Thinking of BIAB brewing

[Morrey]

I've been brewing mostly BIAB for 4 years now. I'm interested in water chemistry but my filtered tap water is pretty good so I have been making great beer without it. I think getting involved with a local homebrew club helped a LOT. They let me know that our water is good for just about anything, but I might need a couple additions if I really want my IPA's to pop. I guess I cheated and made a Black IPA about 3 years ago. I still get asked by the guys at the club when I am going to make that again...

You'd be your own best critic if you brewed a beer with unadjusted water, then the same beer with adjusted water. Adjustments including SO4/CL ratios and balances that really make your hop profiles come alive in IPA's that you mentioned. "Pop" is a good word

 

[marjen]

I am ready to go

 

[marjen]

Just ordered my ingredients for my first BIAB batch!

 

[casualbrewer]

Looking good! Little tip I like to do is mash in the grains 5-10 degrees cooler than you are shooting for and let it rise up to desired temps. That way you never miss your mash temps. If doing a sparge I recommend a dunk sparge in a few gallons to help with efficiency. Easy ways to keep it simple.

 

[RM-MN]

]Looking good! Little tip I like to do is mash in the grains 5-10 degrees cooler than you are shooting for and let it rise up to desired temps. That way you never miss your mash temps.[/COLOR] If doing a sparge I recommend a dunk sparge in a few gallons to help with efficiency. Easy ways to keep it simple.

If your grains are milled reasonably fine you will always miss your mash temps this way. As soon as the mash reaches the lowest temp for conversion it will start and by the time you get your mash up to the temp you want for the expected attenuation of the wort, you will have most of the starches converted at the lower temp.

Always start with a calculated strike temp. With care with the calculations, the correct water amount and the grain weight and temperature you will hit your mash temp within one or 2 degrees. If your grains are milled reasonably fine the conversion will be done before the temperature drops enough to notice.

 

[mj1angier]

Water is important. IF you have the abilities to taste it. I know what taste good or bad to me. Not what makes it good, lol

So I started BIAB and used bottle spring water. That cuts out a few things like chlorine. The BIAB went good and I saw a few things I need to address. None of which water had anything to do with. So I will plan to fix this before the water comes into play.

BIAB went scary easy for me. I worry that it was too easy, lol. I want to run 2-3 of same beer then mess with water. If I am changing 2-3 things each time I will never know what made what taste different!

This was my first BIAB https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=621545

 

[RM-MN]

Water is important. IF you have the abilities to taste it. I know what taste good or bad to me. Not what makes it good, lol

So I started BIAB and used bottle spring water. That cuts out a few things like chlorine. The BIAB went good and I saw a few things I need to address. None of which water had anything to do with. So I will plan to fix this before the water comes into play.

BIAB went scary easy for me. I worry that it was too easy, lol. I want to run 2-3 of same beer then mess with water. If I am changing 2-3 things each time I will never know what made what taste different!

This was my first BIAB https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=621545

That's because BIAB is scary easy. Heat water, stir in grains, wait, pull bag of grains out to drain. It can't get much easier. Some people go to great lengths to complicate it but it isn't necessary.

 

[Morrey]

I want to run 2-3 of same beer then mess with water. If I am changing 2-3 things each time I will never know what made what taste different!

Well thought out indeed.

 

[Morrey]

That's because BIAB is scary easy. Heat water, stir in grains, wait, pull bag of grains out to drain. It can't get much easier. Some people go to great lengths to complicate it but it isn't necessary.

BIAB is so easy sometimes we get bored and look for way to "complicate" the process. Do I need to add a pump and recirculate the mash? Do I need a whirlpool arm so I can vortex a hop stand or trub cone.....speed-up chilling? I thought about all this and "more stuff" seems to overly complicate the simplicity of BIAB which is what attracted me to this process to begin.

 

[marjen]

So just trying to nail down this process, weather depending might brew a batch this coming weekend if all my supplies arrive.

1. So I add all the water, looks like about 7.1 gallons to the kettle, get up to strike temp and pour in all malts and specialty grains.
2. Keep temp around 150-155 degrees for 60 mins.
3. pull out bag, let it drain.
4. Fire up to full boil and proceed as normal.

Is that all there is to it?

 

[Morrey]

We can make it complicated by introducing hundreds of ideas like "I do it this way", but the way you are approaching BIAB is basically the process in a nutshell. Yeppers, you are good to go.

I keep my kettle warm during mashing by wrapping it in a heavy mover's blanket.

 

[Sbe2]

So just trying to nail down this process, weather depending might brew a batch this coming weekend if all my supplies arrive.

