TOSNA (TiOSNA) for cider

[Drewed]

All the rage in the mazer camps now seems to be using Stagered Nutrients Addiations to improve the life of the yeast. Also included in the happiness of yeast drive is hydration, de-gassing / oxygenation. By not stressing the yeast the amount of "rocket fuel" can be limited, resulting in a mead that can be drunk at a very young age, like weeks rather than months or years.

Do these practices also transfer over to ciders?

 

[bembel]

The camp of devoted Scott Labs yeast jockeys is pushing the same agenda. Check out their website and any of the presentations from CiderCon. The basic premise is "sure Keeving works fine for some people but happy yeast produce less volatile sulfur compounds."

If you use an organic nutrient like Ferm-O which has no DAP you might not even need to do staggered additions since it's so slow releasing, maybe some of the Ice Cider makers could chime in since that's a lot closer to Mead in SG than regular cider

 

[bembel]

There's also some interesting research that a perfect environment for yeast at the beginning of fermentation sets up certain metabolic pathways responsible for certain desirable Ester and Phenol results that carry onto the next generations even after the nutrients are depleted

 

[Maylar]

In my opinion - no. Cider isn't mead.

Honey has almost no nutrients, apple juice does. The trace elements and thiamine are already there. All that's missing is a bit of nitrogen.

Meads are also higher gravity and alcohol than cider. Even the mazers will only use one nutrient dose with short meads (under 1.070 sg).

But the biggest reason not to use SNA with cider is that a quick strong ferment will blow away the subtle flavors and aroma of the apples. A cold, slow ferment with minimal or no nutrients at all makes the best cider.

Temperature affects this directly. A warm ferment without nutrients can create H2S. In my process, I never make cider above 65°F regardless of yeast, and with one dose of generic yeast nutrient up front I've never had sulfur or fusels. When I finally get a cooler and can maintain 50°F, I'll skip the nutrients.

See Claude Jolicoeur's book "The New Cider Maker's Handbook".

Cider isn't mead.

 

[CKuhns]

Agree with everything already said i would only add that Yeast selection plays a very important role. Be sure to select one that does well in cooler temperatures. Safeale S-04 does pretty well between 55 - 60 Deg F.

S04 Ideal Range is something like 59 to 68 Deg F but with a starter for 24 hours does well a little cooler.

S04 will make a dry, slightly tart flavor that is totally enjoyable for my taste if OG is 1.060+- a bit. Most ale yeasts will do well, experiment to see what works best for your taste.

Ciders like Mead get better with age, however if done well are certainly drinkable in just a few weeks to a month.

 

[koenigwi]

All the rage in the mazer camps

Forgive the noobishness, but why mazer? I get from the context that they're mead-makers, but google tells me a mazer is a German drinking cup.

 

[Drewed]

Yeah, well, there is a can of worms, isn't it?

A mazer is a cup. A Mazer is person who makes mead. I guess they don't want to be lumped in to the same brewer camp and beer makers. See also: Mead Maker, Meadhead, Methier -if you want to get medieval, Honey Horder, Bee Burglar - although that technically is the person collecting the honey, etc, etc.

 

[Paps]

Methier .

Tyrone Biggums?

 

[Drewed]

Lol, no that is actually what the mead maker was called in Medieval England and such.