American Pale Ale Three Floyds Zombie Dust Clone
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gregorybriscoe
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Yeah buddy!
Plugging in the numbers of the PM version from the first post into Beersmith and BrewTarget, the numbers match...Check your equipment profile and fermentables again?
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
I'm kegging my batch of this tonight, can't wait to see how it's doing!
Hey fellow home brewers,
I am making the extract version this weekened. I have read much of this thread and the posts from the extract guys who didnt hit their gravity numbers concerns me. I like my IPAs to be strong and would consider this a failure if my beer came in at 5%.
I would like to add an extra lb of dme. Any suggestions as to extra hops amounts to balance the additional dme?
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I am making the extract version this weekened. I have read much of this thread and the posts from the extract guys who didnt hit their gravity numbers concerns me. I like my IPAs to be strong and would consider this a failure if my beer came in at 5%.
I would like to add an extra lb of dme. Any suggestions as to extra hops amounts to balance the additional dme?
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jakenbacon
Well-Known Member
If you use the proper amount of water with the extracts listed, then it is nearly impossible not to hit the determined O.G.....
Im sure you are right. But reading through this thread showed there are several that did not.
Even if I nail the OG, I would not be in the least upset by a bit more ABV from extra fermentables
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
If you hit the SG, there is no need for more hops. Check your pre boil SG, do some calculations, and see what you need to add to get there for Post boil SG (if you do)
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
Kegged this last night (day 18). It had a fantastic smell, but I poured a little bit off the tap just to taste it and it had an acrid/sulfur taste. Very strange, I've never had that before. I'm assuming because it's still really young it's giving off this flavor.
So mine is about a month old and it's very astringent. Probably the most astringent beer I've brewed.
Here's what the BJCP says causes astringency:
- Extraction of tannins (overcrushing, oversparging) - I did the batch BIAB and did double crush and I squeeze my bag. But I've heard tannin extraction is a function of temperature and pH. Mash temps were fine and pH was corrected to 5.47.
- Alkaline mash or runoff water - I did a dunk sparge, but the sparge water was acidified per Bru'n Water.
- excessive hopping - Obviously there are hops in this one. I did up the 60 min hops to get 44.5 IBUs so my total IBUs would be higher - 82 IBUs total calculated.
- Polyphenols from acetobacter - I don't know what this is but I'm assuming it wasn't my issue.
- Spices - NA.
So could any of those cause it?
More info if necessary. It was in primary for 10 days total. Dry hopped last 5 days. At final gravity when I tested it the first time at 5 days. Kegged after 10 days. Set and forget method at ~10 psi at ~42F.
This was my most aggressive mineral addition to date using the "pale ale" profile in Bru'n Water, but I know many people like that one. Here was my finished water profile:
Ca - 106 ppm
Mg - 25 ppm
Na - 26 ppm
SO4 - 300 ppm
Cl - 37 ppm
HCO3 - 36 ppm
Any ideas what could have gone wrong? It's still a decent beer, but it's hard to drink more than a little bit because it's so drying.
Here's what the BJCP says causes astringency:
- Extraction of tannins (overcrushing, oversparging) - I did the batch BIAB and did double crush and I squeeze my bag. But I've heard tannin extraction is a function of temperature and pH. Mash temps were fine and pH was corrected to 5.47.
- Alkaline mash or runoff water - I did a dunk sparge, but the sparge water was acidified per Bru'n Water.
- excessive hopping - Obviously there are hops in this one. I did up the 60 min hops to get 44.5 IBUs so my total IBUs would be higher - 82 IBUs total calculated.
- Polyphenols from acetobacter - I don't know what this is but I'm assuming it wasn't my issue.
- Spices - NA.
So could any of those cause it?
More info if necessary. It was in primary for 10 days total. Dry hopped last 5 days. At final gravity when I tested it the first time at 5 days. Kegged after 10 days. Set and forget method at ~10 psi at ~42F.
This was my most aggressive mineral addition to date using the "pale ale" profile in Bru'n Water, but I know many people like that one. Here was my finished water profile:
Ca - 106 ppm
Mg - 25 ppm
Na - 26 ppm
SO4 - 300 ppm
Cl - 37 ppm
HCO3 - 36 ppm
Any ideas what could have gone wrong? It's still a decent beer, but it's hard to drink more than a little bit because it's so drying.
rafaelpinto
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Judging from the pictures, this brew has no head retention power. Would adding flaked oats do any harm?
