Total noob question here:

[TW1Kell]

My Son and D-in-Law gave me a Cooper's kit for Christmas, and I mixed the supplied Lager kit on 1 Jan. I placed it in my bike shop and it turned cold the next day. I saw no bubbles or anything until it warmed up on about the 7th. Now, the 11th, it has a little foam on top, and smells like homemade wine without the sweetness of the grapes. My OG was 35, and today it is 17. Have I made a batch of "diseased beer", or is this salvageable? I must admit that I kept it from a lack of time to toss it all out. Now it smells like a strong beer so I wonder if it's salvageable. It has alot of bubbles coming up when I used the hydrometer and it is a very cloudy golden color thru the hydrometer tube.

I realize that I should have made arrangements to keep it warmer, but don't really have a way to do that as my Wife doesn't want me "cooking beer" in the house due to her worries over the smell.

Toss it and wait for warmer weather? Or, can I still bottle this after it stabilizes as in the Cooper's instructions?

 

[msujack]

Lagers are kept cold for fermenting. SG dropping is a good sign, wait some more. Once it is constant for a few days, then you can think about bottling. Its not done fermenting. Don't throw it out, its working fine. it takes weeks to get it ready. the 1st til 11th is only 10 days, that would be too short to stop fermenting completely.

 

[TW1Kell]

Ok, thanks for the fast reply. Since it has stayed at a very low temp, I didn't know if it'd be ok to even hope for salvaging it. I was excited to try this, but was afraid that I was too much of a dolt to do it. I don't have any means of raising the room temp (old house that I keep my old Harleys and tools in) and was afraid that I'd have to find another place for brewing. Again, thank you.

 

[msujack]

btw, how cold is "cold"? Lagers ferment in temps that are below what my basement in Northern Illinois gets to. I would need a fridge to ferment lagers at a cool enough temp according to recommendations.

I would venture to guess that you have fermented it on the high side of the recommended temps and not the lower side.

I am fermenting some ales in my basement that sits around 68-70 degrees. My garage (uninsulated) is probably around 40ish.

Seriously, it sounds like your beer is doing fine. Leave it alone and check the hydrometer readings in a couple of days for a few days straight. Once that stops dropping, you are good for bottling.

 

[Bierliebhaber]

A few things:

1) Lagers ferment cooler than ales...need more info on temperatures (pitching temp and current temp).

2) Lagers take longer to ferment, but two weeks is a bit long for the attenuation you describe.

3) Dropping the temp too quickly could have shocked the yeast.

4) If there is a lot of bubbles, they can cause the hydrometer to misread. Give the hydrometer a spin and that will free the bubbles.

5) Warming the lager to room temp and rousing/swirling the fermenter periodically may help it to finish out.

 

[Homercidal]

First, does Coopers actually use a lager yeast with their kits? Lagers ferment best around 50 to start with. Fermenting at 65+ might lead to unwanted flavors. I wouldn't be surprised if they packaged ale yeast with their lager kits and just named it a lager. A light ale might resemble a lager in a lot of ways.

I had a similar problem. I put a Christmas Ale and a Barleywine in my ferm chamber a while back and the controller was not programmed correctly. Long story short the beer got cold and the yeast quit. After bringing it inside I had to pitch new yeast to get the Xmas Ale going again. Normally I would expect it to start up on it's own again, but it didn't happen. It's bubbling away and so far tasting pretty good if a bit sweet.

I'd say you're going to be fine if it's going again. Let it go and check it in a few days and see if the gravity has stabilized.

 

[TW1Kell]

The last few days have been in the mid 60's lows in the 50's, the 1st 7 days of it's life, the brew was subjected to highs in the 40's and lows in the 20's.

I may have goofed, but I stirred the whole thing a bit, right before I joined here. Just to see if it was moldy under the foam. It doesn't appear "moldy". It is at 14 Celsius, right now. 57 degrees according to an on-line converter...

