To Clone or not to Clone

[hammer one]

I see a lot of threads around about people who want to clone a beer and it got me thinking why you would want to clone beer. If you take account of the cost of equipment, ingredient and your time it is more expensive to brew your own. The only real reason that I can come up with for cloning is that the beer you want just is not around for you to pick up at a store. For me I like to brew a beer that I can share with friends and be able to say, "try this thats something that you wont find in a store" Any thoughts?

 

[HorribleCatfish]

I see a lot of threads around about people who want to clone a beer and it got me thinking why you would want to clone beer. If you take account of the cost of equipment, ingredient and your time it is more expensive to brew your own. The only real reason that I can come up with for cloning is that the beer you want just is not around for you to pick up at a store. For me I like to brew a beer that I can share with friends and be able to say, "try this thats something that you wont find in a store" Any thoughts?

Well, brewing is just plain fun, regardless of the recipe...and I suppose by comparing your brew with its inspiration, you could get a good gauge of your brewing skills.

 

[JesseRC]

I like to clone, not for getting an exact duplicate of the original, but because in gets me in the general area of where I want to be. So for me , I know I'm not getting a true clone, but I am getting a beer that is in the style that I prefer. Since I fairly new, it gives me a good place to start experimenting.

 

[chefmike]

I guess you could say the same thing about food: why would you cook anything when you can go buy it?

Several things come to mind: learning the skills it takes to master a recipe, the challenge of not having exact notes from a brew and recreating it based on taste, lack of availability (that you mentioned), cost (a sixer of something good costs $8 to $9 here, right? I spend about $20 a batch, so lets double that and say $40, still cheaper).

And pride... brew a clone of something that is on the money, serve it to your friends and tell them you brewed. They will be impressed.

I like the bonus of being able to put your clone side by side with the commercial version as well... instant comparison. You can learn a lot!

 

[Weezknight]

I see a lot of threads around about people who want to clone a beer and it got me thinking why you would want to clone beer. If you take account of the cost of equipment, ingredient and your time it is more expensive to brew your own. The only real reason that I can come up with for cloning is that the beer you want just is not around for you to pick up at a store. For me I like to brew a beer that I can share with friends and be able to say, "try this thats something that you wont find in a store" Any thoughts?

I think cloning a beer is a big money saver. The cost of the equipment becomes minimal after spread out through so many batches. For me, it is much more cost effective to clone 2+ cases for $50, when it would cost me around $50 for just 1 case of the beer that I like.

It all depends on how good of a "pipeline" you've got going. If you get a really good clone with a good, consistent, schedule of fermentation to bottling/kegging, then you will be well ahead of the game, money-wise, in no time at all.

 

[rsmith179]

I tend to agree with Jesse. I like making "clone brews" based on commercial examples that have proven their worth to me. For example, I love really hoppy IPAs. Where would someone begin? I begin by looking at commercial examples, find the ones I like the best, and try to capture those qualities in my own beers. Although they aren't "exactly" like the commercial examples, I like it that way. I'm able to put my own tastes and preferences into my beer.

Cloning basically gives you a starting point. Something that you can then build off of. Oh yeah, and it is really cool to try and get information from the brewers themselves. A simple email to the company that brews your favorite beer may be enough to get you on the right track.

Just did the Green Flash IPA clone from Jamil's show. Haven't tasted it yet, except for coming out of the primary. Can't wait to give it a try, make some changes, and brew it again.

 

[IrregularPulse]

You can't really figure the cost of equipment because you'd have that same cost no matter what you're brewing. And if I can brew the same thing for $0.50 a pint vs 9 for a 6 pack.
The only clone I've made though is Fat Tire and I can't get that here.

 

[COLObrewer]

You find a "commercial" beer you like and you want to make one similar. It's fun to try and figure out the various malts/hops/ingredients that make the various flavors/aromas/textures, that is a powerfull learning process. I've only been thinking of cloning one brew because I happen to almost love it, alas, it's been cloned many times, but not by me. Also since I malt/roast my own, it allows me to test my home malts with commercial malts.

 

[ajwillys]

Alot of the beers I make are slight takeoff's of a clone. The reason is because if I find a clone recipe on the internet, I know what that recipe will taste like before I brew it. I can then tweak the recipe before I've even tasted it, which is fun for me. If you just find a recipe on the internet, its not easy to tweak it because you don't know what the original tastes like yet.

 

[Arkador]

Cloning humans is still Illegal, but by golly, we can clone Sheep and Beers!

Over time, homebrewed cloned are cheaper. I find that a beer i brewed tastes better, because it has that "I Made It!"

I can then tweak the recipe before I've even tasted it, which is fun for me. If you just find a recipe on the internet, its not easy to tweak it because you don't know what the original tastes like yet.

Good point.... ever thought "How would X beer taste if they changed Y variable?

