Top 5 Dry Yeasts?

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Notty for me needs a few weeks to lose a bready yeasty thing I'm not too keen on.

I saw a similar comment (process changes based on strain of yeast) in a different topic recently

S23 needs that bit of lagering and then it's amazing ...

Over time, it will be interesting to see more of these ideas.

 

[Pehlman17]

I'm from England and have never left and I believe that liquid strains make the best English ales, if you want some yeast character - dry strains don't match up, apart from Verdant.

I hear a lot of good things about Verdant. I know most people seem to be using it for NEIPA but that’s not really my thing. I would love to try it out for a Best Bitter or something though if you think it would be a good choice. I assume it’s similar to London Ale III which I believe is the Boddinton’s strain, yeah?

 

[Yesfan]

This came out about 2 weeks ago. I like some of his brew series (Pilsners), so figured the dry yeast video he did might be of some use.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

S-04, English Ale. It has been known to win awards in national competitions.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

S-04, English Ale. It has been known to win awards in national competitions.

Curiousity question: Was this with the first pitch or on repitches?

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Aside: S-04 is one of those strains where, historically, people report weird unwanted characteristics on the 1st pitch and better results as it's re-pitched. Although, maybe there should be a "statute of limitations" on those reports, as dry yeast appears to improve over the years.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Curiousity question: Was this with the first pitch or on repitches?

---

Aside: S-04 is one of those strains where, historically, people report weird unwanted characteristics on the 1st pitch and better results as it's re-pitched. Although, maybe there should be a "statute of limitations" on those reports, as dry yeast appears to improve over the years.

In our example, the English Barleywine that took home a Gold, it was the 5th generation. But the first generation dry pitch was very good, with no problems.

Every yeast that has been used, dry or liquid, improves with each generation. Up through the 5th or 6th. Then they are pretty much stabilized with the fermentation characteristics.

For those who do not harvest yeast, you are not only dumping $$$ down the drain, you are also throwing away better brewing results.

 

[AlexKay]

For those who do not harvest yeast, you are not only dumping $$$ down the drain, you are also throwing away better brewing results.

An alternate perspective from Gordon Biersch (though of course, there's a big difference between a packet of dry and lab-propped yeast):

We grow our own yeast in propagators or biological reactors. Most breweries reuse their yeast by harvesting it from the previous tank to pitch the subsequent batch. This often causes mutations in the yeast that affect batch consistency. Hence, we utilize a new batch for each brew to have the same “mother” culture from batch to batch.

So I'm a little skeptical about the claim of improvement with every generation. The comparison is difficult -- at the very least, you'd want equal, measured cell counts, which if not controlled will likely be quite different between first and subsequent generations. I'll believe there's a perceptible difference between first and second. Anything beyond that ...can you tell the difference blind? I'd need data to convince me.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

This is anecdotal, but we are on our 30th (+/-) generation of Diamond Lager. The last keg of beer tastes just like the first one.

I do not buy the mutation theory.

 

[Yesfan]

This is anecdotal, but we are on our 30th (+/-) generation of Diamond Lager. The last keg of beer tastes just like the first one.

I do not buy the mutation theory.

You've re-pitched the same yeast 29 times?? I thought common knowledge was beer yeast poops out after 8-10 re-pitches.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

You've re-pitched the same yeast 29 times?? I thought common knowledge was beer yeast poops out after 8-10 re-pitches.

Yes. That is an old wives tale. There is a brewery in the UK that has been repitching the same yeast for decades.

Yeast does not deteriorate. It rejuvenates with each new generation. The secret to success is getting a clean harvest, and frequent brewing. Not letting the slurry sit more than a few weeks.

 

[Yesfan]

Mind blown..............

 

[AlexKay]

I do not buy the mutation theory.

It is well established.

There can be (and certainly are) differences of opinion about when to go back to a master culture (Gordon single pitch only, N pitches before reculturing, reculture after the occurrence of problems).