Guys, I appreciate ya'all trying to help me save my beer! Any if ya'all ever head toward Mississippi, gimme a yelp! I'll have/buy a beer!

 

[TW1Kell]

Homer! (I love that nick, I had a Buddy that we called Homercidal, 'cause he WAS! haha!)

I dunno about that. I just used the contents of the Cooper's kit: The Can (like a thick syrup that smelled like beer, actually), Brew Enhancer #1, and the packet of yeast supplied with it.

I must admit to being somewhat totally stupid about all of this. I just did what the video said, except I didn't think about the temp requirements until after it was all mixed-up. THAT's when my Wifey asked, "Is that gonna stink up the house?" Off it went to "My House", the house I bought nect door for my shop. Someday, she's gonna kick me out to here, if I don't quit with the beer brewing and so forth! hehe. I put in a 'puter and away we go!

 

[WhiteEagle1]

Hey man,
I got the same kit for xmas.... Mixed mine on the 26th. What you described is very similar to my results so far. Mine started at a .047 and bottomed out at a .021. From what I read on here The Coopers Lager is really an Ale....not sure if that true or not. Also from reading on here I disreguarded the instructions it came with. I let it ferment for 2 weeks then bottled. Like you said I really didn't get that much fermentation kraussen, maybe an inch or so. When I bottled it, the beer smelled and tasted like applecider. I fermented in a room that was about 64*-65*. Figure I'll let it sit in the bottles for two weeks then stick one in the fridge and try it, if its not good wait another week try it again. At that point if its still not good I'm dumping the batch because I need the bottles. I'm relying on everyones advice and giving it a shot!

 

[TW1Kell]

I hear ya, WhiteEagle. I was just concerned about making something that was gonna make me n my Bro's sick. We're a lil pumped about doing this, as we love all kindsa self-sufficient things, and I was concerned. Heck of a note if I killed all of us with some bad brew! AAAGRGH! What a tombstone that'd make for!

 

[Homercidal]

Stirring it won't hurt it other than making you wait longer before drinking (unless you prefer a muddy glass of beer...) Note that if you sloshed or agitated it, you may have also encouraged it to pick up oxygen, which is not recommended for fermented beer as it will lead to oxidized flavors.

TW1Kell - I thought of my nickname while playing Duke Nukem 3D with my buddies on a LAN. We were using the Simpsons Sound Pack for taunting, and it just popped into my head. Originally it was Homercidal Maniac, but I shortened it. good times.

 

[unionrdr]

Ok,1st of all,the cooper's OS (Original Series) lager comes with their 7g ale yeast packet. So it's really a light pale ale. the cooper's ale yeast likes 62-72F. So going down into the 40's & 50's made it go dormant. Warming it to 64-68F in the beer is what the temp range refers to,not ambient temp.
Just let it go for a while till fermentation looks to have stopped,krausen goes down. Then take a hydrometer reading to see where you're at. Don't shake or stir it. As long as it's fermenting,you'll be ok. Once you get hydrometer readings that are the same 3 days apart,see how clear it is. If still cloudy,give it 3-7 days to clean up any by products of fermentation,& settle out more. It should be clear or just slightly misty at bottling time. You can see pics of it in my gallery as HB 1,somethin like that.

 

[ncbrewer]

As far as "cooking beer" in the house: Yes, brew day puts out a lot of smell (I think it smells great, but that's subjective). But I don't think fermentation puts out much smell. You might be able to set the fermenter in a closet (in a swamp cooler to control temperature, ideally) without upsetting SWMBO. Your beer will be much better if you can control fermentation temperature.

 

[TW1Kell]

Union, do you mean the collar thingy has set back down on the bucket? It is down, but I don't remember looking to see if it ever rose up off of it. (I AM so dumb about this!) I didn't think about it, but I guess the Klaussen(?) is a sleeve so that it can rise due to pressure? Makes sense. I'll watch for it, next time...DOH!

