Thornbridge Jaipur IPA - yeast? Hops?

[meadowstream]

Thornbridge Jaipur IPA is superb. I would really like to brew this at home. Does anyone know what yeast they use and what combination of hops?

 

[Nugent]

No, but I will be watching this post closely.

Here are a few posts from a UK homebrewing website:

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35848
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33291

This is a recipe that was apparently based on Jaipur; from the same site:

21lt 1052 OG 1010 FG
ABV 5.6%
IBU 56
Based on mash efficiency of 75%
All liquor treated using a Campden tablet also CRS and DLS to brupaks recommendations.

Malts-
5kg Maris Otter (Low Colour)
166g Vienna Malt

Hops-
11g Northern Brewer 8%aa (10 IBU) 75 min boil
10g Centennial 10%aa (11.3 IBU) 75 min boil
8g Amarillo 9.6%aa (8.5 IBU) 75 min boil
10g Northern Brewer 8%aa (8.1 IBU) 45 min boil
10g Centennial 10%aa (10.1 IBU) 45 min boil
8g Amarillo 9.6%aa (7.5 IBU) 45 min boil
40g Northern Brewer 8%aa At turn off and steeped for 30 min
40g Centennial 10% At turn off and steeped for 30 min
30g Amarillo 9.6%aa At turn off and steeped for 30 min

Yeast-
Nottingham x 2 sachets

Whirlfloc Tablet 15 mins boil

13lt mash liquor and mashed at 65.5C for 90 min then fly sparged, stopping sparging with final running’s at 1024 SG.
Boiled for 75mins. (Preboil SG 1043). Chilled and then fermented at 20C for 5 days then 18C for a further 5 days then kegged and bottled

Good luck, man.

 

[Nugent]

http://www.thornbridgebrewery.co.uk/how_we_brew.php

 

[ChillWill]

Jaipur doesn't have any Northern Brewer or Amarillo in it.

The recipe on the second page would be a much better place to start.
http://jimshomebrewforum.co.uk/view...sid=804ce5ecfa352d86e4efd14834d9e32d&start=15

 

[meadowstream]

Was interesting to read from the Thornbridge link above that 70% of hops come post-boil. Looks like a hop rocket or other will be in my plans!

 

[ChillWill]

We have a hopback so the 10min additions etc aren't really necessary.

Also, we have a whirlpool copper and you can only use pellets in there as cones/flowers don't collect properly in the middle, and we don't like using tons of pellet hops as they often give a bit of a grassy/woody flavour.

 

[Nugent]

Wow. Cheers, ChillWill.

I will safely assume that based on your info and the location in your profile that you know what you're talking about for a number of reasons. Clearly, it's a matter of technique over hop additions when it comes to hop flavour in Jaipur. Will certainly check out the recipe you mentioned. It's one of my favourite beers and I can't stop raving about it to my beery mates. Cannot wait to try in on cask next time I'm in the UK.

First heard about Jaipur on James and Oz Drink to Britain; first found it in Seattle at Bottleworks; and, was thrilled to see it in private bottle shops in Vancouver a few months ago. As a matter of fact, I'm about to go downstairs to have one right now.

 

[ChillWill]

Nice

We recently sent a tanker full of a few of our beers (Jaipur, kipling, st petersberg & raven). It's going to be put into kegs and casks when it gets there, not sure what is going to be put into cask and how they're going to do it (we sent in over fully carbonated for keg and had centrifuged the yeast out of it).

The recipe I posted isn't exact but it's actually surprisingly close. Do you do any water adjustments?

Oh... and are there some numbers printed on the rear label on the bottle you have (like 73/74), there's a good chance I was running the bottling line when those were filled.

 

[bigbopper]

awesome,can you convert that recipie

 

[ChillWill]

Geez, do you want me to brew it for you as well? lol j/k

I'll try and do it this afternoon, I usually use American units (as that tends to be what all the online calculators etc tend to be in), and I don't use English hb sites as England isn't 'quite there' with homebrewing yet to put it politely.

 

[ChillWill]

Right, VERY rough conversion of the recipe on the JIM'S beer kit to 5 US gallons with a pre-boil of 6 gallons (in reality I'm not sure what your boiloff will be so you'll have to adjust that), and efficiency of 75%.