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
I always have good head retention.
I'm going to try lagering this instead of the normal ale method. I'll report back with results in a month or two.
mister704
Well-Known Member
I am dry hopping today...let it sit for 10 days even though it already smells like a citrus explosion. Will bottle next weekend.
Mx750ktm
Well-Known Member
I have read a lot of pages on this recipe but will be brewing tom and I have two questions.
For the first wort hop I'm supposed to add them as I'm straining and sparging my biab? And then just continue on as normal?
Lastly I just got around to getting the ingredients tonight and would like to brew tom and was curious if 2 packets of S-04 would be enough for this beer?
Any help would be appreciated thanks
For the first wort hop I'm supposed to add them as I'm straining and sparging my biab? And then just continue on as normal?
Lastly I just got around to getting the ingredients tonight and would like to brew tom and was curious if 2 packets of S-04 would be enough for this beer?
Any help would be appreciated thanks
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Yes, more than enough (I have used 1 pack several times). Check out this yeast pitching calculator: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
Mx750ktm
Well-Known Member
Alright thanks for you quick reply. What's the advantage of adding your first wort hop that early. Does it make it more bitter or what's the reasoning in it?
Also I was using a yeast pitching calculator on brewersfriend.com but it was showing even with 2 packets I would be quite a bit short and that didn't seem right to me. It must not be to accurate.
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
It provides a smoother bitterness, some say similar to a 20 minute addition. That is why the recipe calculates it as a 20 min FWH addition, not 60.
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
Funny that I just listened to the Brew Strong podcast on imperial IPAs from last year and Jamil doesn't like FWH and mash hops. He said in blind tests with him and others that it gives a harsher bitterness. Which I know is the opposite of what everyone says here. Just another data point.
TheCanisDirus
Well-Known Member
That's odd... i was listening to a recent one where Jamil and John were saying positive things about FWH. I believe it might have been the recent Crosby Farms episode... or something in the last 3 months (that i'm sure of". Wonder if he changed his mind with something they experimented with at Heretic.
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
I spoke to soon. I pulled the first two pints or so off the keg, which had a funky flavor, but the rest is fantastic already.
Bizarre. Perhaps he did change his mind but he was very clear that he did blind testing and he didn't like it and that anyone that did like it wasn't doing blind testing.That's odd... i was listening to a recent one where Jamil and John were saying positive things about FWH. I believe it might have been the recent Crosby Farms episode... or something in the last 3 months (that i'm sure of". Wonder if he changed his mind with something they experimented with at Heretic.
This makes me think that I'm using my keg wrong. I've only kegged 2 beers so far and both tasted terrible for the first few weeks over multiple samples and then tasted great. But I only take small samples at first.
Typically I will pour off a couple ounces to clear what's in the line and drink that, then I'll pour a small ~4 oz sample. I repeat that every few days and I've come to the conclusion that my beer tastes better after 4 weeks in the keg (~6 weeks after brewing). These were both IPAs too. But perhaps I should be pulling off a couple pints right away? And then I can drink the rest. Is it due to the yeast settling at the bottom, which you're clearing off after a couple pints?
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
I think it was due to the ridiculous amount of hops used in the beer. I didn't filter out anything post boil or when I kegged, so all that hop gunk was still floating around. once that all settled to the bottom, I could pull it off with a few pints and then it's good to go. that's my theory at least hahaha
That could be it too. I did use a hop spider with a paint strainer bag for all the kettle hops and a paint strainer for the dry hops, so I probably didn't have as many hop particles, but I'm sure there is still some.
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
Jamil is definitely a expert and very knowledgeable and I am someone who plays around with making beer on my patio, so I am not going to say he is wrong. I have not listened to either of the episodes mentioned above, however I am curious to their their method of determining "harshness". If at some point there is scientific evidence proving that there is no benefit to using FWH I would still use it because if nothing else it smells great.