It being an Ale makes me happy, now I just hope it'll be drinkable. haha!

Homer, my Homer buddy has a life sentence because he truly IS! He actually told the judge that the guy "fell on his knife 17 times before he could slap him off of it! Takes all kinds, I guess? Good place for him...

Man, I hope this beer lives! I feel like I stabbed it a few times, myself. (sigh)

 

[unionrdr]

Fermentation doesn't kick much smell at all from the airlock. Maybe just brew when she isn't home,or adjust her attitude. It's your house too. I make damn sure she understands that real fast,since I pay the bills. Other than that,we have a good time.
Or maybe get her involved. I did,she liked my ales,got curious & wanted to brew a batch. Her second sits in bottles next to mine. Now that's an attitude adjustment.

 

[TW1Kell]

I hear ya, Union. She's slept in different hemispheres and tolerated alot from me in our 32 years. Since I'm halfbreed Kiowa, the house is hers, and I just live there with her. I paid for the houses, that's just the way we (Kiowa) are. She can't stand beer, likes sweet wines and mixed drinks, a lil. Kinda the soft, towngirl type. I'm her opposite, and well, I'm just scared of her lil bitty self. I'm more'n a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier, but she has that weapon...she cries if I say anything mean, so I gave up arguing long ago. Now, she feeds us, and I hunt work. Someday, I'll get back at it, the VA has released me from removing vertabrae from my neck, so maybe I'll be gainfully employed again! Won't accept a disability, I just wanna job. Thanks for the advice, but I know who cooks my meals.

signed: Whooped in Mississippi

 

[unionrdr]

By krausen going down I meant the krausen foam that forms on top of ale beers while fermenting. It goes down after initial,vigorous fermentation is over.

I hear ya, Union. She's slept in different hemispheres and tolerated alot from me in our 32 years. Since I'm halfbreed Kiowa, the house is hers, and I just live there with her. I paid for the houses, that's just the way we (Kiowa) are. She can't stand beer, likes sweet wines and mixed drinks, a lil. Kinda the soft, towngirl type. I'm her opposite, and well, I'm just scared of her lil bitty self. I'm more'n a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier, but she has that weapon...she cries if I say anything mean, so I gave up arguing long ago. Now, she feeds us, and I hunt work. Someday, I'll get back at it, the VA has released me from removing vertabrae from my neck, so maybe I'll be gainfully employed again! Won't accept a disability, I just wanna job. Thanks for the advice, but I know who cooks my meals.

signed: Whooped in Mississippi

I'm the G-G-G-grandson of a chiricahua Apache chief myself. While I let her run the house,I draw the line at takin my paycheck & runnin me. I guess that's the way we are. To bad she doesn't like beer. It was a shot,anyway. My lil ol' gal has a temper,but I've got a bigger one. Almost psychotic in my youth. But even the other Apaches thought the Chiricaua were that way. They just saw themselves as the protectors of the Apache nation. We just learned how not to argue,each other's limits,etc in some 34 years of marriage. Brewing beer is not unlike cooking a barley soup,albeit sweeter. Maybe try that angle. We both are good cooks,so that's cool. We're a great team in the kitchen. Maybe some day I'll relate an interesting experience I had the 1st time I made fry bread. That was wild!
I retired after some 31 years At Ford due to multiple injuries coming "back" to haunt me,& other lil medical things. Mostly just beaten down & tired. This brewing stuff helps a lot. Def theraputic. Over & above bein rhumatiz medicine at this point.
Maybe see if she want's to make a 5G batch of wine?

 

[TW1Kell]

I hear ya, Union. funny, Apaches come from the Kiowa. We're the Mother tribe of North American Athabascans. Kiowa, Commanchia, and Apache are all one. Mita kuye Oyasin, and all that. hehe I'm about 5 G's down from Satanta (White Bear). He's the old Kiowa that is always identifiable by his uncharacteristic (for us Indigs) Fu Manchu 'Stache and cock-eyes.

