To squeeze or not to squeeze

[Black Island Brewer]

I have found that merely letting the bag drain for 20 - 30 minutes will produce nearly the same amount as squeezing....so squeeze all you want, gravity is much easier, just let the bag drain....It does take a little patience, but squeezing only produces wort faster, not more wort.

Try just letting the bag drain while you are getting your boil going and add in the runnings to your boil. Squeezing is for those that like instant gratification, less work w gravity....same results.

+1 on this. Since following this advice, I get less particulates in the wort because I'm not squeezing the bag. I let it hang until the boil just begins, and am right at my volume.

 

[photobru]

At the last homebrew meeting someone said to try using an oven rack over the kettle, so I'm going to try that on my next brew. You could either press down on it with your kettle lid or just let it drain while bringing to a boil. I'm pretty tired of my hands getting cooked through my kitchen gloves, not to mention hot wort dripping down my arms.

 

[RM-MN]

I see the point to just letting the bag hang over the pot until it drips out but I have limited time to brew and I don't have a pot big enough to make my batch size without a sparge step. Letting the bag hang for 20 minutes to drip out, then sparging, then waiting another 20 minutes for that to drip out just won't cut it. I'll admit, I'm a squeezer, and I squeeze hard. That gets most of the wort out so when I do add sparge water it won't be adding to any wort in the bag of grains. That lets me dissolve a little more of the sugars. While I squeeze the bag the wort is heating in the pot and by the time I get the last wort squeezed out the pot is nearing the boil. By squeezing that bag so hard, the grains are dry enough that I can carry the grains out to dispose of without dripping on the floor or needing another bucket to carry them in to catch the drips.

 

[brewprint]

Before you declare logic trumps experience, keep in mind that lot's of other folks on here have done this, and they're telling you and me that that get very little to no benefit from squeezing if they let the bag drain for 20 or so minutes.

Since Santa isn't very convincing, let's use a brewing example. For years people have repeated the mantra of a minimum 60 minute mash. I followed this without question until some time last year someone on this forum suggested they got good results with a shorter 30 minute mash. Well, I tried it. And it worked. And now that's what I do as standard practice.

The world was flat at one point, and the earth was the center of the universe. That was logical. So my challenge to you would be to try it before drawing any logical conclusions.

Let's think about this for a moment.

A suspended grain or split grain shell is suspended in the bag full of water and the grain is also full of water. Gravity and the weight of other water filled grains are compressing the grain. Some water is being released from the grain and getting trapped into another and so on and so forth.

The bag drains for an hour. Then the bag gets squeezed and a bunch more water comes out.

My point here is that it would take a very long time (more than 30 minutes) for gravity to accomplish this.

I wanted to know if the OG would be the same. I found out that it would (or be very close).

Conclusion: The only reason to squeeze the bag is to make up for water lost to achieve the correct volume with the end batch.

 

[Oginme]

This is what I thought. Squeezing gives more water with the same gravity. Therefore there is no need to squeeze.

If you want to leave all the water and sugars behind, it's your choice. For me, it's a matter of about a 6% increase in extraction efficiency. I recover about 1 liter of wort by squeezing out of an average of about 14.5 liters captured all together. If I did not squeeze, I would need to add an additional liter of water and proportional amount of grains to get the save volume/gravity out.

This especially helps when doing higher gravity recipes.

 

[TexasWine]

I wanted to know if the OG would be the same. I found out that it would (or be very close).

Conclusion: The only reason to squeeze the bag is to make up for water lost to achieve the correct volume with the end batch.

Sounds like we've had some miscommunication. When you said this....

Is it necessary too squeeze the bag? It's hot and really a PITA IMO.

I thought you were asking if it was necessary to squeeze the bag. Did I misread something?

I myself am a bag squeezer because, like RM-MN, I'm limited by my equipment so I do a sparge. Though I suppose it is feasible to do a gravity drain even with a sparge step, but that's another topic.

The bag drains for an hour. Then the bag gets squeezed and a bunch more water comes out.

My point here is that it would take a very long time (more than 30 minutes) for gravity to accomplish this.

Sorry, but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this. From what I can tell you have never tested this for yourself and the claim that "a bunch more water comes out" is simply conjecture. If you read through this thread you'll see several people claiming the opposite. I'm not saying you'll get nothing, but from the experience of others it sounds like it would be very, very little, maybe a few ounces.

Do what works for you and have fun. Like I said, I'm not anti-squeezing. Just trying to answer the question that was asked originally. And if you end up building a nifty bag press, share the pictures!

 

[ArcLight]

>>Is it necessary too squeeze the bag? It's hot and really a PITA IMO.

1 - Don't be a hero, buy a pair of heat resistant synthetic gloves from Home Depot/Lowes for around $15. You can squeeze long and hard with them.

