This Might Be a Terrible Idea

[Mainer]

... but last fall, a friend gave me 5 pounds of concord grapes. I knew I wanted to put them into a beer, but I couldn't decide whether I wanted to put them in something with a fairly robust malt bill like a bier de garde where the malt would balance the acidity and tannins, or choose something super-light to let the grapes shine.

Ultimately, I decided to take the latter path. I'm going to brew a helles lager (8 lb American 2-row and 8 oz carapils with a total of 2 oz Mt. Hood) on Monday, then completely throw it out of whack by adding crushed concord grapes in late-boil. If you think this sounds crazy and I need to be talked off the ledge, speak now or forever hold your peace.

:rockin:

 

[biochemedic]

Sounds like a mess in your kettle...

 

[TallDan]

Why boil grapes?

 

[day_trippr]

To make grape flavored beer jelly?

 

[Mainer]

I was going to add them at flameout, but i read a brookyln beer recipe that called for 5-minute boil. Bad idea? Am I going to get pectins? I still have some pectic enzyme from a cider last fall...

 

[toejam]

Freeze first then add to secondary

 

[shortyz]

5 pounds of concord is gonna make a pretty high alc beer. I would de pectinize the grapes and add them at flameout to minimizer infection. Freezing doesnt garentee no bugs got in.

 

[Mainer]

I froze them when I got them, for preservation and to burst the cell walls.
I figured my two options were to add them at flameout or soak them in port and add to secondary.

Or I could crush them and add the juice at flameout, then add some of the must back in during secondary.

 

[Calder]

I wouldn't boil them. I would crush them, and add a crushed tablet of matablsulfite for 24 hours, and then add as fermentation slows. 5 lbs in 5 gallons is not too much.

 

[mrdauber64]

Add them to the secondary. 24 hours before you are going to add them crush them, add one crushed camden tablet and a little pectin enzyme. This will kill any wild yeast(camden) and break the fruit down more and help the finished beer clear(pectin enzyme). I just did something similar with 6 lbs of wild plums in a Belgian Dubbel.

Boiling them will just drive off any aromas and set in the pectin to make for a hazy beer.

 

[superbrew53]

Come on Mainer. I think you have a decent lager going there. Brew it up and put the grapes in another pot and cook them up for jam. Sorry, I just couldn't let it go.

 

[Brownalemikie]

Hmmm, maybe it's just me, but have you thought about making some wine?

 

[oceanic_brew]

Can't make much wine with 5#'s of grapes

 

[oceanic_brew]

I think it's a great idea to try this but I would do it in secondary like the others suggest.

 

[Lumbee]

I 2nd putting the grapes in the secondary

I have been doing a muscadine beer for a while. Here is my recipe and process.

 

[dlutter]

Here's another vote to put them in secondary and to use pectic enzyme. I'm not convinced that you have to use K-meta if you have frozen them.

I've made a lot of blackberry beers and meads from frozen wild blackberries going into secondary and have not had infection problems. Probably doesn't hurt. I have had cloudy beer issues, though, without using pectic enzyme.

 

[microbusbrewery]

If you do use it, I'd add it to secondary. FWIW, I did a dark Saison a couple years ago. It definitely was not my favorite brew that I've ever done.

For mine, I used 96oz of Welch's Farmers Pick Concord Juice in a 5 gallon batch. IMO it was way too much. For those that didn't know what I did, they thought it was definitely fruity, but they couldn't quite place the fruit. As soon as I told them everyone was like "oh yeah, definitely concord grapes!". To me it as the most dominant character in the beer and I didn't care for it. Others liked it or at least didn't hate it...in fact, I entered it in a club comp and it scored well by everyone but me

In a Helles, I can't imagine it doing anything but dominating. Hopefully you like that character more than I did.

Here is the base recipe I used if anyone is interested:

7.0# Dingmans Pilsner Malt
1.0# Simpsons Golden Naked Oats
6.0 oz Castle De-bittered Malt
4.0 oz Crystal 10
1.0# D-180 Belgian Candi Syrup (0 min)
35g US Goldings (60 Min)
14g Nelson Sauvin (10 min)
2.5g chamomile (5 min)
14g Nelson Sauvin (Whirlpool)
Wyeast 3726-PC Farmhouse Ale

 

[Mainer]

I ended up adding them in primary, without sanitizing. I wanted to see what kind of a wild profile I'd get off the wild yeast and bugs. Fermenting at such a low temp, I'd expect any bacterial sourness or funk to be restrained. And if it's a dumper, it's a dumper. It was only about $35 worth of 2-row and hops anyway.