OG: 1.064, FG 1.016

Malt:
Maris Otter: 10lb
Vienna: 1.16lb

Hops:
0.27oz Ahtanum (5%) 75min
0.32oz Centennial (10.1%) 75 Min
0.27oz Warrior (15.8%) 75 Min
0.27oz Ahtanum (5%) @ 45 Min
0.32oz Centennial (10.1%) @ 45 Min
0.27oz Chinook (12.7%) @ 45 Min
0.95oz Ahtanum (5%) @ 0 Min
1.27oz Centennial (10.1%) @ 0 Min
1.27oz Chinook (12.7%) @ 0 Min

I'm not sure what temperature you'll want to mash at, that recipe has 152.6F, I'm sure 152-154F would be sufficient. I'll leave the temp/yeast to you, any neutral yeast will do, WLP001 has been suggested in that recipe which you can't really go wrong with.

If you've tried the real deal you'll probably be aware that an FG of 1.016 is too high so you might want to make some changes to bring it down; either drop the mash temp or cut back on your malt so you don't end up with a 7%er (Jaipur is 5.9%)

Also, feel free to simplify / round the hop amounts and make adjustments to the hops to bring out what you can taste. If someone has experience of using the aroma hops in differing quantities maybe they can chime in... to me, the aroma hop quantities look a bit excessive for a 5.9% IPA?

 

[meadowstream]

Thanks ChillWill!

 

[Nugent]

Cheers again, ChillWill.

Thanks for the advice. It's great when pro brewers are willing to guide homebrewers with recipes and techniques. There are a number of brewers on this side of the pond that have done the same. I've found that it has meant more beer sales (from me at least) when I try to mimick their beers. Quality assurance purposes, of course.

As for water, Vancouver has nearly pure water, mineral-wise, with a fairly high pH (>6). Very similar to Portland, Oregon's water. Some adjustments would probably be necessary to get closer.

Thanks for you help and keep making such amazing ales. Will look for other Thornbridge beers over here.

 

[ChillWill]

Just out of interest how much does a bottle of Jaipur retail at over there (1 pint 0.9 fluid oz right?)

 

[Nugent]

Yep, that's the volume.

I paid $6.85 CDN, which is about 4 pounds 30. Mind you, that's from a private liquor store who has to buy it from the government distributor and adds a mark up. My guess is that if it was sold at the government shops, it would be more like $5.50+ instead. A pint of craft ale in a pub here is that much at least.

I saw the St. Petersburg RIS at another shop, but it was the last bottle and was in someone's hand at the till.

Cheers.

 

[ChillWill]

As for water, Vancouver has nearly pure water, mineral-wise, with a fairly high pH (>6). Very similar to Portland, Oregon's water. Some adjustments would probably be necessary to get closer.

Sounds like your water is ok to me so I wouldn't worry about it unless you're fairly confident on the subject. In Bakewell where the brewery is, the water is also very soft and minerals deficient with a pH pretty close to 7 (probably some of the softest water in the country). Some Gypsum might help if you're particularly low on sulphates to make the biterness more refined and accentuate the hop flavour, but unless you have a water report I wouldn't advise adding anything.

And no worries on the advice! I actually only got into craft beer thanks to a year long internship in a craft beer bar in Rochester, NY in 2008, which then lead to learning how to homebrew mostly off this site about 14 months ago, which then prompted me to get in touch with a few breweries for work experience etc until I scored a job at Thornbridge last year. So I'm just paying back the community

Edit: St Petersberg is pretty popular but I'm not a fan of it. It has peat smoked malt in it which I don't find appealing in a RIS (one of my favourite styles), maybe a bit odd as I love Islay single malt scotch which is very heavy on the peaty/smokey flavours.

 

[Nugent]

Sounds good. Thanks a lot.

Have been planning on putting something together in the next few weeks, and will chime back with my process and results. Happily, I have the real thing to compare to.

 

[meadowstream]

ChillWill, is WLP001 the right yeast to use? Thanks!

I think Jaipur is very expensive here in US. I bought some (got local craft store to start carrying) and it was steep... But sold out immediately. I can get you retail price in a few days time!

