...

 

[IslandLizard]

At this point, I am interested in incorporating the brew bag to my mash tun and milling the grain finer. Seems that I should get better extraction that way.

I also like the idea of begin heating the wort early on. Will be hard to let go of pre-boil gravity readings, but if it is not a competition batch I am adjusting to get the desired gravity units, it probably does not matter...

Yes, mash efficiency lies mostly in the crush.

You're not evaporating much while bringing the wort to a boil during lautering. Still take that pre-boil reading when your kettle is "full." Better yet, always take a (refractometer) reading of the first runnings. If something went wrong in the mash, for whatever reason, you get an early warning that way. Only happened once to me, but saved the day (and the beer).

My first wort hops (FWH) also hit the boil kettle once I've collected my first 2 gallons.

 

[Redlantern]

My first wort hops (FWH) also hit the boil kettle once I've collected my first 2 gallons.

Nice to have a consistent process on that. Good idea

 

[mongoose33]

At this point, I am interested in incorporating the brew bag to my mash tun and milling the grain finer. Seems that I should get better extraction that way.

I also like the idea of begin heating the wort early on. Will be hard to let go of pre-boil gravity readings, but if it is not a competition batch I am adjusting to get the desired gravity units, it probably does not matter...

I always start heating the wort as soon as I can. Once I have all the wort in the kettle, I take a reading w/ a refractometer. Since the wort isn't boiling yet, it's still pre-boil gravity. A tiny bit may have evaporated but not enough to matter.