trub filter

[SanPancho]

I think if you chill it cold, remove chiller (assuming IC), then do whirlpool and let it settle at least 30m, and then use one of the filter canister you should be pretty clear.

they sell little 90s that can be used as a racking arm/pick up inside kettle. Haven’t tried but that might also help?

The mac daddy seems expensive vs the unit i bought, but appears the same canister. Even that amazon link shows an identical unit for 14bucks (freq. bought together). At that price, why not give it a go?

Also there are ph/ion situations that inhibit good hot/cold break. Dont recall but maybe investigate that as well. Since you seem to be following a pretty common process with whirlfloc, cooling, etc it might be something in the chemistry dept if your trub isn’t settling out well. Worth a little research.

 

[TwistedGray]

I was thinking about this yesterday as I was brewing as well.

Did someone already offer this idea?

Why not rack the wort into whatever your fermentation vessel is after you cool it off? That should let you leave the vast majority of trub behind.

In addition someone else already said you should bag the pellets instead of just dumping them in. That'll certainly help.

 

[ESBrewer]

It sounds as if OP is getting trub along when transferring to fermenter. I don't think there's any magical solution other than being more careful and setting up the equipment so that the trub does not get disturbed during the transfer process. Whirlpooling and kettle finings are methods that may help. Especially some cold break particles tend to be very small and it may be hard to filter all of them using a filter (filters with ultra fine pores are definitely going to get clogged). It depends on how the wort is exactly transferred, but you want to keep the flow rate down and set up the equipment so that you can avoid disturbing the trub. If you still get some trub you could probably let the trub settle again in a cold place and transfer second time. If there is a very small amount of trub in the fermenter, it is probably going to settle anyway and is not going to ruin your beer, especially if you don't incubate it in the primary for a month or full seven years like some people do

 

[MSK_Chess]

I want clear wort as well, and that's why I love my HERMS. My wort is crystal clear.

Not only for the reasons listed above, but also if I have a haze in the final beer, I know it's not a starch haze or other mash/boil related reasons. Call me shallow, but I love a commercial quality crystal clear beer in my glass. Some of my IPAs may have a tiny hops haze, but overall they are clear and I want to maximize the colloidal stability of the finished beer.

Sure thing, getting clear wort is not usually a problem pre boil, if you circulate either through a stainless false bottom, or a bag or whatever but man I am loathe to put any of that post boil gunk in my fermenter. If at very least for harvesting slurry if you have clear wort going in you get super clean yeast, its awesome.

 

[MSK_Chess]

It sounds as if OP is getting trub along when transferring to fermenter. I don't think there's any magical solution other than being more careful and setting up the equipment so that the trub does not get disturbed during the transfer process. Whirlpooling and kettle finings are methods that may help. It depends on how the wort is exactly transferred, but you want to keep the flow rate down and set up the equipment so that you can avoid disturbing the trub. If you still get some trub you could probably let the trub settle again in a cold place and transfer second time. If there is a very small amount of trub in the fermenter, it is probably not going to ruin your beer, especially if you don't incubate it in the primary for a month or full seven years like some people do

all whirlpooling does is move the trub into the center of the kettle and leaves a space around the perimeter. Actually the solution is probably a combination of various things, whirlpooling, cooling and mechanical filtration.

 

[Miraculix]

ok I was hoping to aviod this, but its the second time its been asked.

Cloudy wort can contain anywhere from 5 to 40 times the unsaturated fatty-acid content of clear wort, an important fact because unsaturated fatty acids can have a significant negative effect even at low concentrations. what effect?

1. they work against beer foam stability
2. they play an important role in beer staling

That is the first answer I would personally consider a valid reason I got in this whole topic.

Thanks.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I think if you chill it cold, remove chiller (assuming IC), then do whirlpool and let it settle at least 30m, and then use one of the filter canister you should be pretty clear.

they sell little 90s that can be used as a racking arm/pick up inside kettle. Haven’t tried but that might also help?

The mac daddy seems expensive vs the unit i bought, but appears the same canister. Even that amazon link shows an identical unit for 14bucks (freq. bought together). At that price, why not give it a go?

Also there are ph/ion situations that inhibit good hot/cold break. Dont recall but maybe investigate that as well. Since you seem to be following a pretty common process with whirlfloc, cooling, etc it might be something in the chemistry dept if your trub isn’t settling out well. Worth a little research.

pH was 5.5 in mash and 5.2 post boil, infcat my problem might be the opposite, my process is such that I produce copious amounts of precipitated proteins.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

ok I was hoping to aviod this, but its the second time its been asked.