In my opinion, the "harshness" probably depends on things such as hop type, style of beer, or the person's pallette---similar to the flavors that certain hops/yeast/etc give. Maybe the whole "FWH makes it less harsh/more flavor & aroma/etc" thing is fictional, but you would have a hard time convincing me that this recipe tastes like it has ~85 ibus, which is what it would calculate as a 60 minute addition. It tastes more like 55-65 based on other beers I have drank that were advertised as having a similar IBU count. I have never cared enough to send any in to a lab to see what the actual IBU count is, but if FFF did and it is indeed ~60, then this one is much closer to that than 85.
Here is a quote from Denny Conn, who did an experiment with Jamil on FWH: "Jamil participated in a FWH experiment I did. Like Joe said, the results were kinda all over the place. It's subjective, it seems, and you have to make up your own mind. To my tastebuds, FWH adds the same amount of bitterness as a 20 min. addition. That means that in in Promash, I set my my FWH utilization to -65. Other people have other perceptions. When I did the experiment, I split a batch of wort. One half got only a 60 min. Cascade addition, the other got only the same amount of Cascade as FWH. The results were split between which tasted hoppier. When I had them analyzed, the FWH beer had about 2 more IBU than the 60 min. only beer. But to many people, it didn't taste as hoppy. " If anyone has a link to the report/results of that experiment I would like to check it out. My quick search for it came up empty.
did my first BIAB with this as a 3gal batch. Missed the OG a bit which i think was due to my mash temp which dropped to about 149 halfway through. Smells awesome in the fermenter and went crazy in the first 24 hours and has calmed down since.
hoping everything goes well - will dry hop for about 6 days after about 10 days of fermenting. Hoping for a nice tasty IPA even if it doesn't come out exactly like ZD
hoping everything goes well - will dry hop for about 6 days after about 10 days of fermenting. Hoping for a nice tasty IPA even if it doesn't come out exactly like ZD
Mx750ktm
Well-Known Member
Just brewed this via biab. It's cooling down now!! Half way through the mash I happened to realize that he lhbs didn't give many any C60 hopefully the half pound isn't make or break on this recipe
I just ordered the ingredients to brew this, though I subbed the carafoam for some 10L cara grain, is that OK? I did some reading and that seemed to be the general conensus.
I haven't listened to it yet, but interestingly based on the FWH discussion earlier, Basic Brewing Radio just added a podcast about hopping techniques:
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skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
I will check that out tomorrow!
So I listened today and what I got out of it was that mash hopping was different from FWH and 60 minute additions, but those methods produced very similar beers. They didn't give out the IBU numbers (will at a conference later), but the taste perceptions were they were very similar and if anything, I heard people say the FWH tasted more bitter, which makes sense despite what everyone says because they are in there at near boiling for longer than the 60 minute addition so you are going to get more IBUs from that (we'll see if the measurements back that up).
Obviously this is just one test and I'd be curious to see what it did to the IBU numbers, but honestly taste is really all that matters here. But I think for me it just means I don't have to be so paranoid about dropping in the 60 minute hops at exactly the first sign of boiling. After pulling my BIAB and starting to heat, I can get my hop spider ready and just dump in the bittering hops at any point before it boils. I don't need to be so concerned with getting them in the second I pull the bag for FWH or the second I see the first bubble for 60 minute hops.
Obviously this is just one test and I'd be curious to see what it did to the IBU numbers, but honestly taste is really all that matters here. But I think for me it just means I don't have to be so paranoid about dropping in the 60 minute hops at exactly the first sign of boiling. After pulling my BIAB and starting to heat, I can get my hop spider ready and just dump in the bittering hops at any point before it boils. I don't need to be so concerned with getting them in the second I pull the bag for FWH or the second I see the first bubble for 60 minute hops.
I have brewed this beer both ways (60 min and FWH) and the FWH was definitely more bitter. Brewed 10 gallon AG with no other changes both times. I prefer the FWH and I think it is closer to ZD but my wife on the other hand liked the 60 minute version... Both were great so I wouldn't sweat it either way.
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Komodo
Well-Known Member
I always find him slightly conservative about stuff, but I don't think that's really surprising. Lots of brewers start out doing "hazelnut chocolate banana razz berry stout" and then later on simplify.
What drives me insane about Jamil is that he sounds EXACTLY like Phil Helmuth. Anyone play poker?
Good to know. Thanks
