Too early to keg ?

[selivem]

Bottles were easy, one primes, waits three weeks and drinks. Now that I've switched to kegs I'm confused. When can I keg, when should I put put the kegs in the fridge, when should I tap them.

This is what I've been doing so far:

- ferment
- rest in primary for 2 weeks - sometimes dry hop at the same time
- keg, when the fermentation is done
- staging fridge (~40F), the same day I kegged. Helps clarifying the beer.
- force carb when I have a spot in the kegerator (~40F also)
- drink

Somehow I find my beers - especially english pale ales or IPAs - are not right. They don't show fully their hop profiles and seem a bit thin.

What am I missing or doing wrong?

 

[SD-SLIM]

Bottles were easy, one primes, waits three weeks and drinks. Now that I've switched to kegs I'm confused. When can I keg, when should I put put the kegs in the fridge, when should I tap them.

This is what I've been doing so far:

- ferment
- rest in primary for 2 weeks - sometimes dry hop at the same time
- keg, when the fermentation is done
- staging fridge (~40F), the same day I kegged. Helps clarifying the beer.
- force carb when I have a spot in the kegerator (~40F also)
- drink

Somehow I find my beers - especially english pale ales or IPAs - are not right. They don't show fully their hop profiles and seem a bit thin.

What am I missing or doing wrong?

Here is what I recommend doing:
1) ferment beers for 3 weeks - 2 weeks for fermentation, I week for conditioning
2) rack to keg, set co2 to 30 psi and refrigerate for 1 hour to 24 hours at this pressure...I do this to set my rings and gaskets, the higher pressure makes it easier to see leaks.
3) purge keg and set psi to recommend serving psi based on temp and beer style (mine is 11 psi for Ales)...let this sit for a week and it's perfect beer!

 

[Chap]

This is just how I do it, not saying its right or wrong:
- primary fermenter minimum of 4 weeks, sometimes 6 (for beers less than 6%)
- rack to a keg, place it in the keezer at 41° and seal with 30 psi, venting twice
- set psi to 12 and let it carb, usually takes about a week
- check every few days after 5, drink when it's ready

So at a minimum by beer sits for 5 weeks before I drink it. The 2 weeks you are fermenting and then carbing might be a little short IMO

Good luck

 

[selivem]

So both of you, Chap and SD-Slim, you leave the beer 3 to 6 weeks so that it becomes ready. Then keg, seal and forcecarb. Once kegged the beer never leaves the fridge.

Is there a way to know when the beer is ready in these 3 to 6 weeks?

 

[chapa]

So both of you, Chap and SD-Slim, you leave the beer 3 to 6 weeks so that it becomes ready. Then keg, seal and forcecarb. Once kegged the beer never leaves the fridge.

Is there a way to know when the beer is ready in these 3 to 6 weeks?

The longer the better, you can of course check the hydrometer to make sure its done, but then you want to give it another week or more to give the yeast time to clean up and clear up. If you can wait 6, you'll probably be better off, but 3-4 should be fine.

I personally leave my keg at 25-30psi for a day or so, to get it carbed quicker, but its going to take some time to condition in the keg anyway. You can figure 2 weeks before it will be really good on tap, but that doesn't mean I don't have a few samples in the meantime

 

[selivem]

I hear conditioning depends on temperature. What temperature is your conditioning fridge, is it the same as the serving one?

Also I'm not drinking as fast as I brew. My fridges are full. Is there any harm removing the kegs from the fridge and storing them at 65F?

 

[SD-SLIM]

So both of you, Chap and SD-Slim, you leave the beer 3 to 6 weeks so that it becomes ready. Then keg, seal and forcecarb. Once kegged the beer never leaves the fridge.

Is there a way to know when the beer is ready in these 3 to 6 weeks?