 

[ChillWill]

Wlp001 will be fine, or US05 for dried or wyeast 1056. You could even use Nottingham or the san Diego super yeast.

It's fairly pricey here, but then all beer is in the UK, I can't believe how cheap you can get a lot of craft beers over there. I was pretty disappointed by the price and lack of choice when I moved back from that side of the pond. The first thing I actually tried that was anywhere near an American IPA was Jaipur a couple of months after being back, now a few year later I making it!

 

[Nugent]

It's the same in Canada with the price of booze.

Beer is very expensive as alcohol is very heavily taxed to help pay for all of our social programs. A six pack of the same craft beer is at least 40% more expensive at government shops than in the United States. At private beer shops in Vancouver, it's 60% more!

Here's a good example of taxation between the three countries: I went to the Macallan Distillery in Scotland in 2009. A bottle of Cask Strength was 51 pounds (~$82 USD) at the distillery. Meant to buy one, but opted to try and get one at Heathrow instead. They didn't have it; pi$$ed off. Anyway, looked in Vancouver - $120.00 CND! In Point Roberts, Washington - which is a small community directly south of Vancouver - $60.00 USD. So ... it's cheaper thousands of kilometers away than it is at the distillery. Wow.

Not going to complain too much. My wife just went through a medical procedure during which the drugs alone would have cost ten grand in the US without insurance. No extra cost besides higher taxes here.

 

[Nugent]

Just finished an afternoon brew of the Jaipur-esqe recipe put together with a lot of very kind help from ChillWill. Below is the recipe and my procedure:

12.00 lb Pale Malt, Gambrinus ESB (3.5 SRM) 88.9 %
1.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) 11.1 %

0.45 oz Magnum [20.50 %] - Boil 75.0 min (29.9 IBUs)
0.10 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min (0.8 IBUs)
0.10 oz Centennial [11.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min (1.8 IBUs)
0.10 oz Chinook [15.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min (2.4 IBUs)
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min (0.9 IBUs)
0.15 oz Centennial [11.30 %] - Boil 10.0 min (2.0 IBUs)
0.15 oz Chinook [15.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min (2.6 IBUs)
0.25 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min (0.8 IBUs)
0.25 oz Centennial [11.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min (1.8 IBUs)
0.25 oz Chinook [15.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min (2.4 IBUs)
0.50 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min
0.50 oz Centennial [11.30 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min
0.50 oz Chinook [15.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop

0.30 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.30 oz Centennial [11.30 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.30 oz Chinook [15.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days

1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [1000ml starter]

As per Will's advice, I mashed in at 66c for 45 mins and then stepped up to about 72c for another 45 mins. This did boost my efficiency about 5%, so my original gravity was at 1.059, rather than the recommended 1.056. I've put it in my fermentation fridge at about 16c and will let the temperature rise naturally to room temp (about 20c) after about 48hrs of fermentation to let the yeast clean things up more easily. If it ferments like I hope it does, it should be around 6% abv - nearly that of Jaipur.

Anyway, cheers for all of the help. I'll chime back in once I've racked in into the keg and give you a review.

Cheers.

 

[ChillWill]

Looks like it went well. Keep us updated on gravity readings etc.

 

[Nugent]

Two days in and the fermentation has gone crazy. Must be the fermentability of the wort, even though it's fermenting steadily at 16C - no high temp spikes or anything.

Thankfully I used a blow-off tube. I've learned too often that when in doubt, use one.

 

[ChillWill]

How's it going Nugent? Taken any gravity readings yet? I don't usually bother for a week or so after brewing but obviously at the brewery we measure the beers twice a day. Usually it takes less than 3 days to hit FG, then a couple of days cleaning up time followed by putting on chill to 10degC for 48hours before we start dropping the yeast out the bottom of the conicals (or pitching it into other brews).

Are you going to secondary for dry hopping and are you using pellets or cones?