Yup, I've had my share of "moments", as well. It's easier if I let her have the house. I'm usually not in the same...area.

I now have just about 1/2" of pretty, white foam, this morning. It doesn't even cover the entire top of the beer, and it actually smells like beer! YAY! I'm starting to feel much better about this enterprise. Thanks for all of the help!

 

[unionrdr]

Athabascan,that was it! I couldn't remember the name of the mother tribe I found once. Now if I could just speak Apache. It was so wierd to find once again that our ancestors really are around now & then. Makes me feel better when they are. So it's wild that we came from the same tribe in regard to the old ones. Cool!
But yeah,the 1st time I made that kit I only got about 1/2 inch of krausen,so you're good there. So let it go till the krausen drops,& test it.

 

[TW1Kell]

Cool, cool, I was editting while you posted. Athabascan is our language base. We were the last to make "The Walk" across Baringia, the land mass that one connected Alaska and Kamchatka. It's now the Bering Straight between the US and the former Soviet Union. I spent my summers (early childhood)on the "Rez", with my Grand Parents. My Da wanted me to know who I was and where I came from. Athabascan is an almost lost language, outside of the tribes, and is easy to lose if you don't practice. I am no longer fluent. All have gone ahead, that I once spoke it with.

 

[unionrdr]

Cool, cool, I was editting while you posted. Athabascan is our language base. We were the last to make "The Walk" across Baringia, the land mass that one connected Alaska and Kamchatka. It's now the Bering Straight between the US and the former Soviet Union. I spent my summers (early childhood)on the "Rez", with my Grand Parents. My Da wanted me to know who I was and where I came from. Athabascan is an almost lost language, outside of the tribes, and is easy to lose if you don't practice. I am no longer fluent. All have gone ahead, that I once spoke it with.

Yeah,from my studies,they crossed over some 35,000 years ago. Wish my G-G-G-granpa would've passed down the language. He was my grandma's G grandpa. Pop had many native features,but grandma was a dead ringer for Geronimo (Gothlaya,I think his native name was). That's really interesting.
But I think it's fair to say all these brewing things I picked up so quick are also because of the German side that landed here in 1734. Rich folks that saved nada for me. Oh well...the beer is good.

 

[TW1Kell]

HAHA! I hear ya, My ma was german-Scots-Irish...other than Tizwin, I guess trhat's where I got my love for beer.

Have you ever had Tizwin? It's a cactus-based (if I remember correctly) beer made by Athabascans...hehehe, I think I have may just started something for you, if you haven't.

 

[TW1Kell]

O-o-o-o-K...my OG was "35" on 1Jan, the day I mixed. SG was at "17" on the 11th, and the temp was below the 10C that my thermometer strip shows...

13 and 14Jan, I've gotten an SG of "14", and it was below the 10C, again..we've had a cold spell. I have set the whole Pot out where the sun can warm it a bit. It is up to 10C. now. If I get a "14" tomorrow, should I bottle? It LOOKS and SMELLS like a good, light-ish ale, now. I am sooo happy that I posted and got all of Ya'all's input instead of dumping it all out! YAY!

Thanks for all the help, Fellas. Ya'all said give it 3 days at the constant SG, right? Will this cold spell effect that? Will my setting it in the sun change anything? It has a very light foamy head, one bubble thick, across the entire surface of the beer. A little clowdy, but golden colored and pretty, actually. As always, Ya'all's advice is eagerly awaited!

 

[Bierliebhaber]

I wouldn't. 10C (50F) is still very cold for an ale yeast. Do you have an electric heat pad (the kind for your back) that you could sit it on, or an electric blanket. It shouldn't really throw any noticeable odors at this point, if your wife doesn't mind you bringing it into the house to warm up for a few days. I would just like to see you warm it up to a consistent temp for a few day. Sounds like you have some real fighters there (yeast) I think they should be given the chance to finish the job. Just my $.02

 

[unionrdr]

HAHA! I hear ya, My ma was german-Scots-Irish...other than Tizwin, I guess trhat's where I got my love for beer.