1. So I add all the water, looks like about 7.1 gallons to the kettle, get up to strike temp and pour in all malts and specialty grains.
2. Keep temp around 150-155 degrees for 60 mins.
3. pull out bag, let it drain.
4. Fire up to full boil and proceed as normal.

Is that all there is to it?

Yupp, maybe get the the water to strike temp before putting in the bag. That way you avoid scorching the bottom of the bag.

Other than that, welcome to BIAB!

 

[mongoose33]

We can make it complicated by introducing hundreds of ideas like "I do it this way", but the way you are approaching BIAB is basically the process in a nutshell. Yeppers, you are good to go.

I keep my kettle warm during mashing by wrapping it in a heavy mover's blanket.

Here's me doing BIAB a couple weeks ago; the burner is OFF, and residual heat from the burner kept me in a good place w/r/t temperature:

 

[Morrey]

Here's me doing BIAB a couple weeks ago; the burner is OFF, and residual heat from the burner kept me in a good place w/r/t temperature:

View attachment 394252

Does your SWMBO know you have grandma's handmade quilt out in your brewcave wrapping kettles? LOL...J/K.

Is that beer in the keg yet?

 

[mongoose33]

Does your SWMBO know you have grandma's handmade quilt out in your brewcave wrapping kettles? LOL...J/K.

Is that beer in the keg yet?

Heh heh.....

I don't know where I found that quilt. It occupied a space under my workbench for years as a paint drop-cloth, as it isn't quite as good as it looks in that picture. I used it for insulating my mash tun cooler when i did a more traditional mash (i.e., not in a bag).

One day it dawned on me: that quilt could give its life that I might brew in a bag, and thus it was so!

**************

Yesterday was 15 days in the fermenter; I changed the Inkbird temp to 32 degrees last night to cold crash it. Tonite I'll add finings, and maybe Wednesday I'll keg it. Anxious to see how it turns out but there's nothing that would indicate any difficulty. Fermented out just as if I'd done it using the normal mash tun approach, looks the same....

If I keg it Wednesday, I'll force carb it and Thursday will tell the tale.

 

[Morrey]

My bro-in-law asked me this weekend if anyone could readily tell a BIAB beer from a multi vessel beer of the same recipe. I told him I would be surprised there was enough difference to speak of. If the beer you are just finishing in BIAB is one you have made MLT, you would be a good source to speak of differences.

 

[marjen]

OH and is the cover left on during the first part? What about flame? Lower? or turn on only as needed?

 

[Morrey]

OH and is the cover left on during the first part? What about flame? Lower? or turn on only as needed?

Mongoose33 and I both have Blichmann burners on leg extensions. I mention this since these burners are beefy and hold lots of residual heat which helps keep mash temps stable. Your setup may be different so you'll only know once you try it this weekend.

I heat my strike water to a tad over what I want to mash at since the addition of grains lowers temps some. If I wanted to mash at 150F, I would heat to 154F, cut flame off, put my bag in place, add my grain, stir well, cover with kettle lid and wrap with blanket. I will unwrap and stir about halfway thru, then cover and re-wrap. I have never had my temps drop more than 2 degrees, so I never apply more heat. If you see drops of more than 5 degrees, you may want to apply gentle heat. But even in the winter in my outdoor shed, I never see the need to apply more heat. But again, YMMV.

 

[mongoose33]

My bro-in-law asked me this weekend if anyone could readily tell a BIAB beer from a multi vessel beer of the same recipe. I told him I would be surprised there was enough difference to speak of. If the beer you are just finishing in BIAB is one you have made MLT, you would be a good source to speak of differences.

I believe I have a couple bottles from the previous batch (same recipe), mashed in a mash tun. I'll do a comparison.

 

[casualbrewer]

If your grains are milled reasonably fine you will always miss your mash temps this way. As soon as the mash reaches the lowest temp for conversion it will start and by the time you get your mash up to the temp you want for the expected attenuation of the wort, you will have most of the starches converted at the lower temp.

Always start with a calculated strike temp. With care with the calculations, the correct water amount and the grain weight and temperature you will hit your mash temp within one or 2 degrees. If your grains are milled reasonably fine the conversion will be done before the temperature drops enough to notice.

It literally only takes a couple minutes to reach desired temp if you mash in 5 degrees or so below target temp especially if doing full volume as the temp hardly drops at all. All the starches are not going to convert in a few minutes. You can even mash in at your desired temp and it will only fall a couple degrees... With a burner running it will take 2 minutes to come right back. I will personally will mash in around 120 degrees and ramp up my mash temps from there to my desired temps. This does create a more fermentable but I would say only half the starches convert until I get up to my mash temps. Just trying to give the guy a fool proof method for not missing your intended mash temps. Dealing with strike water temps and guessing where it will fall to isn't as reliable.

