Trouble with Saison Clone

[bmw0086]

Hello everyone!

I'm a somewhat new brewer and I wanted to brew a Saison clone. The recipe asked for a fermentation temperature of 79-85 F. This seems high to me, but I got the temp up to 80 and the yeast were very active starting about 6 hours after I pitched the yeast. This went on for about two days. Then I started smelling a moderate banana smell and was worried that I had a high fermentation temp, so I brought it down to 76 F. Once I did that the fermentation stopped within a few hours.

I have brought the temp back up to see if anything would happen, but absolutely no CO2 is leaving the primary.

Any help or advice with this and what should I do? Is anything wrong or am I worried for no reason?

 

[honeybadger]

It's hard to say. Saison yeast likes warm temps. A quick google search came up with this:

" Yeast character is the single most important flavor component in any beer, especially a Saison. Many homebrewers have successfully cultured yeast from the dregs of a bottle-conditioned beer like Saison Dupont, and there are also Saison yeasts available from White Labs and WYeast.
Fermentation temperatures for this beer are shockingly high, and require a leap of faith by brewers conditioned to never ferment anything above 70°. Saison Dupont ferments at around 90°, give or take a few degrees. In fact, if you are squeamish about fermenting this high, be prepared to wait weeks for primary fermentation to complete, as this yeast is notoriously sluggish at lower temperatures.
If it does conk out on you, don't panic, simply get it as warm as is possible (80° to 90°), and prepare to wait. Rousing, or stirring up the yeast sometimes helps, but not always. The yeast will work, but very slowly. Sometimes these beers can take three to four weeks to ferment out, but that's the price we pay for working with such an idiosyncratic yeast. It is worth it, as you will see and taste in the glorious resulting beer. "

So.... what yeast did you use?

 

[jaja]

yup what yeast did you use? I use the Belgian Wyeast version 3972 and it LOVES those temps. Takes about 5 weeks or so to get to terminal gravity though. I wouldn't worry too much about the smells coming out of the fermenter though, this beer will sort itself out.

Normally though I start mine out in the high 70's before pushing it up to the high 80's. Maybe thats why you are noticing more banana aromas in yours.

 

[MalFet]

Just to add another data point: this goes against the conventional wisdom with saisons, but I have always pitched my saisons cool, somewhere in the neighborhood of 67-68. I leave them there for a few days, and then start raising two degrees per day until I hit about 82-84. If you have trouble hitting your final gravity you can bump it up a smidge more, but I have never needed to.

I think the cooler temperatures allows a less frenetic reproduction environment, which gets me good numbers of healthy yeast. Pitching the right amount is also extremely important.

Don't mean to claim this is the only way to do it, but I've spent a lot of time trying to get 3724 to behave properly and this is what I've found to work best. It's a temperamental yeast for both temperature and pitching rates. If it's not happy, it will just pout and drop out of suspension.

Like the others have mentioned, we really need to know which yeast you are using to advise, but I am assuming you are using either Wyeast 3724 or 3711. I am extremely partial to the 3724, but people report 3711 being easier to use. I haven't done enough of a side-by-side to notice enormous profile differences between them.

 

[bmw0086]

Thanks for the help guys. I pitched WYeast 1214. As soon as I got home I raised the temperature a few degrees (slowly) and the yeast started doing their thing almost immediately after I got to about 79F.

I will stay here and slowly raise it up a little higher in the next few days. We will see what happens!

 

[pharmhouse]

I have a saison in primary as well. I used 3724. I pitched at 76F and let it raise to around 80F for a day and the air lock was going nuts! I didn't have control over my temperature and it shot up to over 100F! I emailed the yeast lab about this and they told me not to worry about it. Some off flavors might produce, but the yeast should be fine. He said to keep the temp at a steady 90F. I gradually brought the temp down to just under 80. I didn't want to bring it that low but I had a few kinks to work out with my heated fermentation space. The carboy was roused a bit as I transfered it to a different room. It didn't bubble at all for a few days. But just as the temp hit 80 it started to bubble, about once or twice per second. I've been raising just a little bit each day. It's still bubbling, about once every 3 seconds, and its been in primary for 11 days now.

Do you plan on racking to secondary? What about bottling? I just got a floor capper as a gift, doing the champagne style corks

 

[bmw0086]

I haven't decided if I am going to bottle this or keg it. I have three batches in primary right now, a hefe, an IPA and the Saison and only two kegs at the moment, so I might buy another keg or just bottle the Saison since it will probably be the last to finish it looks like.

 

[pharmhouse]

How's your saison coming along?

 

[passedpawn]

Thanks for the help guys. I pitched WYeast 1214. As soon as I got home I raised the temperature a few degrees (slowly) and the yeast started doing their thing almost immediately after I got to about 79F.

I will stay here and slowly raise it up a little higher in the next few days. We will see what happens!

Raising the temp will release CO2 from the liquid. Physics. I'm guessing your yeast was done with the initial fermentation.

At warm temps, the yeast will ferment much more quickly. The visible fermentation can be finished in a blink of an eye. It's a very good idea, though, to leave it alone for a few days after signs of fermentation are finished. Popular wisdom says that there are other plots afoot in your fermenter that may not have outward signs - let them finish.

 

[Doog_Si_Reeb]

Have you taken a gravity reading to see if fermentation is complete? Like passedpawn mentions, fermentation may have completed in the two days of vigorous activity. If you have reached your expected FG, then you won't need to worry about raising the temps back up to get activity. You can just leave it at a stable temp to let the yeast cleanup some of their fermentation byproducts.

 

[bmw0086]

Yeah, I think that is exactly what happened passedpawn and Doog Si Reeb. Fermentation was done, I hit my target FG, 1.008, and everything seemed on the up and up. I tasted a bit of the hydrometer sample and it tasted promising. I kegged and will cold condition for 3-4 weeks....we will see when that is finished, but looks like I was worried for no reason. But isn't that usually the case?