Have you ever had Tizwin? It's a cactus-based (if I remember correctly) beer made by Athabascans...hehehe, I think I have may just started something for you, if you haven't.

wow,that's weird. We had some German ancestors that got mixed up with some highlanders & married into the family of an Irish warlord to keep the peace during Sir william Wallace's time. I've seem references to tizwin,but never more than that. I'd love to find a recipe for it,however old.
And I agree,warm it up for a couple days to give it every chance to finish fermenting. But you're def close to FG. Congrats man!

 

[TW1Kell]

I'll see if I can find that back pad...I thought that was my problem, a few years ago...turned out I had to have 2 verts removed from my neck. haha old war injuries, huh? Nothing like a broken neck to crimp your style...thanks for the advice. I think you guys have rescued my 1st beer! YAY

 

[TW1Kell]

Union, I hadn't noticed your post, so sorry. Tizwin was a thing my GrandDa told me about when we ere on the Rez. I remember that it was very strong and had my lil (8-9 yr old) butt, totally snockered, really fast! My german Grampy was a former Brew Meister's son (From Munich) and had intor'd me to beer at a very early age. He claims that was why I refused my bottle very young. He was mean and tough, and not prone to flambastery (as most WW2 Rangers all were, in my experience, not prone, that is). I wish I had paid more attention to each, at EVERY moment that they were speaking to me. As normal, my young mind picked-up on the things that "I" thought were important. I'll see what I can do about a Tizwin recipe...

 

[unionrdr]

Thanks man,cool story too. I was the same when I was young...now I know better. But it's too late to listen back at it. Dang me. I think I'll try another search for the tizwin. I tried Apache foods,nothin much there either. Gunna try again. My wife & son would truely love this. She always tells me how she's proud of my native ancestry. so this would be perfect & a truely beautiful thing man.

 

[TW1Kell]

Yup, you should ty a full, 4 round, Warrior's Sweat, sometime. Pahaai Sapa (crying for a vision), that's what truly opens your eyes to who you are. Also the name of the Black Hills, in Lakota. Sioux (oddly enough) is an Ojibwa/Chippewa term that means, "My enemy", but an Apache, would appreciate the meaning there, wouldn't he? (My enemy who fights me all the time) Almost every other tribal name translates to "The People", while some add what they are the people of...Do you know why an Apache has his tribal name? I sent a pm, but didn't see this before I did so...Ask me, if you wanna chat about that sort of stuff. I repressed it so long, because (as my Da pointed out) I was an Indig before it was cool. hahaha! I remember when they (whites) didn't even investigate when an Indig would get run over on the highays outside of the Rez's (it was just an Indian...)...OLD hat, sorry that I digressed..so long ago, it seems...pm me if you wanna continue the thoughts...? Mita kuye Oyasin...Nobody seems to rmember that, anymore.

 

[TW1Kell]

"14" for the 3rd day...still cold in here, the sun didn't do much for it, yesterday, 'cause it didn't stay out that long! haha! Couldn't find the backpad, so I didn't have any other way to warm it. (Extenuating circumstances that I won't get into, here) I don't expect to have any means of warming it for awhile...soooo...when do ya'all think that I should go ahead and try bottling it or some of it? I have the Cooper's kit bottles and lil tabs that look like hardcandy. Any suggestions?

As always, I wait for and appreciate any help offered...

 

[unionrdr]

If it's pretty clear,you could go ahead & bottle it. 2 carb drops for each of the cooper's PET bottles. You'll feel them get harder as they carb up. But that def needs to happen someplace around 70F. 4 weeks was best when I brewed that one on my 1st try. Still no good info on the tizwin,though...still searchin. but it does seem to be the Apache version of Chicha so far.

 

[TW1Kell]

Union!