 

[Revvy]

It's challenging to try to figure out a recipe (I found the intro article in BYO's 150 clone beers immensely helpful in attempt to deconstructing a recipe from only a few clues...then imputing the info into software and making the numbers work for you.)

It's a great way to get to know how ingredients play with other ingredients to achieve certain tastes. When trying to brew a clone, you learn a heck of a lot in terms of your own recipe creation.

And you end up with at least 2 case of one of your favorite beers for the cost of around one six pack of it.....Most of the beers that I really like and would consider cloning run anywhere from 10-20 bucks a sixer.....If I brew a clone (from a book, OR from my own experimentation) I can brew 50 bottles of it for about 20 bucks, as opposed to 80-160 bucks...PLUS I get the enjoyment of brewing at the same time...

 

[Rick500]

I just enjoy the whole process.

And I know which commercial beers I really like, so what better place to start a new recipe than with something close to one of those.

 

[flylock_jac]

As many have said ,you can clone for at least 1/2 the price if not less.
Also lots of craft brews are limited runs or only available seasonally . This way you can enjoy them year round.

 

[brian_g]

I think the problem is that when people talk about cloning a beer, people think it's just about copying, no different from bootlegging software or music. For me it's not about just having a copy of someone else's brew. It's about the learning experience.

Let me give one specific example of this learning experience. My wife and I have been trying some beers lately and looking up the recipes in Clone Brews. We found that a lot of the beers my wife likes have Hallertau hops. These are beers of very different styles Pilsner, Wheat, Bock. We both learned to recognize the distinctive flavor added by the Hallertau hops. It's hard not to recognize a distinctive flavor when everything else about the beer is different.

I don't know if I get around to cloning these beers, but the fact that they have been cloned, helped us to learn. Learning how to copy a recipe helps one learn about how the different flavors interact with each other. This is the knowledge I want to use to create my own recipes.

 

[carl spakler]

I see a lot of threads around about people who want to clone a beer and it got me thinking why you would want to clone beer. If you take account of the cost of equipment, ingredient and your time it is more expensive to brew your own. The only real reason that I can come up with for cloning is that the beer you want just is not around for you to pick up at a store. For me I like to brew a beer that I can share with friends and be able to say, "try this thats something that you wont find in a store" Any thoughts?

As has been said, you better not cook any food in your house that can be purchased at a restaurant or you are guilty of the same thing.

Brewing is a hobby, sometimes the process is the fun part. The fact that you get a few cases of beer out of it is just gravy.

 

[Homercidal]

Yep, it CAN be cheaper, but it really depends on how much $$ you like to throw at this hobby. I know a few peoples on here who would have to live to be 150 to come out even!

I've gone AG and Bulk buy grain and hops if I can and estimate that I'm well below 1/2 price for the beers that I've made since then (And since I built my own crusher, I don't have to add that into the initial cost!)

But I clone beers because it's a challenge and I'll like the beer that I make when I'm done. Odds are that I'll never really hit the taste exactly, but I learn to comprehend the process that makes that commercial version what it is. And I find out what it is about my water, process, etc. that makes my beer what it is (for good or for bad).

 

[mklawz]

I just enjoy the whole process.

And I know which commercial beers I really like, so what better place to start a new recipe than with something close to one of those.

+1. I have a couple brew-buddies who moreless roll their eyes when I mention a clone recipe. Screw em. There is nothing wrong with it. Its brewing any way you slice it.

 

[JesseRC]

It's a freakin recipe for God's sake. It's not like you're buying it already made. For noobs how else you gonna learn what tastes are expected.

 

[Brett3rThanU]

Sometimes it's fun to see how close I can come to the commercial version, other times because it costs half as much to brew the beer than to buy it in the store. Plus there's the bonus of saying "I made this". That given, most of the recipes I do are variants of clones, tweaked to my liking, or I'll read the description of a commercial beer and come up with my own recipe that I think will taste similar.

I don't see what the big deal about doing a clone is, regardless it's not going to be exactly the same because we don't have the same brewing conditions as commercial breweries.

 

[sully]

the first sip of rogue's shakespere stout made me want to brew that beer over and over again, and then again. clones are awesome recipes and when you get strung out on some of your own creations clones are great to switch it up.

 

[WorryWort]

One - you can't find that particular beer easily. I can't get decent Czech Pilsners in Vancouver, and I can't buy really good German lagers cheaply either. So I try to make them as best I can.

Two - If you got the recipe of a commercial beer from a brewer, and you can succeed at the challenge of making something very very close to the commercial example then you know you are a good brewer.

Three - It simply gives you the ability to brew different things and learn from the experience.

 

[bdnoona]

Cloning helps me learn what it is that I really like about beers that I enjoy. Without cloning it would've taken me much longer to realize how awesome Chinook is!

