Thinking of BIAB brewing

[marjen]

So I just got started brewing. Brewed my first extract batch a couple weeks ago and going to do my 2nd batch this weekend. I am thinking of moving to BIAB after that as it does not seem that much more difficult. I have a couple questions.

1. Do I just need a bag like the Wilser? Is that the only additional equipment?
2. Do i follow a regular All grain recipe? Or does it need adjustments?
3. Is a 10 gallon kettle enough to do 5 gallon batches of BIAB.
4. Do I just heat water to 155 or so, add grains to bag, let it sit there for an hour, remove bag, then continue on? Or is there more to it?

Thanks.

 

[casualbrewer]

So I just got started brewing. Brewed my first extract batch a couple weeks ago and going to do my 2nd batch this weekend. I am thinking of moving to BIAB after that as it does not seem that much more difficult. I have a couple questions.

1. Do I just need a bag like the Wilser? Is that the only additional equipment?
2. Do i follow a regular All grain recipe? Or does it need adjustments?
3. Is a 10 gallon kettle enough to do 5 gallon batches of BIAB.
4. Do I just heat water to 155 or so, add grains to bag, let it sit there for an hour, remove bag, then continue on? Or is there more to it?

Thanks.

Imo yes you need a wilserbrewer bag or equivalent. Yes a 10 gallon pot will be ok for most 5g recipes, and yes basically you will heat water to the appropriate temp and mash in your grains. However it is not a set and forget process like extract. It is just a simpler way to do all grain but still requires attention to water, pH, mash temp, and sugar extraction (sparge/no sparge) all of which are basically non existent in extract making.

 

[RM-MN]

1. That's about it. A wire whisk is handy to stir the grains into the water because the dry grains want to form dough balls and the whisk will break those up.
2. BIAB is all grain without all the complications. The only adjustment I would make is finer milling. Since you have a bag to be the filter you can mill much finer which helps speed conversion and increase the efficiency. It isn't a requirement but it is something to consider.
3. I've done 5 gallon batches in a 7 1/2 gallon turkey fryer pot. I wouldn't recommend that but your 10 gallon pot should be great.
4. How hot you heat the water depends on the amount and temperature of the grain. You want the temperature of the mash (water plus grains) to end up between 148 and 160 F. as this is where the enzymes that do the conversion from starch to sugar work. Once the grains have sat in this temperature of water for a length of time you pull the bag out and let it drain back into the pot. If you don't have the amount of wort you want you can boil down excess or pour some water over the bag of grains if you are a bit short. It really is that simple.

 

[marjen]

It is just a simpler way to do all grain but still requires attention to water, pH, mash temp, and sugar extraction (sparge/no sparge) all of which are basically non existent in extract making.

How is all this measured? I understand I would need to keep the temps steady, but dont understand the other parts.

 

[plazola86]

BIAB is the easiest way to do all grain IMO, from the equipment needed to the process itself. Seems like you have everything except the bag. Read some BIAB forums and check youtube to really get a grasp on it first. Make sure you answer all your questions before your brew day and you will be surprised at how easy it really is. Don't worry about PH and water treatment in your first brews just get the process down first.

 

[hezagenius]

Don't worry about PH and water treatment in your first brews just get the process down first.

This. Run through the process of BIAB, see what it takes, what's hard, what you would change. Then introduce new variables like water treatments.

There are a few calculators online that can estimate your strike temp. To give you a rough idea, I usually mash about 12-12.5# of grain in 8.5 gallons of water. My target mash temp is 152. My estimated strike temp is about 159.

If you really want to do water chemistry, it's not hard. You can use Bru'n Water or some online calculator to estimate your additions based on your target profile. If you go that route, start with RO water and just assume you are starting at 0ppm for everything. Figure out your additions and add them all to the mash water as you are heating it up.

 

[marjen]

I have watched a couple videos. One thing I was confused on is one said after mashing to raise temp to like 180? And it said you needed something under the bag in the kettle so it did not burn. That part confused me.

Also is it always 60 mins? Or does some variable change the mash time?

For water I would be using RO.

