To Aliexpress or not to Aliexpress

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R.G.

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Hi All
I was wondering, do you think it is safe to buy from Aliexpress? not from the point that will the product arrive or not more from health and safety POV.
Is the stainless steel really stainless steel? is the silicon really food grade? will the pressure valves will fail? Corni kegs really can handle the pressure and the PRV will work when needed?
Well you got the point :D I like to hear your opinions.
Thanks
 
99% of the stuff you buy locally comes from the same Chinese factories so if it weren't safe we'd be in trouble anyway. I'm not kidding, some Chinese sellers even have the same pictures for their products that the US "manufacturer" has on their website for the same product...
 
99% of the stuff you buy locally comes from the same Chinese factories so if it weren't safe we'd be in trouble anyway. I'm not kidding, some Chinese sellers even have the same pictures for their products that the US "manufacturer" has on their website for the same product...

Thanks, but I guess some things it is still better to buy local, like pressure valves for example, no ?
 
I'm not sure why that would be. What difference would it make if the valve were to blow up whether you've bought it locally at twice the price or ordered it online from the manufacturer? Assuming of course that it's the same product made in the same Chinese factory, which will indeed be the case 99% of the time.
 
I'm not sure why that would be. What difference would it make if the valve were to blow up whether you've bought it locally at twice the price or ordered it online from the manufacturer? Assuming of course that it's the same product made in the same Chinese factory, which will indeed be the case 99% of the time.

no in this case I'm comparing a well known company to Aliexpress because of the significance of the part.
 
If you're 100% sure that the part belongs to that 1% of parts that are not made in China then your point could have some merit, but if you're buying the same part for twice the money I'm sure you'll agree that the only difference is that your wallet will be much lighter after the purchase, right? ;)
 
If you're 100% sure that the part belongs to that 1% of parts that are not made in China then your point could have some merit, but if you're buying the same part for twice the money I'm sure you'll agree that the only difference is that your wallet will be much lighter after the purchase, right? ;)
Yes of course
 
But what about the actual question, should I spend 2 or 3 times more on a local manufacturer or is it OK to buy from Aliexpress?
 
I'm not sure that it's the exact same product just because the pictures are the same. They could just be borrowing the pictures.

This is just me guessing, but hopefully the importers gets some kind of documentation that the product is within specs.
 
But what about the actual question, should I spend 2 or 3 times more on a local manufacturer or is it OK to buy from Aliexpress?
If the item is really made in the USA then it's really up to you to decide whether you want to pay a premium for the "Proudly made in the US" sticker... ;)
Personally I've bought a tonload of accessories directly from China on Ali and have been happy with my purchases each and every time.
 
This is just me guessing, but hopefully the importers gets some kind of documentation that the product is within specs.
Yeah I'm sure there is a piece of paper written in Chinese in there somewhere... :p:rolleyes:
 
I bought a product from Ali in April and have still yet to receive it. Prob has a lot to do with COVID. Regardless take that into consideration for the time being
 
I bought a product from Ali in April and have still yet to receive it. Prob has a lot to do with COVID. Regardless take that into consideration for the time being
Yes of course, this is something to concider as well if you need the part urgently.
 
I bought a product from Ali in April and have still yet to receive it. Prob has a lot to do with COVID. Regardless take that into consideration for the time being
Yeah, it’s taking a while now. I recently received items I ordered in mid February.
 
99% of the stuff you buy locally comes from the same Chinese factories so if it weren't safe we'd be in trouble anyway. I'm not kidding, some Chinese sellers even have the same pictures for their products that the US "manufacturer" has on their website for the same product...

Sometimes (most of the companies I deal with) have a quality control person in the factories in China. It may be the same factory line and same employees but without outside observation certain steps to save time/money will be skipped. The standards can be very different from 1 **** to the next... Sometimes a few dollars up front will be cheaper in the long run.
 
I seriously doubt amateur brewing equipment "manufacturers" can afford quality control personnel on-site. I'm pretty sure QC is done at the domestic warehouse and judging by the number of complaints popping up in this forum now and then (without singling out any particualr brand, of course) I'd say even that is sometimes a bit lacking...
But of course everyone has to decide what's good enough for them.
 
