To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In

[justinwillsie]

if you decide too leave it in the primary for a month or whatever time period you wish instead of bringing it over too a secondary, letting it sit for weeks, and then bottling, do you rack over too a secondary just before you bottle or do you bottle straight from the primary?

 

[lowtones84]

Some people manage to bottle straight from primary, but standard practice is to boil priming sugar for a bit, put it in the bottom of a bottling bucket and then siphon from your primary on top of the priming sugar into the bottling bucket. Most folks use a bottling bucket with a spigot if they bottle, which is pretty handy.

 

[piteko]

Some people manage to bottle straight from primary, but standard practice is to boil priming sugar for a bit, put it in the bottom of a bottling bucket and then siphon from your primary on top of the priming sugar into the bottling bucket. Most folks use a bottling bucket with a spigot if they bottle, which is pretty handy.

I tried both for some time. I started using a bottling bucket as you describe.

Then, to avoid extra oxidation and to save some time, I tried to bottle directly from the primary, pouring the boiled mix of water and sugar (or DME or original worth) into the primary and then into the bottle. The clarity was nice at the start and then (depending from the yeast flocculation) exceptional after some months (from 2 to 6). Here is the con: I opened some beers that are more carbonated than others. Even if I poured the mix at the start of the bottling process, to let it mix with the beer without agitating, I think that I had more sugar in some bottles than in others. It's difficult to say for sure, but I still have this feeling...

I think I will go back to the bottling bucket again and make some more tests...
Cheers!
Piteko

 

[BrewKnurd]

I tried both for some time. I started using a bottling bucket as you describe.

Then, to avoid extra oxidation and to save some time, I tried to bottle directly from the primary, pouring the boiled mix of water and sugar (or DME or original worth) into the primary and then into the bottle. The clarity was nice at the start and then (depending from the yeast flocculation) exceptional after some months (from 2 to 6). Here is the con: I opened some beers that are more carbonated than others. Even if I poured the mix at the start of the bottling process, to let it mix with the beer without agitating, I think that I had more sugar in some bottles than in others. It's difficult to say for sure, but I still have this feeling...

I think I will go back to the bottling bucket again and make some more tests...
Cheers!
Piteko

I've never tried bottling from primary, but yeah, this would be a problem. You're never going to get that sugar to mix well without 1) stirring it in some say, thereby stirring up trub, or 2) letting it sit for a while, in which case the yeast will just eat the sugar while you're waiting.

If you want to bottle from primary and want consistent carbonation, I think you're going to need to use carb tabs or individually measure out sugar into each bottle. Personally, I'ma stick to my bottling bucket.

 

[piteko]

I've never tried bottling from primary, but yeah, this would be a problem. You're never going to get that sugar to mix well without 1) stirring it in some say, thereby stirring up trub, or 2) letting it sit for a while, in which case the yeast will just eat the sugar while you're waiting.

If you want to bottle from primary and want consistent carbonation, I think you're going to need to use carb tabs or individually measure out sugar into each bottle. Personally, I'ma stick to my bottling bucket.

I think there is a third way, which I'm not in it for the moment: you can mix the boiled sugar and water and make a cold crash at the same time. The sugar should have enough time (1-2 days) to mix all the way and the yeast should be inactive because of the temperature.

Cheers from Italy!
Piteko

 

[BrewKnurd]

I think there is a third way, which I'm not in it for the moment: you can mix the boiled sugar and water and make a cold crash at the same time. The sugar should have enough time (1-2 days) to mix all the way and the yeast should be inactive because of the temperature.

Cheers from Italy!
Piteko

Maybe... But you might crash out too much yeast to effectively bottle carb. I dunno. sticking with the bucket.

 

[piteko]

Maybe... But you might crash out too much yeast to effectively bottle carb. I dunno. sticking with the bucket.