 

[doug293cz]

It literally only takes a couple minutes to reach desired temp if you mash in 5 degrees or so below target temp especially if doing full volume as the temp hardly drops at all. All the starches are not going to convert in a few minutes. You can even mash in at your desired temp and it will only fall a couple degrees... With a burner running it will take 2 minutes to come right back. I will personally will mash in around 120 degrees and ramp up my mash temps from there to my desired temps. This does create a more fermentable but I would say only half the starches convert until I get up to my mash temps. Just trying to give the guy a fool proof method for not missing your intended mash temps. Dealing with strike water temps and guessing where it will fall to isn't as reliable.

I have found the opposite to be true. Whenever I've tried to warm up a mash with a burner, I overshot the mash temp. I'm sure it's possible with practice to get your timing down so that doesn't happen, but it does have a learning curve.

On the other hand, there are lots of calculators that given your strike water volume, kettle weight, grain bill weight, and grain temp will give you an accurate target temp for your strike water. My favorite is: https://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/#Advanced. I've never been off more than a degree or two with this method.

Brew on

 

[casualbrewer]

To the OP... This is why you take our opinions with a grain of salt. Your personal experience will show you what's best for you. Always another way to skin a cat. I think you will love the step up into all grain.

 

[Morrey]

I have found this to be true as well, Doug. Seems the temps don't want to rise, then boom, you overshot in an instant. Maybe the grains are providing some sort of insulating medium even when being stirred. End result I have overshot temps more often than not when applying heat with a burner during a mash cycle.

With BIAB and a well wrapped kettle, I typically don't see much need to apply heat.

 

[mongoose33]

I have found this to be true as well, Doug. Seems the temps don't want to rise, then boom, you overshot in an instant. Maybe the grains are providing some sort of insulating medium even when being stirred. End result I have overshot temps more often than not when applying heat with a burner during a mash cycle.

With BIAB and a well wrapped kettle, I typically don't see much need to apply heat.

I've learned with my Spike kettle that whatever the temp is when I shut off the gas, I can expect the temp to rise 3 more degrees just from the retained heat in the tri-clad bottom.

If I go just on the temp, I'll overshoot.

With my cooler-based mash tun, after I heated it with a gallon of boiling water, I'd add 4 gallons of water heated to 168 degrees. If I had, say, 12 pounds of grist that would bring the temp down to about 153 degrees. But I learned that if I kept the grist in the garage overnight where it would drop to 50 degrees, versus keeping in the house where it was 70 degrees....well, I'd get more of a temperature drop.

But you can't use that temp w/ BIAB, not if you start with 7.5 gallons such as I did. 7.5 gallons of water at 168 degrees will not be brought down as far by 12 pounds of grist as will only 4 gallons of 168-degree water.

So when I did my strike water temp I used not 168, but 160. Still, it ended up a little warmer than I wanted by a degree or two, so next time if I use the same grain bill and amount of water, I'll probably drop the strike water to 158 degrees.

Morrie gave me some guesstimates to start and they were pretty close. But there's no expectation they'd be perfect because everybody has different systems, the grain bills are different, the temperature of the grain is different.

 

[doug293cz]

...

With my cooler-based mash tun, after I heated it with a gallon of boiling water, I'd add 4 gallons of water heated to 168 degrees. If I had, say, 12 pounds of grist that would bring the temp down to about 153 degrees. But I learned that if I kept the grist in the garage overnight where it would drop to 50 degrees, versus keeping in the house where it was 70 degrees....well, I'd get more of a temperature drop.

But you can't use that temp w/ BIAB, not if you start with 7.5 gallons such as I did. 7.5 gallons of water at 168 degrees will not be brought down as far by 12 pounds of grist as will only 4 gallons of 168-degree water.

So when I did my strike water temp I used not 168, but 160. Still, it ended up a little warmer than I wanted by a degree or two, so next time if I use the same grain bill and amount of water, I'll probably drop the strike water to 158 degrees.

Morrie gave me some guesstimates to start and they were pretty close. But there's no expectation they'd be perfect because everybody has different systems, the grain bills are different, the temperature of the grain is different.