2 - Its the MANLY thing to do. Don't be a SISSY BIABer, be a MANLY BIABER.

Actually - what I do is squeeze, and use an oven grate on to of my pot and press down on the bag. Then place the bag in a second pot of warm water, stir it up, squeeze (MANLY he man style) again, then pour into the main pot.

This gives me an additional 10% extraction. I think without any squeezing or dunk sparging I'd get 15% less extraction.
And I'd lose (MANLY) bragging rights.

(many BIABers don't dunk sparge, they use the gravity method. When I suggested squeezing the Australians told me to not worry about it - use an extra pound of grain if I was that concerned - make your brew day easy - and drink a beer instead)

 

[Psylocide]

Biggest reason I do it is to get on with the brew day... I don't have a pulley rigged up (yet) to raise it and let it drip and I like to clean all my pre-boil stuff while I'm heating to boil. My wife is much happier when everything from the mashing process is put away before the boil starts.

That's really what is important here.

 

[ArcLight]

1. The extra liquid from squeezing has a higher gravity that what is left in the pot when you pull the bag.

2. I've not used the gravity method and if it works well, then it should be considered because its easy and takes no time. (but it's not MANLY which is the real purpose of brewing )

3. If you use the gravity method, then you are leaving some excess sugars behind. What you might want to do is give the bag several minutes to drain, then release the tension and pour in a liter or water - to replace the liquid that ran off - to extract some more sugar. Let it drain some more - you can pour the runnings into the boil later on.

 

[wobdee]

I've tried both and when I just let gravity do its thing for 30-45 min I find I can still squeeze about 8-10 ounces of wort out of a 6 lb grain bill for a 2.5-3 gal batch. I'll stick with squeezing for time savings and the little extra wort but I don't squeeze the piss out of it either.

 

[blackhammer]

I have found that merely letting the bag drain for 20 - 30 minutes will produce nearly the same amount as squeezing....so squeeze all you want, gravity is much easier, just let the bag drain....It does take a little patience, but squeezing only produces wort faster, not more wort.

Try just letting the bag drain while you are getting your boil going and add in the runnings to your boil. Squeezing is for those that like instant gratification, less work w gravity....same results.

I have NEVER squeezed my bag, but always let the bag drain through a WAl-Mart collander into the keggle for thirty minutes and have no problem hitting my numbers. +1 to Wilserbrewers idea :fro:

 

[browder]

Been three years since I squeezed a bag that's such a pain--I like to hang it and start my boil and just before it starts to roll I'll take it down and hang it off my brew stand so it can drip in a bucket--if I can't hang it I just sit the bag on a cookie rack and let it drip in the kettle----

 

[Gavin C]

I believe the weight of anectodatal evidence in this and many threads that have preceeded it on the forum would support the null hypothesis regarding squeeze -v- no squeeze and drain.

I squeeze as I do not have the facility to hoist and drain over my stove nor do I want to incorporate an extra vessel for a batch sparge. For me the latter is a case of avoiding extra potential for mess although I'm sure folks can do it with little or no mess.

Draining bag

I pull the bag and allow wort to drain prior to placing it on a large collander over the boil kettle. Repeated small lifts of the bag gets the vast majority of the hot sweet wort to drain. The bag is gradually twisted and squeezed till preboil volume is reached. Bag and grains are put to one side for disposal.

Draining equipment

I like this method as it is

• Repeatable and consistent for me
• Not messy (surgical gloves used during the handling of the bag/grains)
• Comparable to a gravity drain alone
• The now not soaking grain bag can be readily cooled and disposed of (flower beds)

If I am leaving sweet wort in the bag by not utulizing a squeeze or a longer drain I need to account for the lost efficiency with more grain and water in my recipe formulations. Not a big deal. Consistent results is the key for me however, not the efficiency number. This is obtainable with my system as outlined.

 

[wilserbrewer]

OK, I'll admit I squeezed the grain bag my first few attempts at BIAB. I was so elated when a shiny quarter quickly fell out of the bag, I thought it was so productive, I was happy.

I have since realized that just letting the bag hang and drain that 25 - 30 pennies slowly drop out of the bag over the 20 - 30 minutes while I'm coming to boil...

If you love squeezing the bag, or if it fits your set up, or batch size, well then don your silicone gloves and squeeze til your hearts content. I'll choose to RDWHAHB

 

[ArcLight]

If you love squeezing the bag, or if it fits your set up, or batch size, well then don your silicone gloves and squeeze til your hearts content.

Now you've got it! Nothing better than Squeezing the the bag, makes you feel like a man!

I'd gladly try the gravity method, except I don't have a pulley or anything tall nearby. Maybe I could hang the bag from the fence?

