Trellis wire vs. String Risers

[Rockhillfarmlubecmaine]

We will be attempting to install 13 acres of Hops trellis in the next two years and after i get the 20 foot poles installed and run the overhead support cable. I want to use Stainless steel wire with hooking clips at the top and bottoms to remove the top and lay the entire vine down on a long trailer and pull out the wire from the vine. My question is: After reading just about everything about Hops growing that i could find, i need to know if Hops vines need the texture of the string to anchor itself to in intervals and continue growing upwards or will it simply follow something smooth like stainless heavy gauge wire? And another consideration is: will the steel wire possibly overheat from the sun and damage the vine? I'm looking for a more permanent cost effective system. Thanks All.

 

[GVH_Dan]

Sorry, permanent just doesn't exist.

Keep in mind that hops are a BINE not a VINE. Vines have little suction cups. Bines are more like velcro strips that snag onto things as they climb up. So if you are trying to get them to climb a stainless steel wire, they won't have anything to hook onto and slide back down.

Likewise, be careful of using non-natural twines. A lot of people will use nylon the fist year thinking they will just pull the bine off. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. So they cut it down and discover it won't pass through a Wolf harvester. So they pick by hand and let the remains compost until they can pull the nylon back out a few years later.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Totally agree with GVH Dan. They need traction to run up those strings! And something that can be put into a picker that will not be solid like a wire.

 

[Rockhillfarmlubecmaine]

So all i need is jute with the hooks and i'm all set right? I can use the miles of stainless for grape vines.
Would it be too much competition to grow grape vines on lower trellis wire with hops climbing above them growing in the same row? Kind of like Bio- dynamic shared growing space style?
Thanks
I'm planting 3000 onion sets today in the greenhouse and my back is killing me. lol.

 

[GVH_Dan]

The standard is to use coir, not jute.

Hops has a HUGE nutrient requirement so it probably would be too much competition to put grapes in. I've heard of people planting vegetables in the rows between but eventually the rhizomes are going to branch out into those areas. We only use low growing clovers as a cover crop around our plants.

 

[PleasantValleyHops]

Keep us posted, gvhdan covered a decent amount, 13 acres is no part time job!

 

[GVH_Dan]

I just re-read this post and saw your other post in introductions...you may want to read a bit more about hop production before you dive in.

Start with the cost of production document that Michigan State put out. No its not perfect nor is it tailored for Maine, but it is close enough to give you the numbers: http://hops.msu.edu/uploads/files/MI_Hops_cost_of_production_Bulletin-E3236.pdf

Then, rethink the "clips" idea. On a typical acre, you can put in 1200 plants if you are spacing them to allow a tractor between rows. That's 1200 clips...time 13 acres, that is 15,600 clips. Even at a $1 each, that's a significant investment. If the purpose is to make it easier to attach and remove the twine, it doesn't do you any good because once the hops wrap around the twine its nearly impossible to remove it for reuse. You also don't want to leave old dead bines hanging. Ignoring any disease issues, that will add a lot of extra weight.

What we do is run a 12 gauge wire about 1 foot off the ground along the poles. We then tie the twine from the top wire to the bottom wire. This will keep it secure without having to purchase a bunch of "W" clips.

I'm not trying to discourage you from doing this. By no means, growing hops has been one of the most interesting things I've done with my life. I just want to make sure you understand the realities. Sometimes change is good but there are reasons why the big guys in the PNW grow them the same way year after year...it works.

 

[PleasantValleyHops]

X2 gvh_Dan. When you think you've read everything about hops, just Google search "hops" And continue reading, I learn something everytime I look at my phone, walk my fields, dream about them. You get where I'm going. Going on year 4 of commercial growing and I continue to learn.