 

[Mainer]

If you do use it, I'd add it to secondary. FWIW, I did a dark Saison a couple years ago. It definitely was not my favorite brew that I've ever done.

For mine, I used 96oz of Welch's Farmers Pick Concord Juice in a 5 gallon batch. IMO it was way too much. For those that didn't know what I did, they thought it was definitely fruity, but they couldn't quite place the fruit. As soon as I told them everyone was like "oh yeah, definitely concord grapes!". To me it as the most dominant character in the beer and I didn't care for it. Others liked it or at least didn't hate it...in fact, I entered it in a club comp and it scored well by everyone but me

In a Helles, I can't imagine it doing anything but dominating. Hopefully you like that character more than I did.

Here is the base recipe I used if anyone is interested:

7.0# Dingmans Pilsner Malt
1.0# Simpsons Golden Naked Oats
6.0 oz Castle De-bittered Malt
4.0 oz Crystal 10
1.0# D-180 Belgian Candi Syrup (0 min)
35g US Goldings (60 Min)
14g Nelson Sauvin (10 min)
2.5g chamomile (5 min)
14g Nelson Sauvin (Whirlpool)
Wyeast 3726-PC Farmhouse Ale

96 oz is a lot. That's .75 gallon. A quick internet search suggests you'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of 15# of grapes to make that much juice. I used 5#.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

The Brooklyn Brew Shop Recipe that I have ("Grapes and Grains") says to add them at knock-out:

At the 60-minute mark, turn off the heat and add the grapes. Steep for 20 minutes. Prepare an ice bath...etc & c....

Except for the 20-minute steep, I use essentially the same procedure when adding various fruits to my ales, and have never had any issues. I also get plenty of the fruit's flavor, although I tend to add 1.5x to 2x the amount called for in the recipe.

Hope this helps....

Ron

 

[microbusbrewery]

96 oz is a lot. That's .75 gallon. A quick internet search suggests you'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of 15# of grapes to make that much juice. I used 5#.

Yeah, it was way too much. Very jammy, at least that's what I got out of it. I went with that based on a Wisconsin Belgian Red recipe I did a while before this one. The WBR had 1 gallon of Trader Joe's Cherry Juice in it so I figured .75 might work with concord juice...not so much. That WBR earned me my first gold medal for fruit beers. I noted if I ever did the Saison with grape juice again, I'd probably cut it in half.

 

[Mainer]

The Brooklyn Brew Shop Recipe that I have ("Grapes and Grains") says to add them at knock-out:



Except for the 20-minute steep, I use essentially the same procedure when adding various fruits to my ales, and have never had any issues. I also get plenty of the fruit's flavor, although I tend to add 1.5x to 2x the amount called for in the recipe.

Hope this helps....

Ron

Yeah, I have that book, too. It's the basis on which I was planning the flameout addition, but I ended up pitching them in the fermenter instead. People raise a good point that Concord are particularly high in pectin, so the heated addition scared me off.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Sooner or later, I will have to make a batch of that recipe, just to see how it ends up!

 

[jonnyp123]

I have been working with Wine grapes and beer for the last year and have found that adding the grapes in (crushed and campden-ized) at high krausen works best. Secondary is tough due to the high sugar content, and boiling just loses all the delicate fruity aspects of the grapes (might as well just add sugar). I add the skins for Red grapes to add the tannins and color - just take that into account with your malt bill and hops. I usually add a bit more dextrine type malts for some residual sugar to help balance that out.

 

[Mainer]

I think I may well have ruined this beer during racking. I was siphoning into the secondary fermenter, and walked away for a bit. When I came back I realized the siphon head had gotten clogged with grape skins, and was sucking oxygen into the tubing. So I thoroughly oxygenated probably a third of the volume of the beer before correcting it. I know this isn't good, but how bad is this likely to be?

 

[glugglug]

I wouldn't worry. I'll bet it's fine, and there's only one way to tell...

 

[Lumbee]

I agree with glugg. Assuming you got it into the secondary and get an air lock on it, it'll be fine.

 

[Mainer]

I agree with glugg. Assuming you got it into the secondary and get an air lock on it, it'll be fine.

Nice. Yeah, it's in secondary now. It's growing a slight pellicle, but that's by design.

 

[Mainer]

Update: it's finished, and it's... not horrible. Somewhat overly grainy, with an unfamiliar bitterness from the grapes, and the fruit is evident, but only at the very end. I'm not a fan, but the missus likes it.