German Pils Tiber's Premium Pils (1st Place German style Pilsner)
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OP
OP
I've tried W-34/70 before and got similar results to when I used WLP830 German Lager, which is said to be the same strain. It was good, but was a bit on the malty side for my taste. I'm looking for that more balanced, crisp dry finish that I get from German imports, and I get more of that from the WLP833 Bock Lager yeast. Either of these yeasts will produce a fine lager, provided your process is sound.
Justdrumin
Well-Known Member
Have you ever tried a decoction mash with this recipe? I've been looking for an authentic pils recipe and it looks like I've found one! I am getting more and more interested in German styles and brewing them with traditional German brewing methods.
OP
OP
I have. I thought it turned out great, but not worth the added time and effort in my opinion. I emulate that a bit with a step mash via my HERMS and adding a small amount of melanoidin malt. Lately, I've been brewing this without the melanoidin and love it. The more important thing to me is the effect of the step mash, not the maillard reactions from the decoction.
Justdrumin
Well-Known Member
I've heard so many conflicting stories about decoction mashing. A lot of people claim that the decoction mash is absolutely necessary and some people say it's a waste of time. I have yet to do one myself. I have an Oktoberfest planned for March and I plan to do a triple decoction using Kaisers method. So I guess I'll find out for myself then. I was just curious if you've noticed a difference. I'm sure the step mash and a good long boil probably gets the job done just fine.
OP
OP
A decoction mash turns my 6 hour brew day into a 9 hour brew day. Does it make a difference? Sure. An appreciable difference? You could argue either way. Is it worth it? Not for a German Pils, in my opinion. Maybe more worth while for a Czech Pils...
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Justdrumin
Well-Known Member
Good to know!! Thanks for the reply. I'll skip it for now then and stick with the step mash you have outlined. Thanks for the recipe. Sounds like a good one. I love the k.i.s.s. method when it comes to recipes. Lately I've been sticking to simple grain bills and hop schedules and it's working out great.
thanks! definitely need a sound process when brewing pilsners.
OP
OP
Exactly. It's more of a process beer than an ingredient beer. Of course, quality ingredients are still important
OP
OP
That's singing the song of the Pilsner right there. A properly researched and well executed process with simple, delicately balanced ingredients forms an amalgamation that can only be performed and appreciated by few brewers and connoisseurs.
Here's an update.
Just tapped my second keg out of a 10 gallon batch of this, which had a few weeks longer than the first keg to lager. The first keg at 3-4 weeks lagering was very nice and crisp. This one even more so. Even considering the old cheesy hops(Doh! Never again!)) I used contributing to a very off taste in the first keg, this has mellowed considerably, and is still one of the most balanced/refreshing lagers I have brewed thus far. Anyone have any suggestions what to add/take away from this recipe to get closer to a Czech Pilsner. I'm really wanting to avoid a decoction if possible. Would a step mash be needed for a Czech style? What does this add? If so, Should I follow the same step schedule? Add the Melanoiden Malt in the original recipe?
Cheers! Here's a pic from the second keg. The head on this thing looks like whipped egg whites!
Just tapped my second keg out of a 10 gallon batch of this, which had a few weeks longer than the first keg to lager. The first keg at 3-4 weeks lagering was very nice and crisp. This one even more so. Even considering the old cheesy hops(Doh! Never again!)) I used contributing to a very off taste in the first keg, this has mellowed considerably, and is still one of the most balanced/refreshing lagers I have brewed thus far. Anyone have any suggestions what to add/take away from this recipe to get closer to a Czech Pilsner. I'm really wanting to avoid a decoction if possible. Would a step mash be needed for a Czech style? What does this add? If so, Should I follow the same step schedule? Add the Melanoiden Malt in the original recipe?
Cheers! Here's a pic from the second keg. The head on this thing looks like whipped egg whites!
OP
OP
Looks good.
As for turning this into a Czech Pils, that's a whole other beast. The water is different, the malt bill is different, hops and IBUs are different, and both the mash and boil are different. Without going into too much detail, start with very low ion water (usually just build up from RO), Mash a bit at 140, step up to 158 to finish. 2.5 hour boil, ~42 IBU, all Czech Saaz hops, the Urquell strain of lager yeast, and then you're close to my Czech Pils recipe. All Pils malt with a tad of either Melanoiden, Caramunich, or Aromatic. You can also use about 8-10% Vienna. It's up to you. Multiple kettle additions of Saaz, no whirlpool or dry hop. Really, though, this is topic for another thread. Here we're focused on German Pils.
As for turning this into a Czech Pils, that's a whole other beast. The water is different, the malt bill is different, hops and IBUs are different, and both the mash and boil are different. Without going into too much detail, start with very low ion water (usually just build up from RO), Mash a bit at 140, step up to 158 to finish. 2.5 hour boil, ~42 IBU, all Czech Saaz hops, the Urquell strain of lager yeast, and then you're close to my Czech Pils recipe. All Pils malt with a tad of either Melanoiden, Caramunich, or Aromatic. You can also use about 8-10% Vienna. It's up to you. Multiple kettle additions of Saaz, no whirlpool or dry hop. Really, though, this is topic for another thread. Here we're focused on German Pils.