*Shameless plug alert* We just picked up a bronze medal for Raven Black IPA (Cascadian dark ale or whatever it's called) at the World Beer Cup

Category 93: American-Style Black Ale, 49 Entries
Gold: Black Racer, Bear Republic Brewing Co., Cloverdale, CA
Silver: Tarantulas 2.0, Pizza Port Ocean Beach, San Diego, CA
Bronze: Raven, Thornbridge, Bakewell, United Kingdom

 

[Nugent]

Congrats to all of you at Thornbridge! Certainly well earned, as you make amazing beers. I have family in London, so a trip to the UK to try them from the source is both likely and not enormously far off.

As for the attempt, the fermentation absolutely went off. Thankfully, the inside of my fermentation fridge is so low, height-wise, that I need a blow-off tube regardless because the krausen was impressive. I left it at 16c for four days, as the fermentation was still going like mad. When it slowed down, I raised the temp to 19c by turning off the fridge - we've had a cool spring and that was as high as I could get it.

Am going to rack it to secondary today and add about 9-10 grams of Ahtanum pellets and the same of whole cone Centennial and Chinook. Will leave it for about a week, then in the keg and on the gas. Should I cold condition it for that week while dryhopping? Normally I just do it at room temp, but now that I have the fermentorium, I can cold crash it. Haven't tasted it yet, but the smell swirling around the fridge is fantatsic.

Anyway, I'll chime in once I've done the racking today.

Cheers.

 

[ChillWill]

19degC should be fine to finish off. After it's been there (and your gravity is nice and stable), I'd drop it to 10-12degC for the dry hopping. At higher temperatures more CO2 will be released from the beer which'll strip away the aromatics at a quicker rate.

When it's done FG wise and had a few days to clear up you can transfer and dry hop it, just don't let the '3 week primary' people on here find out you're doing it.

 

[Nugent]

So, left the Jaipur-esque clone in the fridge at 12c for about a week on an oz. total of equal parts Ahtanum, Centennial and Chinook. Racked it into a cask with some gelatin and a priming sugar solution, and will be leaving it to prime and clear for about three weeks before serving. It's already spoken for at a homebrew and BBQ fest at a fellow homebrewing buddy's place in early June.

As for the taste, delicious! Like Jaipur, it's fruity and citrusy, but with a touch of pineyness to round out the flavour. The hoppiness is really present in the flavour with a clean, 'side-of-the-tongue' bitterness. It does taste a bit fruitier than Jaipur, but still finishes quite dry and clean - no detectable off-flavours. Nothing cloying. The maltiness definitely stands up to the big hoppiness. I can't wait until this has conditioned. I'll definitely be making this one again.

Next report - post cask night.

 

[FarmerTed]

*Shameless plug alert* We just picked up a bronze medal for Raven Black IPA (Cascadian dark ale or whatever it's called) at the World Beer Cup

Category 93: American-Style Black Ale, 49 Entries
Gold: Black Racer, Bear Republic Brewing Co., Cloverdale, CA
Silver: Tarantulas 2.0, Pizza Port Ocean Beach, San Diego, CA
Bronze: Raven, Thornbridge, Bakewell, United Kingdom

All I gotta say is that if Wookie Jack was entered, then your beer must be one hell of a good beer. I never liked black IPA's until I tried Wookie Jack this week.

I just started listening to the BN sunday session with Thornbridge. I'm looking forward to hearing about the brewing techniques there. Thanks for all your help in this thread.

 

[ChillWill]

I just started listening to the BN sunday session with Thornbridge. I'm looking forward to hearing about the brewing techniques there. Thanks for all your help in this thread.

When was the bn thing from?

Sounds like it's coming on nicely, the flavour profile sounds spot on. It should be pretty nice when it's conditioned, it does taste a bit odd when it's green, as does most beer.

 

[Nugent]

Haven't listened to it yet.

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/496

 

[FarmerTed]

Yup, that's the one. It'll be funny if they give out the recipe for the ipa on it.

 

[ChillWill]

Ha, it would although I doubt they'd/we'd give out the recipe to a beer that makes up nearly a third of our production.

Then again, a lot of the beer's err... strengths comes from our processes and technology. I was actually sipping on some earlier today from a tank that will be bottled this week (as it ran through the DO and CO2 meters)... delicious.

 

[Nugent]

It is delicious. About that, there is no doubt!