 

[Rypcord]

It wasn't letting me make a new topic in the Hops Growing forum, so I figured I'd tack this on here:


* I have two garden boxes that straddle a sidewalk (one on either side). I am planning on putting an Arbor linking the two garden boxes, and plan on growing Hops on it. So my questions are:
* * How many hops rhizomes should I plant / how many hops plants should I grow? I'm thinking one from each garden box and let them grow up to the top to mix?
** What type of rhizomes should I get? I plan on harvesting and cultivating them to brew with, but these are also meant to look ascetically pleasing too (front yard). I live in Central [Dauphin] PA, if that matters weather wise.


Thank you all.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

The standard is to use coir, not jute.

.

Dan, I have used both and really do not see any noticeable difference, what are the advantages?
Ray

 

[Rockhillfarmlubecmaine]

Well i've been reading just about all week. Mostly the University of Vermont's Hops program and still don't see any serious hurdles to making this happen. I've got a Hydraulic bending machine and the stainless heavy gauge wire for making the clips, i can get the jute in bulk, i have 1300 cedar poles 24-26 feet in length, i have 3 cases of welded stainless 1 inch eye hooks. I Just need some more cable. I Have some stainless steel wire thats rated for 1800 lbs. but on a span of 20 feet between poles i'm not sure if thats strong enough. I'll need auger anchors and more shackles.
As far as compost/soils, i have about 300 tandem truck loads of composted lobster and salmon carcasses from a Aquaculture farm. Super rich stuff with sea grass mixed in with peat from our local peat bog. I've been growing monster sized vegetables for years with this stuff. It averages 6.5 PH Mostly and is very fine in structure. I Can borrow a side dresser mulch spreader in exchange for a steady supply of vegetables. So i'm guessing i'm close to 70% on what i need to at least get started. Oh and i have a local guy that will lend me his old power company bucket truck to set our poles. Almost forgot that, and i have a power auger thats hand held, but think a tractor mounted one will be easier on my back.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Well i've been reading just about all week. Mostly the University of Vermont's Hops program and still don't see any serious hurdles to making this happen. I've got a Hydraulic bending machine and the stainless heavy gauge wire for making the clips, i can get the jute in bulk, i have 1300 cedar poles 24-26 feet in length, i have 3 cases of welded stainless 1 inch eye hooks. I Just need some more cable. I Have some stainless steel wire thats rated for 1800 lbs. but on a span of 20 feet between poles i'm not sure if thats strong enough. I'll need auger anchors and more shackles.
As far as compost/soils, i have about 300 tandem truck loads of composted lobster and salmon carcasses from a Aquaculture farm. Super rich stuff with sea grass mixed in with peat from our local peat bog. I've been growing monster sized vegetables for years with this stuff. It averages 6.5 PH Mostly and is very fine in structure. I Can borrow a side dresser mulch spreader in exchange for a steady supply of vegetables. So i'm guessing i'm close to 70% on what i need to at least get started. Oh and i have a local guy that will lend me his old power company bucket truck to set our poles. Almost forgot that, and i have a power auger thats hand held, but think a tractor mounted one will be easier on my back.

Sounds like you have a good plan. If you can rent a tractor mounted or bobcat mounted auger do it. Also just an FYI thing I used 5/8 rebar for the auger anchors that are three feel ling with a 7/8 lock washer welded on the top for the cable. Works great for me. Where the hell did you get 1300 cedar poles from? I am jealous. Also attend the hops 101 and 102 classes, I learned a lot from the 101 class and it was well worth it. GVH Dan can get you info.
Good luck with it setting up the trellis is the biggest job you will do with the field.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

It wasn't letting me make a new topic in the Hops Growing forum, so I figured I'd tack this on here:


* I have two garden boxes that straddle a sidewalk (one on either side). I am planning on putting an Arbor linking the two garden boxes, and plan on growing Hops on it. So my questions are:
* * How many hops rhizomes should I plant / how many hops plants should I grow? I'm thinking one from each garden box and let them grow up to the top to mix?
** What type of rhizomes should I get? I plan on harvesting and cultivating them to brew with, but these are also meant to look ascetically pleasing too (front yard). I live in Central [Dauphin] PA, if that matters weather wise.