Cloudy wort can contain anywhere from 5 to 40 times the unsaturated fatty-acid content of clear wort, an important fact because unsaturated fatty acids can have a significant negative effect even at low concentrations. what effect?

1. they work against beer foam stability
2. they play an important role in beer staling

Sure thing, getting clear wort is not usually a problem pre boil, if you circulate either through a stainless false bottom, or a bag or whatever but man I am loathe to put any of that post boil gunk in my fermenter. If at very least for harvesting slurry if you have clear wort going in you get super clean yeast, its awesome.

But it all drops out in the fermenter. Not to mention many use gelatin to clear even further. I filter with a 1 micron filter these days and get pretty clear beer. I've never had an issue with head retention or staling but my kegs are usually kegged within 2 weeks and kicked in 2 weeks so I suppose that's not really an issue. I almost always use an unwashed trub filled yeast from a mason jar and haven't had any problems. The only variable I could see is if these fatty acids had an effect on the yeast during fermentation. I skimmed though the link you sent over. I "thought" it said the acids helped the yeast but could be wrong. I give it a deeper read later.

 

[MSK_Chess]

That is the first answer I would personally consider a valid reason I got in this whole topic.

Thanks.

No worries, its all good, there are other reasons like yeast collecting, the yeast you get from having clear wort in the fermenter is awesome, no need to wash it, just put it in a jar and repitch it. Also sometimes if you have trub it can coat the yeast and lead to less than stellar fermentation.

 

[MSK_Chess]

But it all drops out in the fermenter. Not to mention many use gelatin to clear even further. I filter with a 1 micron filter these days and get pretty clear beer. I've never had an issue with head retention or staling but my kegs are usually kegged within 2 weeks and kicked in 2 weeks so I suppose that's not really an issue. I almost always use an unwashed trub filled yeast from a mason jar and haven't had any problems. The only variable I could see is if these fatty acids had an effect on the yeast during fermentation. I skimmed though the link you sent over. I "thought" it said the acids helped the yeast but could be wrong. I give it a deeper read later.

yes but have you compared it to clear wort going into the fermenter? anyway i didn't want it to be a discussion about why i want clear wort in my fermenter, I just do and I really wondered why there are not more DIY trub filters. Maybe people don't care enough about it, who can say?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

yes but have you compared it to clear wort going into the fermenter? anyway i didn't want it to be a discussion about why i want clear wort in my fermenter, I just do and I really wondered why there are not more DIY trub filters. Maybe people don't care enough about it, who can say?

You did say that from the beginning.... Hale and hearty!!

 

[SanPancho]

And theres always the trub trapper.TM.

Whirlpool builds a cone, you pickup from the side. Thats why i mentioned the little racking arm. Trapper i mentioned above is supposed to be physical barrier between the cone and your pickup. Seems bit overkill, but if you are that anti trub its worth a look.

And ph isn’t the only factor. Ion chemistry also plays a part. Bit hungover so not going to go further than that. Kid is driving me crazy.

 

[mongoose33]

I am not quite sure I understand what you mean? Are you referring to the gauge of the filter medium? Is this cross sectional area? I can tell from experience that a 10 micron filter is too narrow, it filters excellently but is easily blocked by protein and break. some are suggesting as high as 300/400 mircon which I would think lets through a fair amount of trub. I probably would like to go anything high than 50-60 micron. a compromise of sort must be reached though. I have orderd some stainless mesh for experimental purposes, 400 mesh which is 37 microns and 300 mesh which is like 50 microns, lets see how they work out, they might be too fine, i dunno.

Looking at that tube again, it appears that the diameter is about...what?.....5 cm? This is the cross section to which I'm referring. Once the top of that cylinder is clogged with stuff, it doesn't matter how much below it isn't clogged. That's why, generally, you want as large a cross section as you can get to filter, so there's more area to catch particles before they clog the filter and impede the flow.

That's why I don't think it's likely to work very well.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Looking at that tube again, it appears that the diameter is about...what?.....5 cm? This is the cross section to which I'm referring. Once the top of that cylinder is clogged with stuff, it doesn't matter how much below it isn't clogged. That's why, generally, you want as large a cross section as you can get to filter, so there's more area to catch particles before they clog the filter and impede the flow.

That's why I don't think it's likely to work very well.

its quite interesting I think the idea is, is that it filters from the bottom up, but i understand what you are saying. The chances of becoming clogged I think are pretty minimal, what is more likely to happen is that the filter medium becomes saturated and is no longer able to provide clear wort, this is what happens when I use a 10" cannister filter under gravity. Probably we would need a combination of things, whirlpool, cooling and mechanical filtration. If you have found a way please let me know.