I already tried cold crash before bottling, with nice clarity obtained and good carbonation. Never done the experiment described above. Maybe in the future, who knows... By now I will stick again with primary-only and the bottling bucket as you

Personally, regarding to the topic, I obtained a better clarity skipping the secondary and making a long primary. But the real jump with clarity was doing primary-only with a very flocculant yeast (like Wyeast Scottish Ale 1728). That was on the bottom of my bottles solid as a rock.

 

[Denny]

QUESTION!

I like this and it should save me alot of time and effort. However, when using a secondary for my wheat that i want to add oranges to, do I use whole or half oranges, or jest the peels?

Any recomendations?

Your situation is one of the few where a secondary could be recommended. That said....oranges???????

 

[mikeysab]

Yeah, aren't the oranges supposed to be sliced and clipped to the edge of your glass when drinking? Seriously, peel them, chop em up a bit to expose the inside and throw em in. Or you could use just the peels, but try to get just the orange part and not the white part of the peel.

 

[GuldTuborg]

I agree that the pith is worth avoiding, but oranges aren't so strange. I have a local brewery that makes a blood orange witbier that's really quite good. I think the recipe uses juice and zest. Which raises another question - why not just go the juice & zest route, and skip adding whole fruits altogether?

 

[rodisian]

I'd say go with just the peels -- zest the orange (or use a veggie peeler to zest thin strips).. zesting will increase he surface area and release the oils from the skin, which should provide a bit more flavor than just throwing the whole orange in. then peel and eat said orange. win-win.

Alternatively, for the Blood orange Hefe from Sam Calagione (Extreme Brewing) he does recommend throwing both the peel and orange sections in the wort (after steeping the fruit in 160deg water). he suggests peeling & cutting up the fruit into the steeping water, being sure to avoid getting any pith (white rind) into the wort.

So moral of the story.. don't add any pith!

 

[lud]

How did this post get off topic?

 

[TAK]

Is there any concern about a long primary in a plastic bucket? as opposed to in a glass carboy?

 

[Revvy]

Is there any concern about a long primary in a plastic bucket? as opposed to in a glass carboy?

As been covered in this thread repeatedly, NO......I've done six months in buckets with no issues. The beers were great.

 

[mikeysab]

Is there any concern about a long primary in a plastic bucket? as opposed to in a glass carboy?

Very interesting topc. Lets discuss it.

 

[TAK]

As been covered in this thread repeatedly, NO......I've done six months in buckets with no issues. The beers were great.

I read this thread a while back but couldn't remember if this was covered or not. I was reading a bit of the Home Brewer's Companion and CP mentioned something about not keeping it in plastic for more than a few days after visible fermentation has stopped due to the risk of oxidation.

Since bigger beers can handle a bit of oxidization better as it aids in the aging process, is there any reason to be concerned about smaller beers sitting in a permeable primary for a month or more? My guess is the answer will be no, but I’m throwing it out there anyway.

 

[mikeysab]

The Brewers Companion was released nine years ago. A lot has changed since then. Read through this whole thread, since you like reading. Extended primaries in plastic buckets pose no threats to your beer, as long as you sanitize properly

 

[TW1Kell]

LOLZ.....

Dammit we've gone legit. Guess that means I have to get that "No F**king Secondaries" tat lasered off my back now.

HAHA! Swing by the house and I'll unlimber my old "shop" and cover it up fer ya...Bring beer! hehehe

What to cover it with...hmmm....

"NO F**king Dromedaries!"? Might work, depends on how much beer ya bring along...

 

[komomos]

I've read a lot of bullsheat!
Secondary fermentation rulazzz!

Oh I have an own principle of brewing. No primary fermantation!11!!!1 Directly transition to secondary with no primary.

 

[FireRescueFL]

Haha! Nice. I needed that chuckle this morning!

---Chris

 

[buzzbean]

Thanks for the comments Revvy I learn from nearly every post you throw up. I do a 2ndary to keep the yeast out of the bottle, (dont like drinking yeast paste). But for my next batch I will let it sit in the primary to really compact. One question, I do 3 gal batches do you think that will provide sufficient pressure to really compact the yeast?