 

[Sigafoos]

This has been discussed a lot, but it's for some people and not for others. I'd prefer to brew something that doesn't try to be any existing beer, but maybe it will come close. Honestly I don't drink enough of the same beers to be able to say 'I'd like a SNPA but a little more toasted flavor and a touch more resiny hop flavor' or something, but if I did use a commercial beer as my base that's how I'd do it. But that's because I brew to experiment and try my own version of things. Some people brew to get beer cheaper, and it seems like cloning would be a good way to do that. Some people like the challenge of trying to hit a beer exactly, and so cloning works for that.

But be careful about saying 'I do it to get stuff you can't find in the store...' you sound like the old guy who comes to tastings and handed me a rhubarb beer that was pink with chunks of rhubarb in it. I've learned to have a full glass when he comes by.

 

[IanP]

I think using a clone recipe is just part of the learning process in the same way a beginner cook uses a recipe book - the result is likely to be better than making it up on their own, and they learn the process/ingredients etc. Once they get some experience they begin making their own recipes while probably still making some favorites from the books.

Beer is a bit different to food because all the beer we buy is commercial bulk products whose producers have to protect their recipes, in the same way the Colonel or Coke closely guard their secret recipes. There's no made-to-order beer equivalent of restaurants, or of celebrity chefs on tv, both of whom are happy to sell recipe books for people to use at home, safe in the knowledge that they aren't losing business by giving the recipes away. The absence of beer recipe books written by beer producers gives clone recipes a stigma, implying there's something wrong or illicit about them, but there isn't - it's just the nature of the product.

 

[flylock_jac]

Well if mom or grandma pass down a recipe it's an heirloom . chances are your version isn't going to taste exactly the same. Not really any different with cloning a beer recipe.

 

[bob1852]

here's a good reason to clone - you might actually like the clone better than the original. I made a Moose Drool clone and found that I like mine better than Moose Drool. It's a tad bit sweeter and less smokey than the original. Oh, and it scored a 39 at the SW AHA HBC

 

[hammer one]

I would like to congratulate all of you! I do agree that cloning is a good way to judge the Quality of your beer. For myself, I guess I'm just partial to my brew. But I all ways like it better than the commercial version. It seems to me that commercial brewers tend to skimp when it comes to ingredient where as home brewers tend to go in the other direction.
On a side note. It's nice to have a discussion about something other than asking and answering the same old questions over and over again.

 

[Yooper]

I would like to congratulate all of you! I do agree that cloning is a good way to judge the Quality of your beer. For myself, I guess I'm just partial to my brew. But I all ways like it better than the commercial version. It seems to me that commercial brewers tend to skimp when it comes to ingredient where as home brewers tend to go in the other direction.
On a side note. It's nice to have a discussion about something other than asking and answering the same old questions over and over again.

Nah, this question has been asked over and over, too!

I guess I'd have to define my version of "cloning". I think my Dead Guy ale clone is pretty close. But I took portions of different recipes, so I didn't just start with a totally blank slate.

In the case of my most recent "clone", it really wasn't an attempt at an exact clone. The beer is Lakefront Brewery Cream City Pale Ale. Now, I tasted it and decided what it was that I tasted that I loved. Definitely cascade hops. A definite malt/hops balance, but with more bitterness than expected and some depth to the malt. So, I put together my "Yooper House Ale" recipe. It's outstanding! Did I clone the Cream City? Nah, it's not that close. But, it's my all-time favorite beer.

So, I think that it's not always about an exact copy of the original (which is impossible anyway). It's about taking those things that make that beer great and translating it into your own beer.

 

[FxdGrMind]

Being relatively a Newbie to the brewing of beer, and that I must say I really detest the commercial breweries out there. Their beer is watery, tasteless and in my opinion not worth the money.
I've hence not had beer at the house for decades, heck the only beer in the house was typically something my parents bought during their last visit... can you say 12+ months old.
I love the small craft beers that are around the PNW as it's all on tap, local and has a vibrant and passionate flavor profile. I liked that and they grew on me, but I never went out to the bars or pubs much to enjoy.
So brewing was my out, my way to have the beer I desire to drink, on tap and at my house so I didn't have to think about DUI's.
Not knowing how to brew at first, I took the plunge with a clone beer from my LHBS. It was what hooked me! Ok it wasn't an exact "Clone" but it was similar in style as to what I was expecting and to be honest far better than I had ever imagined!
Since then I've taken clone's off the web and tried to create the same in my brewery, ok they aren't close and that just tells me that I have much more to learn and explore making this hobby something that will grow with me for a long long time.
My latest batch is an alteration and from what I have smelled from the primary, tasted after racking to 2ndary and now I'm about ready to keg. I'm as happy as a school boy seeing my first set of... um um's
This hobby is pure addiction and it's all the fault of that first "Clone" kit.

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

You can always do what I do and make up a recipe then find it in clone or kit form.

I was thinking "what if I added 4 oz chocolate malt and 1 oz toasted barley to my brown ale, that would be good" then I looked on the net, sure enough, brewers best had the exact recipe I wanted to try in kit form, down to the williamette hops and all.