Cool, Thanks. How full should I run them? Do I need to worry about them popping? When we made the Tiz (when I was a kid) GDa Howard just did it in a bucket and we drank it from that. I think he poured what was left into a big milk jar or 3, and it was all gone in 2-3 days, anyhow. Everybody came over and had some. Lotsa laughs on that occasion, I remember. All the Old Ones actin' like they were gettin over and all...The women were pissed! hahaha

Remember that anything listed as Kiowa, Apache, or Commancia will be the same thing. We were all of the same tribe until the 2 banishings. Apache and Commancia were sub clans until the SHTF. So, anything listing one will be applicable for the others, as well. I do recall the trm Maguey, as well. I just can't remember exactly how that fit in to all of this...

 

[unionrdr]

I think the Maguey was the corn beer that had agave in it. Better known as aloe,they cut the leaves of the huge bulb,& made a beer called paguey (spelling?) from the juices in them. Then the bulb was cleaned,sliced,& roasted. Then that,corn,& I hear spices were added to the boil. Then it was allowed to ferment. Sounds like a lambic to me so far.
Use a bottling wand to fill the bottles. Put two carb drops in each bottle. The cooper's brew kits have one called a little bottler that atatches to the spout on the spigot. It has a lil pin valve in the end of it. Insert it in the bottle till the pin valve hits bottom,& allow the bottle to fill to the top. The split second it does,pull down on the bottle 2" or so. That closes the valve on the bottling wand. Then slowly pull the bottle down off the wand. That'll creat the perfect head space by way of volume dissplacement. Then screw the sanitized caps down tight.
When you finish bottling,go back & give the caps another turn,as they seem to need it at that point to get them really good & tight. Then just box them up & wait the 4 weeks for them to carb & condition. The printed box the brew kit came in is just the right size to hold the 30 PET bottles. At least,the box from my micro brew kit was. And those PET bottles can take a heck of a lot of pressure from the co2. They get harder as they carb up.

 

[TW1Kell]

Cool! Thanks. About to bottle, in just a few minutes...YAY!

Yup, that sound right for Maguey...at least from what little I can remember...

 

[unionrdr]

That's good. I guess that means we're on the right track. I read that in one of the links on the ask search page. I saved the link so I can continue on from day to day. Gunna search wiki too.
Congrats on your 1st bottling day. Momma should let you put them in the house in a closet or something. They won't smell anything up at this point. Short of bottle bombs anyway. They need 70F to carb up & condition. Cold temps won't work for that.

 

[TW1Kell]

And.....bottled! 4 weeks, and I'm gonna see what I have! YAY! Darn dark bottles! I can't even admire the golden color, anymore! But, it did smell (okay, I tasted a bit, too) HOPPY! YAY!!!

I wanna try for an Irish Stout, next...I do love Murphy's and Guinness...YUM!

The KoB (Kingdom of Bailey) has bottled it's 1st beer! Now, to see if it's drinkable...

 

[TW1Kell]

Oh, and Momma said, "I didn't say you couldn't do it in the house! You kinda talked yourself into that." Age and experience...age and experience...I read between the lines a bit...I guess. HAHAHA! Now it's gonna move to "Our House". hehehe

 

[unionrdr]

Yup. Been there,done that! Ya gotta love it when the lil woman back peddles on ya! But hey,better for you & the beer. Maybe she meant for you not to BREW it in the house. Cause fermenters don't make that much smell at all through the airlock. Cool,better for you & the beer next time!
I wanna try making a milk stout after tasting the one from Left hand brewing. Wow! Was that stuff good. Try it if you can find it.

 

[TW1Kell]

Wilco! Hmmm...milk stout? Anything like a Boddington's Pub Ale? Or a Geneseo Cream Ale?

 

[unionrdr]

No,it's a dark stout that has lactose added to the wort. Maybe cold brewed coffee too? Cause it tastes like an ice coffee with stout in it. Good stuff man.