Thank you all.

Hey I am in upper Dauphin!

If you are going strictly for the look I would do two cascade on each side. It should cover an arbor plenty. If you need them I have rhizomes up here that are already acclimated to this area,

 

[Rockhillfarmlubecmaine]

I Have a pile of rusted steel I-beams that i was thinking about cutting a 4 foot chunk off and burying at the ends of each row and attach the cable to that, but i think it might be more work. As for the cedar trees , thats about all i have growing is cedar and some hardwoods. I Have a swampy area thats never been logged and there are cedars in there that are close to 3 foot thick. But that place is also full of Bears. I Think those trees will be just fine where they are...lol.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

The rebar is easy and holds up well. I have a metal scrap yard that is always getting a ton of small sections that are discarded from construction. I think they cost like $1.50 ea. Just paint the tops yellow so you do not trip/mow over them. I think I would leave the bears alone also.

 

[Rockhillfarmlubecmaine]

Because of living in such a remote area i'm forced to improvise almost everything i have. From my greenhouses to irrigation system that pumps from a Glacier spring in my basement to building my own tools. I Took a snow blower drive unit and welded a dump cart frame with swivel wheels on the front for about $6.00 for materials to avoid buying a $4000 DR power wagon. So By fabricating my own system i should be able to squeeze those initial start up costs down a bit. I Already have the better part of my needs on site. It's more a matter of getting the actual labor done then buying the Rhizomes.
Whats really killing me right now is waiting for all this snow to melt. It's reduced from 9 feet to roughly 4-1/2 feet now with only two 40 degree days this week predicted. I Need to get started in the greenhouse and get the vegetable stocks going, then everything is set up automatic so i can concentrate on getting the Hops area cleared good and planting poles this year before winter hits again in late November. Then next year pick up where i leave off, good lord willing and the weeds don't rise.

 

[Rypcord]

I must be screwing up with the forums or something is going on, because I see no "quote" button or even a "make a new thread" button around here or anything.


Anyway....................


HalifaxHops:

I'm looking to do an arbor first this year, and maybe a few in a back row along a fence. And next year start really getting into. I don't have a *HUGE* property, but I have enough room to grow some. So for a decent (medium size, big enough to let people walk under through a side-walk path to the backyard) size arbor; two cascade rhizomes in each flower-bed going up the arbor? Probably one on the inside of the arbor in each bed, and one on the outside of the arbor trellis?

How much do you charge for rhizomes HalifaxHops? What all types do you have? How noticeable is one type from another? Like just how different does a cascade hop look vs. say centennial or some other type? I'm curious that if I grow multiple types of hops if I'd have trouble distinguishing them in a few years if they grow too big and start converging on each other.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

I must be screwing up with the forums or something is going on, because I see no "quote" button or even a "make a new thread" button around here or anything.


Anyway....................


HalifaxHops:

I'm looking to do an arbor first this year, and maybe a few in a back row along a fence. And next year start really getting into. I don't have a *HUGE* property, but I have enough room to grow some. So for a decent (medium size, big enough to let people walk under through a side-walk path to the backyard) size arbor; two cascade rhizomes in each flower-bed going up the arbor? Probably one on the inside of the arbor in each bed, and one on the outside of the arbor trellis?

How much do you charge for rhizomes HalifaxHops? What all types do you have? How noticeable is one type from another? Like just how different does a cascade hop look vs. say centennial or some other type? I'm curious that if I grow multiple types of hops if I'd have trouble distinguishing them in a few years if they grow too big and start converging on each other.

They will definitely grow together and just looking at them they all pretty much look the same. My cascades look different from the rest just the cones are longer and fatter than the rest. The bine themselves look the same. I would do two on each side of the arbor just to give it a filled in look on the sides. The top of the bines are "bushier" than the lower parts. Here is the latest and greatest link of what I still have.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f92/hop-rhizomes-sale-521881/