 

[BareKnuckleBrew]

If I was the college type I would say this thread made me ready for a thesis paper on the pros and cons of the secondary! Thanks everyone for the input; I'm a new brewer and this thread was very helpful.

I noticed there are a handful of biker/brewers... I re-furbished a wicked 68' ironhead. Beers and Bikes- both are better if you build them yourself!!

 

[BillyBroas]

If I was the college type I would say this thread made me ready for a thesis paper on the pros and cons of the secondary! Thanks everyone for the input; I'm a new brewer and this thread was very helpful.

lol It should be required reading on the homebrewing syllabus. Glad you found it helpful

 

[Griff777]

I've adopted this method(primary only for five weeks on ales) and rack to keg directly. Glad to say it has produced my clearest ales to date. I used to brew in early ninety's and would rack to secondary after a week in primary. All the beers have tasted great but clarity was my goal. I just leave in pail, don't peek until five weeks is up, and rack. So much easier and great results. The knowledge here is invaluable. Also, formerly a carboy only fermenter and secondary, the pails give you plenty of headroom and haven't lost volume due to lack of need for blowoff tubes and that mess.

 

[TW1Kell]

If I was the college type I would say this thread made me ready for a thesis paper on the pros and cons of the secondary! Thanks everyone for the input; I'm a new brewer and this thread was very helpful.

I noticed there are a handful of biker/brewers... I re-furbished a wicked 68' ironhead. Beers and Bikes- both are better if you build them yourself!!

Dude, I agree about the bikes and beer. I brew, and I own a '36 Flathead and a '78 Shovelhead Electra-Glide. both restored by me. Everything's better when ya do it yourself.

I haven't secondaried a beer, yet. I just follow the Cooper's instructions and have since decided to not deviate from that. My last 2 brews went totally south with infections...I deviated from Cooper's instructions. Not going that route, anymore. Later...

 

[BareKnuckleBrew]

:rockin: Sometimes I brew... sometimes I bike! But what I don't do anymore is rack to a secondary!

 

[paleale]

i say each to thier own. i have let it set before for as much as 2 monthes on the yeast cake and it was fine. i have secondaried many times and it was still great. sometimes i still secondary sometimes not. i have never had either way turn out bad.

 

[joety]

Dude, I agree about the bikes and beer. I brew, and I own a '36 Flathead and a '78 Shovelhead Electra-Glide. both restored by me. Everything's better when ya do it yourself.

I have a 1931 Solo D that my grandfather bought new that needs a restore. Did you learn how to do it on your own or are you a trained mechanic?

 

[Dawnhulio]

i say each to thier own. i have let it set before for as much as 2 monthes on the yeast cake and it was fine. i have secondaried many times and it was still great. sometimes i still secondary sometimes not. i have never had either way turn out bad.

Just bottled my first batch off of a primary-only ferment...sat for five weeks. Always do a taste test straight from the fermenter and this tasted just as good as anything I've pulled from a secondary fermenter. No immediate off-tastes or flavors. Put the primary up on blocks last night to get the yeast cake settled so that whatever I siphoned off wasn't yeasty...seemed to work well. Looking forward to the end results (after conditioning) to see how successful I was in leaving the cake behind...

 

[Beernewb]

I rarely secondary, but i will add that there is one yeast (by experience) that seems to give me the same off flavor if it sits on the cake too long (4-6 weeks) versus transfer to a secondary..then bulk aging....maybe it's the gravity..i use this yeast on high gravity beers, maybe it's something else, but i can say that it's the same exact off flavor from beer to beer, and only with this yeast...i also tasted this EXACT off flavor in a bottle of widmer dark saison i had a few weeks ago...not sure what yeast they used, but mine was always with wyeast #1762....it's generally the only yeast i secondary now.