This is why a proper strike water temp calculator needs to take into account the following variables in order to do accurate calculations:

• Mash Temp Target
• Grain Weight
• Grain Temp
• Mash Vessel Weight
• Mash Vessel Heat Capacity (specific heat * weight)
• Mash Vessel Temp

The calculation is just a weighted average of the vessel, water, and grain heat capacities and temperatures.

Grain specific heat is pretty much a constant, so all the calculator needs is the weight to figure out the grain heat capacity. Likewise with the mash vessel, the specific heat is constant based on vessel material, so calculator just needs to be told the weight. For BIAB the mash vessel temp is that same as the strike temp, so vessel temp does not need to be explicitly input. Some calculators will swag the vessel weight based on water volume, and the resulting error is usually insignificant because the specific heat of most vessel materials is on the order of 20% of the specific heat of water, and the water weighs significantly more than the vessel (for reasonable system configurations.)

If you don't take all of the factors into account, or don't have reasonably accurate values for the variables, you won't get an accurate prediction of the correct strike temp, and the mash temp will thus be off. Like any calculator, it's GIGO.

Brew on

 

[marjen]

So this is the All grain version of the recipe I am making. Does it need to be adjusted for BIAB or am I good to roll?

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: GFFPA BIAB

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.058
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.069
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 6.86%
IBU (tinseth): 46.84
SRM (morey): 4.78

FERMENTABLES:
10 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (80%)
1.5 lb - American - White Wheat (12%)
12 oz - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (6%)
4 oz - United Kingdom - Crystal 15L (2%)

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 12.39
0.75 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 13.48
2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 20.97
4 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
4 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 7 gal

YEAST:
Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 64 - 74 F
Fermentation Temp: 70 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

 

[doug293cz]

So this is the All grain version of the recipe I am making. Does it need to be adjusted for BIAB or am I good to roll?

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: GFFPA BIAB

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.058
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.069
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 6.86%
IBU (tinseth): 46.84
SRM (morey): 4.78

FERMENTABLES:
10 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (80%)
1.5 lb - American - White Wheat (12%)
12 oz - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (6%)
4 oz - United Kingdom - Crystal 15L (2%)

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 12.39
0.75 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 13.48
2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 20.97
4 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
4 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 7 gal

YEAST:
Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 64 - 74 F
Fermentation Temp: 70 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

BIAB is all grain brewing, why would you need to adjust what is already an all grain recipe for an all grain process?

I'll answer my own question. The only reason to adjust an all grain recipe for whatever all grain system you plan to use is if you know your system has a different efficiency than the recipe assumes. Your recipe states that it assumes 75% efficiency, and BIAB is perfectly capable of 75% efficiency.

Brew on

 

[marjen]

Well since it will be my first time, I have no clue on efficiency. Also I ordered my grains and requested them milled, I dont have a way to do it any finer once they arrive, so I am at the mercy of how they are sent to me. Not sure if that will be an issue or not.

 

[Morrey]

Well since it will be my first time, I have no clue on efficiency. Also I ordered my grains and requested them milled, I dont have a way to do it any finer once they arrive, so I am at the mercy of how they are sent to me. Not sure if that will be an issue or not.

Right, and unless you have your own grain mill, you are dependent upon the grind you receive. Most commercial grind is what I'd call medium. Some BIAB brewers who source grains at their LHBS occasionally ask to double mill which helps. In other words, BIAB can utilize a finer crush which in turn often yields you a higher efficiency. But pre-milled grain is certainly not an issue as you mentioned.

After you brew, look at your wort gravity going into fermenter (OG). Record your volume such as 5.5 gallons into fermenter. Then look up Brewer's Friend efficiency calculator where you'll put in these numbers along with your grain bill. Brewhouse Efficiency (in a nutshell) is a measuring stick to see how well you extracted (conversion) the sugars from your grains, or efficiency as its called. This number can be used when you begin designing your own recipes to help you tweak grain amounts being used.

In many instances when brewers miss their OG numbers badly, indications may be that BH efficiency is typically off, or volumes off as well....or both.

**Looking at 89 posts so far, there is a ton of info being thrown your way. Daunting as it may seem, several brews from now you'll be the one posting to someone how to do this properly. Make a mistake or three and you'll be right in the group. Those who don't make mistakes aren't brewing much beer. You'll have fun!!

 

[mj1angier]

Like you I was sweating the jump to all grain and BIAB.

But then my wife was listening to me mumble about it. She pop up and said "So you are making a big pot of beer tea, right?" At first it kind of pissed me off, but then I realized that is just what this is. You have a big bag full of grain instead of tea leaves, but it pretty much the same.

So after that, I just relaxed and thought of it as tea bagging some beer! ( Yes I say that with a stupid grin on my face!)