Well in general Ales conduct vigorous fermentation within 2-6 days while Lagers do it from 4-10...in general primary fermentation is complete after 14 days...at the 14 day mark you should take a gravity reading, then take another one 3 days later see if there is any change...if there is not, then your beer has started to condition. Conditioning a beer varies on the type, so I would recommend reading this portion of John Palmer's How to Brew: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2-3.html
Conditioning just like recipes will become a preference of your's, however there will be science behind it as well...such as a simple Ale will condition less while a Porter will take longer.

 

[selivem]

I love John Palmer's book. It's on my night stand.

I was thinking about conditioning at cool temperature in the keg. I know it's common practice for lagers but I was wondering if the same is true for ales. Mainly because I noticed that my kegs always taste better the week before they kick.

The idea being that just like in regular lagering, tanin-protein complexes would precipitate with time. A few of my over-sparged ales seemed to improve a bit doing that.

Is there an optimal time before taping the keg or is this all in my head?

 

[SD-SLIM]

I love John Palmer's book. It's on my night stand.

I was thinking about conditioning at cool temperature in the keg. I know it's common practice for lagers but I was wondering if the same is true for ales. Mainly because I noticed that my kegs always taste better the week before they kick.

The idea being that just like in regular lagering, tanin-protein complexes would precipitate with time. A few of my over-sparged ales seemed to improve a bit doing that.

Is there an optimal time before taping the keg or is this all in my head?

So here is my problem with that...I mentioned that I leave my Ales in a pimary for 3 weeks...2 weeks for fermentation and 1 week for conditioning. The conditioning phase that I am talking about is more than just clearing up your beer...it's where the yeast finish the primary fermentation and slowly start working on maltotriose (a heavier sugar), as well as some of the byproducts created during the fermentation....if you were to chill your beer at this point, the yeast would stop working...if you were to rack this away from the yeast in to a keg, the yeast would stop working. So in summary, you are racking your beer to clear it up in color, but not to clear it up from off flavors if you go this route.

 

[Patirck]

I do one thing a little different than what is posted.

Ferment 3 - 6 weeks (or more) depending on the type of beer. Generally higher gravity stays in the fermenter longer.

Place fermenter in fridge (set to 35* if possible) for 2 - 7 days (The longer you cold crash, the clearer the beer). I left a brown ale in the primary fermenter at 35* for almost 4 weeks and it was lager like smooth and clear after kegging. Who says lagering doesn't benefit ales? This is where it really helps to have a pipeline in place so your not in a hurry.

Rack cold beer to keg and either:

Set to serving pressure and leave it for 2 weeks
Perform shock and awe insta-carb by setting pressure to 30 psi for 36 hours or so, bleeding pressure and setting to serving pressure for a day or two. This is not an exact science for me so sometimes I end up waiting a week or so after the shock and awe.
Naturally ferment by adding priming sugar/dme/honey/etc to the keg and letting it rise to room temp (at least 65*) for 2 - 3 weeks. I have only done this a few times but for more highly carbonated beers, it seems to work really well.

 

[selivem]

Of course !!! I completely overlooked that. My yeast is sleeping at the bottom of the keg and didn't have enough time to do its job.

Thanks a lot for pointing this to me.

 

[selivem]

Thanks to all of you I have a better picture of the process:

- ferment and leave at room temp 3 to 6 weeks so that the yeast can cleanup the beer.
- cold crash 1-2 days (optional)
- rack to keg, seal, purge with co2
- lager as long as needed (optional but sometimes beneficial for ales)
- force carb a week or more are required psi
- drink

Obviously I was doing things too fast, Again thanks.

 

[Yooper]

I don't know. I'm in the minority I guess, but I don't think I've ever left a beer in the fermenter more than 3 weeks, usually less.

A well made beer tastes great at 4 weeks old in my experience. I don't get the whole "wait until the beer is aged and a bit over the hill before drinking" movement.

I leave the beer in the fermenter for about 2 weeks, usually, before kegging. For a beer that is dryhopped, I usually let it ferment for about 7-10 days, add the dryhops, and keg on about day 14-17.