 

[jdonley]

I've done a bunch of BIAB, and when I first started all my beers had an astringent flavor on the back end of them. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why mash ph? poor fermentation temperature control? So I bought a ph tester, an old fridge, and temperature control unit... the problem still persisted. I noticed a little bit of grain husks in the boil kettle after removing the bag especially during the hot break. So my next brew I rigged up a way to filter all the wort collected back through the grain bag so as to filter out any unwanted sediment or husks that may have made its way into the wort through one way or another. This step took atringent flavor out of my beers. Just my experience

 

[brewprint]

So I just got started brewing. Brewed my first extract batch a couple weeks ago and going to do my 2nd batch this weekend. I am thinking of moving to BIAB after that as it does not seem that much more difficult. I have a couple questions.

1. Do I just need a bag like the Wilser? Is that the only additional equipment?
2. Do i follow a regular All grain recipe? Or does it need adjustments?
3. Is a 10 gallon kettle enough to do 5 gallon batches of BIAB.
4. Do I just heat water to 155 or so, add grains to bag, let it sit there for an hour, remove bag, then continue on? Or is there more to it?

Thanks.

Yep that's basically it.

As someone said I wouldn't worry about checking pH and water chemistry yet.

Basically you use a calculator and tell it how much hops, grain and batch size. That will then tell you the volume of water that you will need.

Tell the calculator the grain temp and it will tell you how hot to get the water before you add the grain. This way it should be at about the mash temp.

I use an insulated jacket to keep the temp for an hour. I check every 15 minutes with a good stir and then give a little heat if necessary. If you reheat make sure to remove the jacket and stir so that you don't melt the bag.

I also use a ladder and a pulley that I got from Wilser to lift the bag. Then I squeeze and have my boil volume.

IMO crush doesn't mean much. I've never seen a difference between a fine crush, double crush or just cracking the grain. The key is stirring and maintaining the mash temp for the best efficiency.

 

[RM-MN]

I have watched a couple videos. One thing I was confused on is one said after mashing to raise temp to like 180? And it said you needed something under the bag in the kettle so it did not burn. That part confused me.

Also is it always 60 mins? Or does some variable change the mash time?

For water I would be using RO.

You can forget about raising the temperature to 180 as that only applies to fly sparging in a conventional mash tun. 60 minutes for a mash is a standard time but it can vary. If you get a poor crush on your grain or are mashing very low temp the conversion will take longer. If you mill your grain very fine, the mash can be cut short but it won't hurt to go the 60 minutes.

Spring water or tap water (use 1/4 Campden tablet if your water has chlorine or chloramine) instead of RO unless you are prepared to adjust with minerals. The mash needs some minerals in the water which RO strips out.

 

[RM-MN]

Yep that's basically it.

As someone said I wouldn't worry about checking pH and water chemistry yet.

Basically you use a calculator and tell it how much hops, grain and batch size. That will then tell you the volume of water that you will need.

Tell the calculator the grain temp and it will tell you how hot to get the water before you add the grain. This way it should be at about the mash temp.

I use an insulated jacket to keep the temp for an hour. I check every 15 minutes with a good stir and then give a little heat if necessary. If you reheat make sure to remove the jacket and stir so that you don't melt the bag.

I also use a ladder and a pulley that I got from Wilser to lift the bag. Then I squeeze and have my boil volume.

IMO crush doesn't mean much. I've never seen a difference between a fine crush, double crush or just cracking the grain. The key is stirring and maintaining the mash temp for the best efficiency.

The quality of the crush is the best indicator of mash efficiency. If the particles of grain are too large they won't get wet to the center so the starch won't gelatinize and thus won't convert to sugars.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Don't be scared off..All grain is easy and BIAB makes it even easier.

This is it in a nutshell:
Buy or mill grains
Put bag in the pot
Heat to 155 ish
Dump grain in bag
Kill the heat
Stir to break up grain balls
Forget about it for 60 minutes
Pull out the bag and let drain in the pot for 15 minutes or so..Throw the grains in the yard or garbage
That's it....
Everything from there is the same as doing extract. Boil..Hops ETC

You might want to buy an all grain kit for your first batch as everything is milled,weighed and ready to go.....Go for it and good luck

 

[mongoose33]

Don't worry about PH and water treatment in your first brews just get the process down first.

This. Run through the process of BIAB, see what it takes, what's hard, what you would change. Then introduce new variables like water treatments.

I have to disagree here. This suggests OP can just throw whatever water is available into his kettle, which may well be a mistake. He might get lucky, but that's not the way to bet. For instance, if his water is very hard (as mine is), that water is really only suitable for dark beers. If it's very soft, and he tries to do a dark beer.....

