Too much aeration when racking to secondary?

[MoonMaster]

Midway through my first batch but I am concerned I screwed my beer up when I racked to secondary. I got an auto siphon and I was transferring the beer but it was taking a really long time (later I realized I was stupid and had both containers level) and I had people waiting on me so I ended up pumping about half the batch through the auto siphon and into the carboy. I also didnt have the hose under the surface of the beer for the majority of the time. I dont feel like I made it particularly foamy or anything, but I am concerned about what this will do to my batch.

How bad is aeration during this step? Is there anything I can do to fix it?

 

[alenub]

You can't undo oxidation. That's the bad news. The good news is that you'll likely still end up with good beer. RDWHAHB, and get that primary started up with your next batch.

 

[jsweet]

My understanding is that oxidation off-flavors get worse with age, so you might want to consider drinking this batch quickly once it is fully carbed and conditioned.

As alenub said, there's no going back now, so RDWHAHB and hoping for the best is all you can do. It will probably be fine. One of the things you'll discover is that 95% of the stuff you can screw up isn't about making the difference between a drinkable and an undrinkable beer; it's about making the difference between a just-okay beer and a knock-your-socks-off beer.

 

[nefarious_1_]

I wouldn't worry too much: it's pretty hard to oxidize beer. Unless you actually pump air through the beer, I don't think it'll be a problem. A few surface ripples and a little foam has never been a problem for me.

 

[JJL]

I wouldn't worry too much: it's pretty hard to oxidize beer. Unless you actually pump air through the beer, I don't think it'll be a problem. A few surface ripples and a little foam has never been a problem for me.

+1....it really is harder than you think to actually oxidize your beer to a point where you would notice an off flavor. The first time I ever dry hopped, I was afraid I was going to siphon the hop pellet particles into my bottling bucket. So, not knowing any better I siphoned the beer through a strainer. (I don't recommend doing this.) The beer still turned out fine - no noticeable oxidation.

 

[stretchymantis]

My buddy and I just racked to secondary yesterday. It was a mess. The siphon tube was bigger than the siphon it connects to so we were sucking/blowing equal amounts air and brew....Without the end submerged in the secondary. It was like a hose on mist setting and I honestly don't think I could've aerated more if I tried. And then I had to dunk my hand into the brew to remove the trub tip filter that fell off the siphon also. Like I say, a real mess of sorts.

Potential contamination + mad crazy aeration = To be concluded... I'll post results soon after bottling and maybe a few weeks later for any off-tastes.

EDIT: Also on a side note, I was pondering the possibility of injecting CO2 into the brew. As I understand it, with CO2 being heavier, by injecting CO2 it *should* displace the oxygen, causing the oxygen to rise to the top... Has anyone heard of or have experience with this? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

________________
War does not determine who is right; War determines who is left.

 

[freisste]

EDIT: Also on a side note, I was pondering the possibility of injecting CO2 into the brew. As I understand it, with CO2 being heavier, by injecting CO2 it *should* displace the oxygen, causing the oxygen to rise to the top... Has anyone heard of or have experience with this? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

I wouldn't inject CO2 into the beer when transferring to secondary. However, I WOULD purge the secondary with CO2 because as you said the CO2 will displace the oxygen. No oxygen = no oxidation.

However, had you done this, it likely would NOT have saved you from oxidation (at least not completely) as you likely added a bit at the connection of your siphon tube and racking cane.

Also just a point of fact: CO2 is not heavier than other air in general, it is heavier in this case and fills the space because it is cooler when it leaves a tank. No gas is heavier than any other gas.

Edit: ok, some gasses are MARGINALLY heavier than others, but not in a practical sense and that is NOT why CO2 fills the space. Anyway, it doesn't really matter for this discussion.

 

[KepowOb]

I wouldn't inject CO2 into the beer when transferring to secondary. However, I WOULD purge the secondary with CO2 because as you said the CO2 will displace the oxygen. No oxygen = no oxidation.

However, had you done this, it likely would NOT have saved you from oxidation (at least not completely) as you likely added a bit at the connection of your siphon tube and racking cane.

Also just a point of fact: CO2 is not heavier than other air in general, it is heavier in this case and fills the space because it is cooler when it leaves a tank. No gas is heavier than any other gas.

Edit: ok, some gasses are MARGINALLY heavier than others, but not in a practical sense and that is NOT why CO2 fills the space. Anyway, it doesn't really matter for this discussion.

Not to start an argument or anything, but gasses can vary in weight quite a bit. CO2 is heavier than oxygen by a decent amount, though they will mix together (hence why our atmosphere has both, as well as Nitrogen, which is significantly lighter than the others).

I do agree with freisste though, I don't think injecting CO2 would purge the oxygen from the beer though... Not enough anyway.

 

[freisste]

Yeah, that's why I made the edit. And I agree, "marginally" wasn't the right word. But as you said, the gasses mix readily so my final point (that it is not the practical reason) is where we really agree - not that we really disagree anywhere.

So OP, injecting CO2 into your BREW will not keep it from oxidizing or reverse any prior oxidation. However, purging your SECONDARY FERMENTOR of oxygen by flooding with CO2 (before racking your beer in) will reduce the oxygen presence significantly, greatly reducing the effect of having headspace.

Hope this makes sense and sorry to derail the conversation with the density of gasses...

 

[unionrdr]

The real problem is that the o2 is dissolved into the beer already,not sitting at the surface waiting to be absorbed like in a body of natural water. The dammage is already done. how much remains to be seen. I've gotten lucky myself before with that darn autosiphon tubing's fit. Oxidation off flavors can also be caused by contaminants. I had my latest batch of light hybrid lager do a rather nastie example with 3-4 bottles out of the whole batch.
I was sure I got them clean rinsing & scrubbing with the bottle brush. Apparently not. So I had to go through a few hundred empty bottles & soak'em with PBW for a short while. Scrub,rinse,sanitize,& onto the bottle tree a half dozen at a time. I got rid of it,but dang,it took a while to go through all those bottles!
Not to mention the bell on my Red Baron capper had streched out a lil,not quite crimping the caps enough to seal under pressure. So some were under-carbed as well. I occasionally got a wiff of malt,& I then new the capper was a goner. Just a lil more food for thought folks...

 

[stretchymantis]

Wow, you guys are quick! And awesome! I need to change my settings so I get notified of responses. Thank you everyone for the insight! Not expecting such quick replies, I made a judgement call (and just maybe gave me the excuse to get a CO2 bottle for a kegerator ) and went for it before checking back on this forum.

I did make sure to displace the oxygen in the tube, and, this being my first batch, I incorrectly racked to the bottling bucket lol. So I used the spigot and pumped a considerable amount of CO2 to displace what I could. Having no bases for comparison and whether it actually did much (at least purged the headspace and maybe *some* oxygen), we cracked a few open today. Tastes great!!! Aside from my buddy accidentally adding the whole bottle of hazelnut flavoring (4 oz) instead of 1/8 oz.

So, thanks everyone, and especially freisste, as I will always purge the oxygen out of my secondary before racking from here on out.

Cheers!