OP
OP
Oh, no worries, bud. I'd be happy help you with a Czech Pils if you want to PM me or start a new thread.
GrowlerMonkey
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Looks like a solid recipe! I'll be brewing this up Wednesday night along with a Vienna lager. I also wouldn't mind help putting together a nice Czech pils recipe. Sounds like you know what you're doing!
OP
OP
Hope your brew day goes well. I'm drinking a pint of this Pils as I brew today
I'd be glad to help you with a Czech Pils. PM me or start a thread in the recipes/ingredients section and we'll see what we can do.
part16john
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Great simple recipe, my first step mash on electric system, used brulosophy lager method.
OP
OP
Looks good
GrowlerMonkey
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So I've had this in the kegerator for a little over 2 months now, and it is phenomenal! I'm having a hard time deciding whether I like Russian Rivers STS Pils more or this (which is saying a lot) I'm thinking of doing it again soon, but I've got a question
.do you think this would benefit at all from a floor malted Pilsner with just a basic step mash? And if so, what mash schedule would you go with? Thanks for all the great Pils/Lager recipes you've posted, I'm quickly going through them all!
Cheers!
Cheers!
OP
OP
Great! I'm glad it turned out well for you. I've never had RR Pils before, but I buy every single American made Pilsner I see and always compare it mine. Of course I'm biased, but myself, friends, and brew club members always prefer mine. There are, however, some German made Pilsners that I prefer over mine.
I used to buy undermodified floor malted continental Pils malt and used that for my German Pilsners, Czech Pilsners, Kölsch, Helles, etc. It was very good. I can't say it was better without sampling it side by side with recipes using fully modified Pils malts, though.
If you want to use undermodified (in some cases floor malted) Pils malt for this recipe, I'd start with a 15 minute step at 113F, then (rather slowly) step up to the 140, 150, 158, 168 (MO) as per my graph in the original recipe. You can skip the 158 step, but I feel that it gives just a bit more dextrinous complexity. Either way, you'll have a good mash schedule.
You're welcome! It's good to see another fan of the simple, yet extraordinary, light lagers/hybrids! I just put my latest batch of this Ger Pils on tap yesterday - always good to have something like this on tap!
Cheers,
TB
part16john
Well-Known Member
Took 1st place in category in KY state fair with wyeast pilsen yeast and I didn't use melanoiden malt. One of my favorite brews.
Finished my keg of this about 10 minutes ago. Made as per recipe without melanoiden but subbed with Pacifica hops which is a Hallertau derivative - can't get Hallertau in NZ. Absolutely delicious and will rebrew next winter with no changes.
OP
OP
I've gone through over 20 gallons of this beer so far this summer, and brewing up another batch this Thursday. We just can't get enough
I just brewed a batch this weekend. It is my first lager and probably the closest I have followed a recipe so far. I used distilled water with some calcium chloride to stay close with the water profile, and I also discovered that my well water has high mineral content.
I finally have the ability to control temp during fermentation, and it is bubbling away happily at 50 degrees right now. I will bump it up in a few days. Brew day was pretty smooth. I am going to have a hard time being patient with this one!
I finally have the ability to control temp during fermentation, and it is bubbling away happily at 50 degrees right now. I will bump it up in a few days. Brew day was pretty smooth. I am going to have a hard time being patient with this one!
So I am lagering this beer now. I took my final gravity reading and ended up with a much bigger beer than I had planned.
I usually do a single infusion mash, but I followed the step mash in the recipe and ended up with much better efficiency than usual. Since I had better efficiency, I ended up with a 1.061 OG and a 1.008 FG, which means a 6.9% beer. Guess it's an imperial pils now...so much for sticking to the recipe!
I usually do a single infusion mash, but I followed the step mash in the recipe and ended up with much better efficiency than usual. Since I had better efficiency, I ended up with a 1.061 OG and a 1.008 FG, which means a 6.9% beer. Guess it's an imperial pils now...so much for sticking to the recipe!
OP
OP
That's OK. Did you check pre-boil gravity? Adjust bittering hops appropriately? Don't worry if you didn't; you'll have less bitterness than targeted, but it should still be plenty drinkable.
Now you can use less malt to get the proper OG next time. Always nice to save a few bucks!
I don't check pre-boil gravity because I don't know how it should compare to my desired OG.
I have a pretty consistently terrible brewhouse efficiency (58-60%) so I bump up the grain bill to account for that.
I have been trying to improve my efficiency, and clearly the step mash is more effective than other things I have tried. I will probably use it more often!
I have a pretty consistently terrible brewhouse efficiency (58-60%) so I bump up the grain bill to account for that.
I have been trying to improve my efficiency, and clearly the step mash is more effective than other things I have tried. I will probably use it more often!
OP
OP
Pre-boil specific gravity points = (Post-boil volume * Post-boil gravity points) / Pre-boil volume
Using this formula, you can fairly accurately predict what your post-boil OG will be if you know your post-boil volume (should be consistent from batch to batch).
In addition to step mashing, paying attention to mash pH, a nice long slow sparge, proper malt crush, and relatively thick mash thickness can help increase your efficiency. There are lots of threads on HBT to help you with efficiency issues, too.
Best of luck!