I just did my first BIAB last weekend (26 all-grain batches before that). I used 1 gallon of my hard tap water and 6.5 gallons of RO (reverse osmosis) water. You want your PH to end up between 5.2 and 5.6. In my system, using my most recent grain bill, that was only accomplished by a combination of salts (CaCL and Epsom) and some Lactic Acid.

[For OP: Grain is somewhat acidic; the darker the grain, as a rule, the more acidic it is. The famous English stouts were able to be brewed because the brewers used very dark grain (kilned) that was acidic enough to counteract the very hard water with which they had to brew. You do a calc based on how much and what kind of grain you have and then get some idea of what you're supposed to do.]

Further, if the water is chlorinated that should be addressed, either by boiling or a campden tablet.

This doesn't have to be overly hard, and if OP starts mostly from RO water it isn't hugely difficult, but to set aside water issues as if they are not relevant--well, they are.

If OP wants to fool with this, he can download EZWater (a free spreadsheet calculator) which allows you to enter various grains and water amendments in order to determine what the final mash PH and water composition will be.

The problem with ignoring water and focusing on process comes if the beer doesn't turn out. What do you blame? The water? The process? Better to have decent water to start.

 

[Sbe2]

Spring water or tap water (use 1/4 Campden tablet if your water has chlorine or chloramine) instead of RO unless you are prepared to adjust with minerals. The mash needs some minerals in the water which RO strips out.

In my opinion, water is very important, getting the minerals right for what style you want(hop forward or malt forward) is key. Or else you may be disappointed with the results. Use beersmith and/or bru n water to build your water profile.

Add the Campden tab, I dumped a batch after using tap water without it.


Edit: what mongoose33 said, he beat me to it

 

[normonster]

4. Do I just heat water to 155 or so, add grains to bag, let it sit there for an hour, remove bag, then continue on? Or is there more to it?

Thanks.

Essentially, yes.

Here is one way to get started with smaller batches and in phases that make sense to me. This is the advice I wish I had received before I bought my monster 3v system. I have both going now and I think at this point I've used the 1 gallon batch BIAB method almost as much as the 3V 10 gal batch system. It's nice to brew in the house.

____________


Phase One:
BeerSmith (moble ap or PC version)
3 Gallon Kettle
BIAB bag to fit (if you scale up later, this is your hop bag)
Auto Syphon
Scale (tenth gram accuracy – hops now, water additions later)
Refractometer
FG Hydrometer
5L wine bottle or equivalent (Capable of fermenting 1.25 gallons with headspace for krausen)
Airlock
(2) 2L flip-top growlers/bottles
Corn Sugar for priming, grain for recipe (pre-milled), hops for recipe
Starsan
PBW
Whirlfloc

*With this setup you can mash and boil 2-2.5 gallons of wort on your stovetop (need at least 1.25 gallons of boiled wort), chill the boiled wort in your sink, transfer wort and ferment in the wine bottle, then transfer to the growlers and prime for carbonation. You end up with 4L of finished beer in two growlers. Not to mention you can do this in your kitchen.

Phase Two:
Mini fridge (tall enough to fit your fermentation vessel with airlock)
Inkbird temp controller (2 stage)
Reptile heat-mat (or propagation heat-mat or whatever source of heat you want to use)
Second 5L wine bottle
Second airlock
Two more flip-top growlers
Maybe a cheap Corona grain mill, but buying pre-milled at this rate of consumption is totally fine

**Now you are set to control the temperature of your fermentation and double you production capacity. With a 2 week fermentation window and a 1 week bottle refermentation you could add a third set of fermenter/airlock/growlers and set yourself up with 2 growlers per week with weekly brew days, and you can make a wide range of styles and not have to worry about what you’ll do with 5 gallons of Russian Imperial Death Water. Not to mention that if a recipe does go awry, you can dump and not lose much in the way of cost.

Phase Three:
RO water (purchased or produced with a home system)
Download Brew’n Water (and read all the notes)
pH meter
pH meter calibration/storage solutions
Pipette
Lactic Acid (go EASY on additions here…start with half what is specified in Brew’n, measure and adjust further)
All chemicals for water adjustment listed in Brew’n Water (Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, Baking Soda, etc.)