 

[Oleson M.D.]

There is a YouTube video of the UK brewery that has pitched the same yeast (harvested) since the 1800’s. Somebody might want to let them know about mutating.
I too thought that 6 to 7 generations is all you can get. I was wrong.

There are different procedures for different breweries. For example, the Hofbrau Brewery (Munich) repitches harvested yeast up through the 3rd generation.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

In our example, the English Barleywine that took home a Gold, it was the 5th generation. But the first generation dry pitch was very good, with no problems.

Thanks for the insights on the initial pitch and re-pitches with S-04.

I've seen a couple of other award winning recipes where re-pitched active dry yeast was used.

I'm still 'one-and-done' when using dry yeast. Investigating equipment and processes for re-pitching is on the ideas list, just not #1.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Thanks for the insights on the initial pitch and re-pitches with S-04.

I've seen a couple of other award winning recipes where re-pitched active dry yeast was used.

I'm still 'one-and-done' when using dry yeast. Investigating equipment and processes for re-pitching is on the ideas list, just not #1.

Try it, at least one time. You will never throw away yeast again. Major savings ($$$), and better beer!

 

[AlexKay]

I'm still 'one-and-done' when using dry yeast. Investigating equipment and processes for re-pitching is on the ideas list, just not #1.

What equipment and processes do you see yourself needing to have? I mean, sure, you could get a cylindroconical fermenter, dump trub, and then harvest yeast from the middle of the cone. But there's no equipment needed to just pour wort onto a previous batch's yeast cake.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What equipment and processes do you see yourself needing to have?

Let's go back to my 'curiosity question' - which was on winning recipes, dry yeast, and whether or not it was 1st pitch or later pitch.

I was curious because some people (anecdotally) report an undesired flavor when using 1st pitch of S-04, but the flavor goes away with re-pitches. Others don't get that undesired flavor on 1st pitch.

It may be that experienced brewers win competitions with a beer that coincidentally used re-pitched yeast. Maybe they would get the same result with a 1st pitch of the same dry yeast.

@Velnerj asks related question (re-pitching results in better beer?) in a new topic: Repitching dry yeast .

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Already stated here, but repitching any yeast, dry or liquid, will result in better fermentation and better beer. The 2nd and later generations become more viable.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Already stated here, but repitching any yeast, dry or liquid, will result in better fermentation and better beer. The 2nd and later generations become more viable.

I wonder what effects your massive pitches have on the question. Don't you pitch something like a kajillion cells?

 

[Immocles]

But there's no equipment needed to just pour wort onto a previous batch's yeast cake.

That is one thing that I'm going to attempt on one of my next brews. I purposely have timed it out where in two weeks, my rye IPA is going straight over the cake thats currently fermenting beer in the basement. Is it literally as easy as pouring it straight over or do you rack the yeast into a jar, re-clean/sanitize the fermenter, then pitch?

On topic:
1. Notty
2. Windsor
3. T-58
4. S189 slightly over 34/70
5. Notty. Its too versatile and I use it too much to not list it twice. Downside, its kinda boring.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I wonder what effects your massive pitches have on the question. Don't you pitch something like a kajillion cells?

Yes, we do. Over pitch. Always.

A 1 quart slurry of fresh, clean yeast per 5.5 gallons.

Diamond Lager Yeast
Safale S-04

 

[DBhomebrew]

Yes, we do. Over pitch. Always.

A 1 quart slurry of fresh, clean yeast per 5.5 gallons.

Diamond Lager Yeast
Safale S-04

And what do you pitch on 1st generation? Manufacturer's recommendation? Double, triple?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Is it literally as easy as pouring it straight over

Yes!

or do you rack the yeast into a jar, re-clean/sanitize

Also yes! So many ways to brew beer!

My understanding is that a 5g 1.045 beer on top of a cake left by 5g 1.045 would be about a 3x overpitch. It's that a problem? No idea. Clearly, one brewer here wouldn't think so.