Sometimes a beer like a stout has some complex flavors that need some time to meld. But for the most part, even dryhopped beers are kegged and being consumed by about week 3.

 

[bob1852]

I don't know. I'm in the minority I guess, but I don't think I've ever left a beer in the fermenter more than 3 weeks, usually less.

A well made beer tastes great at 4 weeks old in my experience. I don't get the whole "wait until the beer is aged and a bit over the hill before drinking" movement.

I leave the beer in the fermenter for about 2 weeks, usually, before kegging. For a beer that is dryhopped, I usually let it ferment for about 7-10 days, add the dryhops, and keg on about day 14-17.

Sometimes a beer like a stout has some complex flavors that need some time to meld. But for the most part, even dryhopped beers are kegged and being consumed by about week 3.

Nah. I think you're still in the majority. It's just the minority has gotten more vocal!

I try to stick with a ~3 week primary for most beers, but I'm often too lazy to keg at that schedule.

 

[selivem]

I leave the beer in the fermenter for about 2 weeks, usually, before kegging. For a beer that is dryhopped, I usually let it ferment for about 7-10 days, add the dryhops, and keg on about day 14-17

I usually do too but then I can't explain this thing that happened to me and triggered this thread.

I made the beer below and kegged it three weeks after I pitched the yeast. The pints from the keg were rather bland. Then I bottled some for my friends using a home made beer gun. I left the bottles at room temp and within three weeks the result was spectacular. All the hops were there - flavor and taste. Why?...

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 21.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 41.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 90.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 88.40 %
0.30 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 3.31 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2.76 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.76 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 2.76 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [9.50 %] (60 min) Hops 35.2 IBU
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
0.50 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule
Total Grain Weight: 9.05 lb
----------------------------
Step Time Name Temp
30 min saccharification 145F
30 min saccharification 155F
10 min Mash out 168.0 F

Notes:
------
Pitch Jan 17th
Keg Feb 7th
Co2 30psi Feb 16th

 

[cyclonite]

I also go a minimum of 3 weeks in the primary (usually for wheats or other low gravity beers), and up to 6 for bigger and darker beers. I have particularly found that longer in the primary for big, dark beers is better - smooths out any harsh edges from heavily roasted malts.

I then only secondary if racking on fruit or if something really needs to age (or I'll let it age in the keg). I'll dry hop in primary or secondary - haven't tried in the keg yet.

I usually naturally carbonate in the keg with priming sugar. I'll put in the priming solution, rack on top of it, purge with CO2, and let it carbonate for 2-3 weeks at room temperature. This also has the benefit of conditioning like it does in a bottle. Then put it in the keezer and onto CO2 at serving pressure and it's ready to go in about 2 days. First pour gets the leftover yeast out.

I've found that naturally carbonating gives a better, smoother beer. However, this could just as easily be from additional aging in the keg - I am essentially doing a secondary conditioning in the keg for 2-3 weeks.

 

[HollywoodMX]

I also go a minimum of 3 weeks in the primary (usually for wheats or other low gravity beers), and up to 6 for bigger and darker beers. I have particularly found that longer in the primary for big, dark beers is better - smooths out any harsh edges from heavily roasted malts.

I then only secondary if racking on fruit or if something really needs to age (or I'll let it age in the keg). I'll dry hop in primary or secondary - haven't tried in the keg yet.

I usually naturally carbonate in the keg with priming sugar. I'll put in the priming solution, rack on top of it, purge with CO2, and let it carbonate for 2-3 weeks at room temperature. This also has the benefit of conditioning like it does in a bottle. Then put it in the keezer and onto CO2 at serving pressure and it's ready to go in about 2 days. First pour gets the leftover yeast out.

I've found that naturally carbonating gives a better, smoother beer. However, this could just as easily be from additional aging in the keg - I am essentially doing a secondary conditioning in the keg for 2-3 weeks.

In your process are you racking the yeast cake into the keg too? Or stopping right before the yeast cake?