Troubleshooting RIMS controller with MyPin TA4 PID and Fotek SSR

[Geordan]

Hey all, I'm hoping for a bit of advice troubleshooting my new RIMS controller. It's made up of a MyPin TA4 PID, 40amp Fotek SSR and an RTD.

It's all wired up, and here's the behaviour:

• Probe reports accurate temperature to PID
• PID seems to accept new set points
• If power switches (Pump interlock and Element) are on, element is always on
• Disconnecting the signal voltage lines from the PID turns element off; shorting the two leads together (shorting the control terminals on the SSR) turns element on
• Swapping the control leads on the SSR does not appear to change the situation

My interpretation (with the assistance of a much more capable friend) is that the SSR is likely functional, but there's a setup or wiring issue with the PID. Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Brumateur]

shorting the two leads together (shorting the control terminals on the SSR) turns element on

It doesn't sound right. What exactly Fotek SSR model do you have? Is it DA or VA series?
What is TA4 type - SNR or RNR?

Wiring diagram and pictures will help to investigate this issue.

 

[Geordan]

It's a Fotek SSR-40VA (this one: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290913682536)

It's a TA4 SNR - (this one: http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B005NGL53W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20)

Here's the wiring diagram:

 

[Brumateur]

Bad news you can't use VA SSR with that PID.
VA can be used with relay output. For example TA4-RNR.
For your PID you need DA version of Fotek SSR.
But there is good chance that you burned SSR output of your PID. Disconnect SSR and try measure output voltage from SSR. It shoud be 12-24 V when "out" LED at PID control panel is ON.

 

[Geordan]

Would you mind elaborating, Brumateur? It sounds like I've made some assumptions about the equipment and am mistaken.

EDIT: What I'm confused about is how I could have burned out the SSR outputs -- the SSR doesn't return AC to the PID, it just closes a circuit, right? How could the PID have burned out?

 

[Brumateur]

Fotek SSR-40VA is designed to be controlled by potentiometer connected between leads 3-4. See datasheet http://www.servo.com.hk/pdf/Temp_Controller/SSR_series_adju.pdf

This way you can gradually adjust output from zero to your supply voltage (ie 0-120V or 0-240V)
When leads 3 and 4 opened there is no output if shortened it gives you full power. So you can use this SSR if your PID has relay outpyt (like TA4-RNR)

But your PID (TA4-SNR) has voltage output (I don't remember either it 12V or 24V) to control SSR such as SSR-40DA (http://www.fotek.com.hk/page1e.htm)

So you need to buy either TA4-RNR or SSR-40DA. SSR is cheaper. But when SSR-40VA is connected to 110V there is 110V voltage on control leads. So when you connected it to your PID you had a good chance to burn output transistor in PID.

Thats why I recommend to test your PID output with voltmeter.

 

[Geordan]

Well damn. I'm travelling until later in the week so I will have to check when I get home. Beginning to regret this RIMS project Thanks for your help.

 

[augiedoggy]

Hey all, I'm hoping for a bit of advice troubleshooting my new RIMS controller. It's made up of a MyPin TA4 PID, 40amp Fotek SSR and an RTD.

It's all wired up, and here's the behaviour:

• Probe reports accurate temperature to PID
• PID seems to accept new set points
• If power switches (Pump interlock and Element) are on, element is always on
• Disconnecting the signal voltage lines from the PID turns element off; shorting the two leads together (shorting the control terminals on the SSR) turns element on
• Swapping the control leads on the SSR does not appear to change the situation

My interpretation (with the assistance of a much more capable friend) is that the SSR is likely functional, but there's a setup or wiring issue with the PID. Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!

theres a light on the pid that says output...it blinks on and off just look for the 24v to go on and off...best case scenerio you need to spend $6 for the right type of ssr... worst case you need to spend $27 bucks for another ta4 and ssr...
If thats the case you may want to spring the extra 4 bucks for the better TD4 series with manual control output option for fine tuning boils. Its not needed for a rims element but it can help BK setups.

 

[atoughram]

Beginning to regret this RIMS project

Dont do that!

It takes time and effort to get all the bugs worked out, but once it's running like you want it to, its well worth it.

 

[Geordan]

Okay, I'm home and here's what I've observed:
When the "Output" light is on, the control terminals are passing approximately 81mV; when it is off, they're passing 6.8V. Does this make any sense whatsoever?

 

[Brumateur]

I did check on my Mypin. Output should be around 0 (less than 1 Volt) when "out" is off and around 24V when its On.
Most likely your PID is broken now.

 

[Geordan]

Darn. Thanks so much for checking -- I just ordered another TA4-SNR and the correct SSR to match. Fingers crossed!

 

[Brumateur]

You can still use your old PID as a thermometer or even as a thermostat using alarm output.

 

[Brumateur]

If your other stuff are ready you can try to test run your RIMS in a thermostat mode. you just need very simple rewiring. Connect control leads of your SSR-40 VA to alarm output and programm alarm temperature, mode (3-Absolute value LO alarm) and a hysteresis, let say 0.5 Degree.

 

[Geordan]

Thanks for all your help Brumateur. Just to confirm I understand what you're suggesting:

- Wiring the Alarm 1 output to the SSR
- When the measured value falls below the set value, the "Alarm" goes off
- The Alarm trigger closes the SSR
- SSR energizes element
- Once the set value is reached or exceeded, the Alarm turns off
- Alarm off opens SSR and de-energizes element.

Have I got that correct? Is it essentially like controlling a RIMS tube with a "Dumb" controller like an STC-1000?

 

[Brumateur]

Yes , exactly. but with SSR you can control much more power than STC can and you can set very small hysteresis.

 

[Geordan]

Brumateur, you're the best! My "FrankenRIMS" works exactly as expected when set up as you've described. I didn't use it as a RIMS for fear of overshooting, but I DID use it to heat my strike water, and it worked perfectly.

Thanks again for all of your help! I'll report back when my new PID and SSR arrive.

 

[Brumateur]

You are very welcome.
As an another way to say "Thanks" you can click "Like this post " onmy posts: )

 

[Adam12]

Hi, I'm having similar problems with my TA4. I have a TA4 RNR and a SSR-40DA.
I've tested the SSR with a 5vdc power supply and it works.
The TA4 does not put out any voltage at the SSR leads 3 and 4. But when the output light is on the SSR output closes and reads 0 ohms between terminals 3 and 4. When the output light is off the circuit opens. Do I need to supply my own 5VDC power in-line with the SSR input to make this work? Or should the TA4 provide it's own output voltage?

 

[BorderBrewer]

The spec sheet says it should be able to control the SSR.


5、Control output: RELAY SSR SCR 4-20mA 0-10V (If 4-20mA output,you can choose PID control or analog output)

pasted from: http://www.mypinchina.com/en/Product.asp?ClassID=178

 

[Adam12]

Borderbrewer,

Thanks for the quick reply. I have the spec sheet as well, and have tried both the PID and analog modes with trL set to 10 and trH set to 100. I'm worried I might have a setting incorrect and don't want to order another PID if that is the case.

 

[Adam12]

Found my answer here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=495647

 

[augiedoggy]

From what I know of the mypin pids the "RNR" means its setup to control 2 relays and not an SSR. I own not "SNR" and SNS versions and the know the S stands for SSR and the R stands for relay..

Edit... sorry didn't read the last link till after posting..
At least you can use that pid to control a feementation fridge or keezer...

 

[Adam12]

So the RNR means that the PID is the actual relay. I'm using it to control a propane valve for my HLT HERMS with 25VAC so I'm pretty sure I can still use the PID if I supply the 5VDC to trigger the SSR through the PID.