Next time I do a 10 gallon BIAB, I will use a pulley and will try the girlie man approach of using gravity. I don't need a pulley for 25 pounds of wet grain, because I'm a MANLY BIABer after all, but the bag is kind of heavy and unwieldy.

(PS Not squeezing would save me so,me time, though I'd still do a dunk sparge)

 

[Gavin C]

If I had the facility to hoist and drain I would absolutely not bother squeezing.

Getting the wort out of the bag with whatever method has its merits in terms of efficiency for sure; albeit very small.

The practicalities of removing and disposing an undrained/unsqueezed sticky bag of grains accross my kitchen to the back door are however, in my view prohibitive. So if only for cleanliness and for no brewing merits, squeezing/draining helps keep one's brew area clean and has its place.

Wilser, I can assure you, I am very relaxed throughout my brewday. It is truly enjoyable and time I look forward to all week. The squeeze of the bag does not squeeze my adrenals.

 

[wilserbrewer]

(PS Not squeezing would save me some time, though I'd still do a dunk sparge)

FWIW, my BIAB dunk sparge days are also over, way too much gymnastics moving the bag around. I have found a slow trickle pour over / through the bag sparge while the bag hangs over the kettle much easier...did I mention I like easy

I choose to dough in with approx batch size volume, then pour over sparge to reach pre - boil volume...no tedious guesswork water volume calculations, just measure what you have in the kettle and sparge to a goal...easy

Even a cold sparge works....so easy

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Now you've got it! Nothing better than Squeezing the the bag, makes you feel like a man!

LAst brew day, I pulled my BIAB grain out of the dunk sparge and began squeezing. Got Wort all over my pants. Continued brewing with worty pants like a MAN

 

[jtratcliff]

I beleived in Santa Claus for a long time. I got wind he might not be real, so I tested it out myself. I pretended like I was asleep on Christmas Eve and heard my parents get up from their bed and put presents out. My own experience confirmed what others had told me.

Geez, thanks for ruining Christmas for the rest of us you bastard!

 

[Chris_Primavera]

Due to volume constraints with my kettle, I will be mashing one gallon low to avoid spills and adding it after pulling the bag. I was thinking of heating it to mashout temperature and doing a quick rinse of the grains - letting them drip while the rest of the batch gets to boil.

Can't hurt.

 

[wilserbrewer]

LAst brew day, I pulled my BIAB grain out of the dunk sparge and began squeezing. Got Wort all over my pants. Continued brewing with worty pants like a MAN

LOL LOL This is exactly why I don't dunk sparge or squeeze.....funny man!

If I had the facility to hoist and drain I would absolutely not bother squeezing.

Gavin, I mentioned and realize some of you bag squeezers are obligated based on your brewery set up and location ....it's OK really

 

[wilserbrewer]

Due to volume constraints with my kettle, I will be mashing one gallon low to avoid spills and adding it after pulling the bag. I was thinking of heating it to mashout temperature and doing a quick rinse of the grains - letting them drip while the rest of the batch gets to boil.

Can't hurt.

You can heat the sparge water if you like, it won't make much if any difference over using cold water IMO...

 

[brewprint]

Thanks for all of this info gents. I've now come to another conclusion that I don't know what to do. So many different views. I just say RDWAHAHB

 

[DurtyChemist]

This argument seems to be the equivalent of either all grain v extract or Three vessels v BIAB in the BUAB world. I've done both and I don't think it matters if you squeeze or gravity extract the wort. I don't personally think it will change my brew from a 1.060 to a 1.068 and even with thick chemical gloves the wort is hot and sticky and messy. I have squeezed previously to speed up gravity and to prevent that trail of wort to the trashcan.

 

[Todd820]

Echo many other on this one, squeeze or don't squeeze, but by all means do it the same each batch. Get your efficiency in for the process you use and adjust your recipe accordingly. Personally, I use and old microwave grate to set my bag on after hoisting, push on it a little with the lid of my BK to avoid burning my delicate digits, then hang it over the BK from a pulley for a few more minutes until my boil gets going. I hit 70% and am happy with that. Spend a little more on grain and don't worry about getting extra points.

 

[ArcLight]

LAst brew day, I pulled my BIAB grain out of the dunk sparge and began squeezing. Got Wort all over my pants. Continued brewing with worty pants like a MAN

NOW YOUVE GOT IT! :fro:

When I did a 10 gallon BIB batch WITHOUT a pulley (the MANLY way) I got hot wort all over me. I smelled and felt like a man.

Next time I brew I'll try the "pour" method, and see what the gravity is.
:rockin:

 

[firerat]

Are you guys squeezing the right bag?

Don't squeeze too hard, you can hurt yourselves.