I would tend to agree with Vale 71. If what you are buying is coming from China anyway, there is really no reason not to cut out the middleman and save when its possible. On the other hand, if you are considering buying something locally made, it might be worth spending more on two levels.
First its possible that you are going to get a higher quality product. I don't know with every product but for example with tools I have a good selection of things like ratchets and such made in Canada or the US from my father. When I compare it to tools you buy now, which except for very expensive high end tools are made in China, tools made in China are noticeably less well made in my personal experience. Snap on tools made in the US are good quality but I don't have many new ones. Snap on branded stuff coming from China is not the same. I have a few things from China branded Snap on and they are not particularly good. So for things that you really need to count on it might be worthwhile quality wise to buy things made locally. With tools a really precise, durable tool can sometimes make the difference.
Second when you buy something made locally the majority of the money is cycled into the domestic economy. Workers who make stuff generally spend the vast majority of their wages each pay period, so there can be a strong economic multiplier effect from this. Its also the case that many industries build up support industries that are also good for the economy. If you make something, you need to purchase the tooling and raw materials, this can be a real boost for the economy, particularly in higher tech industries where designing and building the tools and equipment requires highly skilled decently paid people.
Much of the money from stuff you buy that a local seller has imported, or bought from an importer, goes directly out of the country. It ends up building/improving Chinese manufacturing infrastructure and making good skilled employment in China. That's good in a way, stable high quality jobs anywhere make the world a better place, but I don't want to give up on having these types of jobs in my own society. The people profiting from importing these things into Canada and the US make their living through buying and selling and tend to be wealthy enough that a large portion of the profits becomes accumulated wealth, rather than income spent on day to day expenses which really keeps the economy rolling. A large amount of money split between a lot of people who will spend it on day to day living, consumer goods, a boat, an rv, the family car etc. stimulates the economy infinitely more than that same amount of money held by a single very wealthy person who uses it to control assets that they extract profit from. Access to capital is important, but in developed countries today there is way more capital than is needed for the productive processes in our economy, and much of it just gets shifted around at high speed electronically looking for a very short term better rate of return, which is useless (or at least very inefficient) for any real productive investment in the economy that produces goods and services we need to satisfy society's needs and wants.
So buying imported stuff from a local reseller doesn't really help our economy in the same way that buying something produced locally would, in fact it helps keep importing finished products and exporting the wealth we have produced in our own society profitable. You might as well buy it directly from Ali Express if you can and spend the difference on beer or something else made locally by people who have decent jobs.
As far as quality control, its possible that you might have someone looking at the part before they ship it to you here, but only the biggest players have orders that are big enough that the factories are willing to change their production standard practice to get the contract.

All in all, if you are going to be buying a Chinese made item there is probably no good reason to buy from a domestic middleman than Ali Express.

Sorry for the wall of text trade and society is an area I am interested in.
 
My sister buys a lot from Ali and it sounds like half the time she gets sent something different than what she ordered. Apparently that's part of the fun!

I've only bought from there twice, and both times from a third party seller with a good rep from a forum.
 
I bought 12 triclamps and 3 SS 1.5 TC butterfly from ali and they came fast, and without issue. they are not show room pretty, but i do not really care that there is a small dimple on the outside of the housing on the butterflies. the butterfly paddle was polished and sealed great. I paid 24.99 a valve and ~90 cents a TC

on the side note - ali sent me a very tiny plastic putty knife out of the blue about 1 month after the valves and tcs came in
 
I'm not wishing to pour cold water on American manufacturing, but just because it says "Made in USA" does not mean that it cannot also be total crap. The US has lost a lot of edge in this area over the past 40 years or so, and while many companies are good/great (and in home brewing, I really like Spike's weld quality), there are also many that are not so great. Just look at auto manufacturing or shipbuilding of "sophisticated" vessels in the US versus SKorea. You simply cannot make a quality ship here any more, and our Navy (for which shipyards are protected by the Jones Act) can barely get their ships built, usually way over schedule, fantastically busted budgets and with poor quality. Long way of saying that, without having specific knowledge of the manufacturer, you probably have as good a chance anywhere with what you get. A more important factor may be how easy (incl. time/cost) it is to get a defective or wrong item corrected, and that may be the best value of using an American supplier (even if it is a foreign-made part).
 
There are a lot of incorrect assumptions stated in this thread so I'll just rant incoherently for a bit.

U.S. Middlemen. Do you think I just buy Aliexpress items in bulk and sell them for a higher price? There are items that have been around for decades that everyone sells that are made in several Chinese factories so they are ubiquitous and generally the same. Sure.

A LOT of the items I have invented, engineered in CAD, prototype, and ultimately bid out to Chinese factories get stolen by the same factories and boom they are on Aliexpress and Amazon. I put all the cost into the development and sometimes pay for tooling costs. They use the tooling to produce a few hundred more and sell them direct. No one gets hurt right?

Here's an even bigger rub. When I import a pallet of goods, I'm paying 10-25% import duty that goes directly to our government. When you buy one fitting on Aliexpress, no one pays import duty on it. Unfair advantage to the design thieves.

I understand shopping for a bargain, but just do so knowing it's not a victimless situation in every case.
 