 

[meadowstream]

Nugent, have you tried you Jaipur since it finished? How is it? H

 

[Nugent]

As a matter of fact, I will be drinking it on Saturday.

I put it in my cask and it's been conditioning for a few weeks. I primed it with a mild dextrose solution and some gelatine to try to clear it up. Just put it in my fermentation fridge at about 10C for a few days to get it to serving temperature. When I tried it out of the secondary, it was delicious. A touch fruitier and stronger booze-wise than Jaipur, but the same lovely hoppiness and nice malty backbone as the real thing. I will certainly give some feedback after Saturday, including a pic.

I'm really stoked. The head brewer at Russell Brewing, who like Thornbridge had some winning beers at the World Cup of Beer, will be there and I'll get an assessment. He knows Jaipur well and counts Thornbridge among his favourite breweries.

 

[ChillWill]

Well it's Sunday and no news yet... that means it either went really well..... or really badly.

 

[Nugent]

It went very well! It was delicious and was well received by everyone at the event.

It was still a touch fruitier than bottled Jaipur, but the hop flavour was pretty much spot on - a great mix of citrus and pine. The bittering was very smooth and may people commented that they really liked the balance between the smooth bittering, the maltiness and the cask conditioning.

It was a bit of a different animal than the bottle-conditioned Jaipur because of the cask conditioning; obviously less fizzy and less 'refreshing' because of the lighter carbonation. Thinking that perhaps the fruitiness coming more forward might be due to the cask-conditioning that doesn't have as much of a carbonic nature that bottle-conditioning gives it.

Next time, I would try to hit my OG more precisely to bring the ABV down; this batch was up at about 6.3% and I would have prefered it to be a bit lighter. Beyond that, the simple grist bill and hopping profile/schedule made for an excellent IPA. Needless to say, the cask was empty when I left.

Thanks again, ChillWill, for all of your help and advice on this. The saccrification step-mashing technique and gradual hopping schedule for late hops have become part of my brewing technique for pale ales and IPAs as a result. When you're at work tomorrow, thank the lads and lasses at Thornbridge for making such great products.

 

[ChillWill]

No problems buddy!

Cask Jaipur is generally more fruity than bottled, which tends to be more citrusy due to the dry hops we use (and serving temp difference).

Primarily I'm glad I've managed to help you improve your brewing process or steered you to some new techniques, it's much more important that I do that than simply say "follow this recipe" as that'll only get you 10% toward where you need to be... there's hardly anything crazy or unique about the recipes we do at the brewery, but the way in which we execute them is where we pick up the awards.

I'm about to get a lot busier anyway... 5 new 100hl tanks arrived last week (we could fit 10 brews into them!). Although as kegs and bottles are picking up in the UK they'll probably be used more for maturation than anything (we brew 6 or 7 times a week at the moment and that'll probably go up to 10 in due course).

 

[weiht]

The kipling recipe on jim's is also very nice.. Seems to be contributed by a brewer there. Definitely gonna brew this but probably with a wlp007

 

[weiht]

Hey Will, can you comment or help me out here?

My guess probably chinook as a 60 mins addition probably to the tune of 30-35 ibu, then a 30 mins addition of centennial and cascades, maybe another addition of centennial and cascades at either 10 or 15mins, and a big flame out/hopback addition.

I would say ibu of mid 50s-60s? So about 30ibus from a 60mins addition, then another 25-30ibus addition from a centennial/cascade blend at 30mins, or equal amount of that centennial/cascades blend to make up 25-30 ibus at both 30 and 15or10 mins (Need to play around with ur spreadsheets for this to get to the equal amount at 30 n 10/15mins), then at least double (My guess is about 3grams/litre) that amount of centennial/cascade blend with some chinook as well at flame out.

I think the malt are pretty spot on except munich in place of vienna and maybe some flaked or torrified wheat since its english?

4.80 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 83.48 %
0.35 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6.09 %
0.35 kg Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 6.09 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 % *Optional
23.00 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 30.8 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (30 min) Hops 8.7 IBU
20.00 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (30 min) Hops 15.8 IBU
35.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (30 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
17.00 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (30 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
35.00 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (30 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -

I'm probably talking nonsense anyway lol