***Now you are not only controlling the temperature of your ferment, but you are also in control of your water profile. It can be tailored to support certain styles and their characteristics.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I disagree with messing with water on the very first batch. It becomes brain overload.
Does the water taste good out of the tap...if so he'll be fine
Or just go buy a 5 gallon jug of water somewhere and use that.
Get the process down and when the noob nerves subside move to the next level

 

[mongoose33]

I disagree with messing with water on the very first batch. It becomes brain overload.
Does the water taste good out of the tap...if so he'll be fine
Or just go buy a 5 gallon jug of water somewhere and use that.
Get the process down and when the noob nerves subside move to the next level

I don't understand this. My water tastes great. It's also extremely unsuitable for brewing all but the darkest beers. It also is chlorinated which, if ignored, can result in some pretty poor outcomes.

Heck, if OP says what grains he's going to use, I'll give him a water adjustment based on RO water. It's not that hard. Figuring out what they should be? Not easy. Using what someone else has figured out? Not hard.

Meanwhile, OP should, at some point, get a water report for his tap water. Perhaps it's municipal water and a report exists (maybe...I wouldn't bet on it). Or he can send off a sample to Wards for an analysis and report.

Or he can just use RO water.

 

[plazola86]

I disagree with messing with water on the very first batch. It becomes brain overload.
Does the water taste good out of the tap...if so he'll be fine
Or just go buy a 5 gallon jug of water somewhere and use that.
Get the process down and when the noob nerves subside move to the next level

Exactly my thinking. Water does play a big role ONCE you having everything else locked down.

 

[marjen]

Heck, if OP says what grains he's going to use, I'll give him a water adjustment based on RO water. It's not that hard. Figuring out what they should be? Not easy. Using what someone else has figured out? Not hard.

I will be using american 2-row, white wheat, carapils and crystal Malt 15L. I will be making a NE IPA. I would be using RO water as I have a well and dont trust the quality of it. I have gypsum and CACl. Looks like would be a total of about 12.5 lb of grain, at least that is what the all grain version calls for.

 

[normonster]

I don't understand this. My water tastes great. It's also extremely unsuitable for brewing all but the darkest beers. It also is chlorinated which, if ignored, can result in some pretty poor outcomes.

Heck, if OP says what grains he's going to use, I'll give him a water adjustment based on RO water. It's not that hard. Figuring out what they should be? Not easy. Using what someone else has figured out? Not hard.

Meanwhile, OP should, at some point, get a water report for his tap water. Perhaps it's municipal water and a report exists (maybe...I wouldn't bet on it). Or he can send off a sample to Wards for an analysis and report.

Or he can just use RO water.

If he uses RO and brews a Blond there is very little adjustment needed.

My advice for non-water adjusters is to just avoid recipes with a lot of very dark malts and stick to lighter blonds and pales....

You're right, it isn't that hard, but he'd still need all the minerals and a good scale, and lactic acid and a pipette and a pH meter, even if you had his recipe plugged into Brew'n Water or something.

 

[normonster]

I will be using american 2-row, white wheat, carapils and crystal Malt 15L. I will be making a NE IPA. I would be using RO water as I have a well and dont trust the quality of it. I have gypsum and CACl. Looks like would be a total of about 12.5 lb of grain, at least that is what the all grain version calls for.

If you're interested in adjustments you should DL Brew'n Water and put that recipe in. Even just reading the notes in that program will really help you understand what does what. I bought and read the Water Book and I think what you get in the notes of Brew'n is a much better start for the non-chemist.

It's free. Hint, if you're using straight RO just set the dilution percentage to 100%.

 

[brewprint]

The quality of the crush is the best indicator of mash efficiency. If the particles of grain are too large they won't get wet to the center so the starch won't gelatinize and thus won't convert to sugars.

I don't disagree totally with this. The point I was making is that all the rhetoric about having such a fine crush or double crush is unnecessary in my experience.

The grain needs to be crushed but a .06 is good enough. Wheat maybe more but most grain is actually fine.

 

[violinguy]

I disagree with messing with water on the very first batch. It becomes brain overload.
Does the water taste good out of the tap...if so he'll be fine
Or just go buy a 5 gallon jug of water somewhere and use that.
Get the process down and when the noob nerves subside move to the next level

Totally agree on the brain overload. Yes water is important. Yes, to make the best quality beer you need to adjust your water correctly.

But

You also have to measure grains, heat water correctly, hit the right mash temp., keep that mash temp. for 60+ minutes, sparge (or not) and get the boil volume right, prevent boil over, add hops correctly, cool wort quickly, activate yeast (should have been first), and aerate wort before pitching.