Pitching a 5g Imperial something on that 1.045 cake would be right about perfect.

I figure all this is in the realm of nuclear weapons, horseshoes, and hand grenades.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

And what do you pitch on 1st generation? Manufacturer's recommendation? Double, triple?

I normally use the pitch rate calculator on Brewer’s Friend For 1st gen yeast.
At a minimum two packs of dry yeast per 5 gallons. And two smack packs of liquid yeast. Sometimes more, for a high OG beer.

 

[balrog]

I overbuild rather than harvest, and I know when I have gotten lax with sanitation or yeast age, because the starter will smell "off" or taste "off" in some way. But I can get 4-8 generations. In the worst ever case, I opened the old saved overbuild in preparation to build the next generation and it smelled, to put it nicely, like the underside of a road killed yak lying in the hot sun. And even though "Qiviut Quencher" might have been a great sounding beer name, I was disinclined to waste a brew session on that particular flavor profile.

 

[Miraculix]

Yes!



Also yes! So many ways to brew beer!

My understanding is that a 5g 1.045 beer on top of a cake left by 5g 1.045 would be about a 3x overpitch. It's that a problem? No idea. Clearly, one brewer here wouldn't think so.

Pitching a 5g Imperial something on that 1.045 cake would be right about perfect.

I figure all this is in the realm of nuclear weapons, horseshoes, and hand grenades.

I'm also regularly throwing the new beer on the yeastcake of the beer I just bottled and that one always turns out really nice. Do not fear the overpitch, it doesn't exist. Just like Bielefeld.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I overbuild rather than harvest, and I know when I have gotten lax with sanitation or yeast age, because the starter will smell "off" or taste "off" in some way. But I can get 4-8 generations. In the worst ever case, I opened the old saved overbuild in preparation to build the next generation and it smelled, to put it nicely, like the underside of a road killed yak lying in the hot sun. And even though "Qiviut Quencher" might have been a great sounding beer name, I was disinclined to waste a brew session on that particular flavor profile.

I agree with you. The yeast slurry must have a fresh, very “clean” fragrance. As long as it passes the sniff test, it is most likely good.

You will know when the yeast is no longer usable…your nose will tell you.

We are well past the 30th generation of Diamond. Still going strong.

 

[bwible]

Over here in the States, Belgians are often on the shelf, but rather expensive. Out of the range many are willing to pay for exploration.

American-made beers of Belgian styles are often not on par with the real deal. Under-attenuated, over-phenoled, over-spiced, Americanized hop schedule, etc, etc. Belgian beers are all about drinkability, subtlety, and balance. The US market doesn't usually prize such things. Nor is the average American pallate accustomed to drinking the riot of flavors produced by Belgian yeasts. Here, the market is swamped with Chico and Conan. Both pretty neutral.

On the other hand, breweries such as Ommegang in New York and Unibroue in Quebec have introduced many to well-executed Belgian beer. This hemisphere even had a real deal Trappist brewery for a while in Massachusetts. Sadly, they are closed or closing.

People use such appetizing words like “barnyard” or “horse blanket” when they are describing Belgian beers. Tell me who really wants to drink this? Oh yeah the same people who want beer that looks like orange juice.

 

[balrog]

Now now. To each their own. Everyone has different tastes.

Some people like Lima beans, for instance.

They, of course, are wrong.

 

[Zambezi Special]

People use such appetizing words like “barnyard” or “horse blanket” when they are describing Belgian beers. Tell me who really wants to drink this? Oh yeah the same people who want beer that looks like orange juice.

I agree, each to their own.
But.....
Have you ever had the real thing?
I've been to Belgium often. Have had easy access to blondes, tripels, doubles, strongs etc
Not someone else's interpretation of it. And as someone posted before, I think that is where the problem lies. Just try brewing some, but according to a European recipe.
No ways you find any horse blankets or barnyards...