 

[mongoose33]

its quite interesting I think the idea is, is that it filters from the bottom up, but i understand what you are saying. The chances of becoming clogged I think are pretty minimal, what is more likely to happen is that the filter medium becomes saturated and is no longer able to provide clear wort, this is what happens when I use a 10" cannister filter under gravity. Probably we would need a combination of things, whirlpool, cooling and mechanical filtration. If you have found a way please let me know.

Me? Found a way? I'm depending on you to figure this out!

 

[FunkedOut]

these gaskets might help you come up
with ideas:
http://www.brewerygaskets.com/screen-gasket

 

[wobdee]

I brew 3.5 gal batches, 3 of that goes to the fermenter, .5 is trub. I figure an extra handful of grain and efficiency loss is worth it. I also use a 75/25 Polyclar/Whirlfloc hydrated dose at 5 min before the boil end which seems to help with compacting the trub better than Whirlfloc or Irish moss alone. After 30-60min cooling and settling my wort is crystal clear. Hop spider helps as well.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

From experience those screen gaskets that @FunkedOut mention clog very quickly at the finer mesh... if you could possibly "stack" them (say 10 mesh between outlet and first connection, 20 mesh 2nd connection to valve, to 40 mesh valve to hose barb leading to fermenter) you might be able to get them to work. I have experimented with just a 40 mesh and 2 oz of hops, and it clogged within minutes.

 

[Konadog]

How about something like this and you can fill it with what you want, or use the SS scrubbers like they show. http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Wide-Mouth-Canning-Jar-Hop-Filter-NPT-Male-Kit.html

 

[milldoggy]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/hop-quesadilla.305073/

This works for me, the break material and small hop debris from a filter bed on the screen. I get super clean wort. You be amazed at what it stops, even with a hop spider

I also use the 500 micron hop spider also for hops. I typically put it for entire boil, regardless if I used fwh or boil hops. I take it out after 45 mins and clean it. This gets rid of boil hops(if any) and a ton of break material. I put it back in for flame out hops.

 

[milldoggy]

Here is the pic, this is with a spider also in use

 

[MSK_Chess]

Me? Found a way? I'm depending on you to figure this out!

lol fat chance of that, heck i am even considered loading up an aquarium cannister filter with perlite and seeing what happens. It has different trays that you can load with different gradients of filter medium. Its an insane idea. Anyway I will wait for stainless mesh and conduct some little experiment and see if it draws any conclusions.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Here is the pic, this is with a spider also in use

View attachment 560666

awesome, look at all that goo! what gauge is said filter mesh if you don't mind me asking. I have an idea that i could cover a stainless steel domed false bottom with such a mesh. I have a 30cm (12") one and i think a 22cm (9") one lying around somewhere.

 

[milldoggy]

Read the link, last post previous page, describes the build. It is not a dome, but a sandwich with a dip tube in it. The large surface area on top filters a lot, screen below tube gets the rest. Kal at the electric brewery has some more info on it also.

The trick with these is to slow the flow once the top is exposed as you do not have wort pushing down. I monitor the output hose and ensure the pump is not pulling to fast

 

[day_trippr]

Seems like a hella amount of hop debris escaped the spider.
I have a taco but always found it a pita to use, but my 400 micron spider doesn't pass anywhere near that amount of pellet material...

Cheers!

 

[FunkedOut]

In the thread @milldoggy provided, is a link to this filter:
https://www.brewershardware.com/Wort-Strainers/

Maybe you could fashion a finer mesh filter net to slide over that tube. It’d be nice if that could be done with a 1 micron screen for filtering into serving keg.

 

[milldoggy]

Seems like a hella amount of hop debris escaped the spider.
I have a taco but always found it a pita to use, but my 400 micron spider doesn't pass anywhere near that amount of pellet material...

Cheers!

I went with 500 micron spider for better flow. It may look like only hop, but a lot of break and trub. Just the hops color it. I like the two filter method works for me and I get amazing flow still.

 

[milldoggy]

In the thread @milldoggy provided, is a link to this filter:
https://www.brewershardware.com/Wort-Strainers/

Maybe you could fashion a finer mesh filter net to slide over that tube. It’d be nice if that could be done with a 1 micron screen for filtering into serving keg.

I used one of these from conical to keg with 200 micron, works awesome

Details: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/636379/

 

[mlafnitzegger]

I just made this.

 

[bairsbrewing]

I just made this.

View attachment 560720 View attachment 560721

Interesting. Would like to see pictures after collecting!