99% of the stuff you buy locally comes from the same Chinese factories so if it weren't safe we'd be in trouble anyway. I'm not kidding, some Chinese sellers even have the same pictures for their products that the US "manufacturer" has on their website for the same product...
DITTO except the US manufacturer is usually just reselling while "implying" its an american or better product in some cases. In others the products can be inferior knock offs or even superior knock offs like in the case of most of the chinese made grain mills sold under dozens of brand names.
 
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There are a lot of incorrect assumptions stated in this thread so I'll just rant incoherently for a bit.

U.S. Middlemen. Do you think I just buy Aliexpress items in bulk and sell them for a higher price? There are items that have been around for decades that everyone sells that are made in several Chinese factories so they are ubiquitous and generally the same. Sure.

A LOT of the items I have invented, engineered in CAD, prototype, and ultimately bid out to Chinese factories get stolen by the same factories and boom they are on Aliexpress and Amazon. I put all the cost into the development and sometimes pay for tooling costs. They use the tooling to produce a few hundred more and sell them direct. No one gets hurt right?

Here's an even bigger rub. When I import a pallet of goods, I'm paying 10-25% import duty that goes directly to our government. When you buy one fitting on Aliexpress, no one pays import duty on it. Unfair advantage to the design thieves.

I understand shopping for a bargain, but just do so knowing it's not a victimless situation in every case.
These are valid points and food for thought. Do you consider yourself a "middleman" though or a supplier who has your unique products made there? and if its a generic part surely you can get it for the same price or a bit less in quantity from the same suppliers selling direct so cheaply before duties and such. This way with your markup it will still be more than the internet street price from china but not multiple times higher.
Tough spot to be in for sure... The worst part about it is apparently the american manufacturers are just too expensive to bother taking your plans to in the first place to prevent this. Especially knowing going in what will happen 90% of the time when dealing with having a chinese suppier make a product for you. maybe the regulations or lack of willing suppliers in the states is the problem Or maybe its just that much more profitable to purchase from these chinese suppliers even though they steal the designs and ideas?

On the flip side, I'll rant as well as a consumer. It can be frustrating to see such higher prices from american sellers selling chinese goods. and then rebranding these same generic good like say A Solid state relay or temp probe from auberins at 2-4 times the price. Or the TC based heating elements I bought like 4 years ago for $16 +$16 shipping each that at the time were $75 + shipping from US suppliers. I remember getting reamed out first being told I was lying about purchasing them for whatr I paid, then about how inferior the ones I bought were only to find out they werent really at all. Apparently Brewboss had that much overhead for CAD drawing adding a tc plate and a spot welded 30a plug to camcos ripple heating element design. Thats frustrating to see. Especially when there were no certification costs like CE or UL listing involved in marketing these like most items of the sort that I know of at the time. I'm sure theres more to that whole story than im aware and sure it makes sense to charge what you can when your the only person with the design but as a consumer it doesnt look good when you see a chinese element for almost 5x more from one supplier than what appears to be the same thing from another. if the cost was say 35% or even 50% higher sure.. but almost 5 times? I buy a lot of Stuff from your website and I not that it matters but I think your one of the most inovative and best suppliers of brewing equipment avaliable and ive found your prices are most often very reasonable so please dont take that example as an attack, just an assumption from my point of view on one item, based on my limited experience and observations and from use of that one item which I happen to have 14 of now with zero issues or failures with weekly use over the years. and the competition seems to have brought the price down on the brew-boss website from $75 to 50 now.

Also lets take for example a much larger purchase like say these 3.5bbl dual zone jacketed unitanks.
10.jpg
I got them from the supplier who makes them for stout and of course brewmation who sells the stout branded ones with an additional markup tacked on. (I bought mine through alibaba which is aliexpresses wholesale site more or less from sungood machinery) . I ordered them custom sized and layed out and I was sent the Cad drawing to approve before purchase. I paid $2,900 each for the actual items in the picture.(3,150 with sight glasses and additional parts like racking arms and spunding valves and such) Stout does not list the price for what they sell thier version of them for. BUT and this is a big but, the cheaper smaller single zone jacketed version with cheaper plastic manway fasteners and no accessories sells for $4,659 each... I paid Duty, customs,taxes and shipping and let me tell you I still paid likely less or about the same for all THREE of the pictured fermenters than it would have cost with shipping for just 2 of the cheaper smaller fermenters from stout. Thats a HUGE cost discrepancy. Now we bought our Hot side kettles from the same supplier previously for about half the cost than going through stouts website at the time and 3 months less estimated wait time.
 
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no in this case I'm comparing a well known company to Aliexpress because of the significance of the part.
Maybe you can share the aliexpress part your looking at and one of us might have experience with it? I have bought a lot of stuff there.. most of its been pretty good. I did buy a stainless float valve which wasnt completely stainless and rusted... I also bought both my flow control intertap faucets as well as my stainless perlick clones that use the intertap style spouts and those have worked very well.
 
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