All this, while making sure everything the wort touches is sanitized (post boil) and be efficient in cleaning your gear to prevent little greebles from growing in between brews. This is a lot to take in after only a few extract brews.

I don't see the harm in brewing with tap water (as long as it's decent) until those steps are learned and learned well. Then it's a more simple matter of learning about your personal water and how to treat it correctly - or how to use RO or spring water and treat it correctly. We only have so much RAM in our heads for new things.

 

[mongoose33]

Totally agree on the brain overload. Yes water is important. Yes, to make the best quality beer you need to adjust your water correctly.

But

You also have to measure grains, heat water correctly, hit the right mash temp., keep that mash temp. for 60+ minutes, sparge (or not) and get the boil volume right, prevent boil over, add hops correctly, cool wort quickly, activate yeast (should have been first), and aerate wort before pitching.

All this, while making sure everything the wort touches is sanitized (post boil) and be efficient in cleaning your gear to prevent little greebles from growing in between brews. This is a lot to take in after only a few extract brews.

I don't see the harm in brewing with tap water (as long as it's decent) until those steps are learned and learned well. Then it's a more simple matter of learning about your personal water and how to treat it correctly - or how to use RO or spring water and treat it correctly. We only have so much RAM in our heads for new things.

See, this is what I don't get. I agree with the highlighted statement above--but it's kind of a nonstarter for this reason: How do you tell if it's decent?

As I noted above, my water tastes great, and is suitable only for very dark beers. We can't just use qualitative measures (it tastes great, it's decent) without knowing what that means.

I'm just a little surprised by all this--I suspect that people who are saying "just go ahead with what you've got" must have pretty decent water, so it worked for them to do that. Doesn't work for me.

 

[Sbe2]

See, this is what I don't get. I agree with the highlighted statement above--but it's kind of a nonstarter for this reason: How do you tell if it's decent?

As I noted above, my water tastes great, and is suitable only for very dark beers. We can't just use qualitative measures (it tastes great, it's decent) without knowing what that means.

I'm just a little surprised by all this--I suspect that people who are saying "just go ahead with what you've got" must have pretty decent water, so it worked for them to do that. Doesn't work for me.

Your brewing world is similar to mine. I feel like I am living in bizzaro world reading your posts on this thread. Haha

 

[plazola86]

LOL were going to scare the OP away from any type of all grain with all this water talk! Its easier to think of it in terms of food (maybe just because I like food)

Your steak = the beer recipe
Water treatment = seasoning
Your grill = your process

You could make a great steak with no seasoning as long as you cook it right. Now you could make an even better steak if you add seasoning. You could have the best seasoning in the world but if you overcook that steak it wont taste right.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

The OP mentions (not in the OP) that he has crappy well water and will be using RO water, maybe from an existing system in the house. He already has salts so it sounds like he wants to go full bore right out of the gate and that's more than fine...doesn't usually work that way...Many here get there feet wet with all grain before water adjustments...Sounds like hes putting in the effort and will make a fine beer....the water adjustments takes more brain power than steeping grains...Brew on

 

[VagueSkunk]

Disregard my previous question...this looks like it answers all my questions: http://biabcalculator.com/

 

[hezagenius]

I will be using american 2-row, white wheat, carapils and crystal Malt 15L. I will be making a NE IPA. I would be using RO water as I have a well and dont trust the quality of it. I have gypsum and CACl. Looks like would be a total of about 12.5 lb of grain, at least that is what the all grain version calls for.

What chloride and sulfate are you looking for? If those are the only 2 minerals you are using, it's easy to calculate the amount of CaCl and gypsum needed to achieve the Cl:SO4 ratio. For Cl, CaCl provides 127ppm Cl per gallon per gram. For SO4, gypsum provides 147.4ppm SO4 per gallon per gram. So if you want 150Cl:150SO4, you would want to add (150/127)=1.181g of CaCl per gallon and (150/147.4) = 1.018g of gypsum per gallon. You would multiply those amounts by the number of gallons of water you are using.

 

[balrog]

This is a great hobby that doesn't have to be rocket science, unless you want it to be. Try the BIAB, definitely get the Wilser bag, use a calculator like PricelessBrewing, and after you make a batch or two, try adjusting water or getting into pH. But you'll make good beer without that, and probably great beer when you pay attention to all that. I am still playing with temperature more than anything, ferment & mash temp, control and adjustments.