Things I don't like about iBrewMaster

[alestateyall]

No worries HopRod! We actively try to monitor forums and respond to user requests, feature updates, and appreciate constructive criticism. It's the only way to understand what users need and want, and we take iBrewMaster very seriously. I can't begin to tell you the features we have planned! It's just a matter of time and prioritizing them. Speaking of that...one of our top priorities is to expand on the yeast options. We're simply too thin there right now....we'll be putting in some yeast pitching calculators and allowing multiple yeast additions. I'm a bit thrown on tying it to the mash temperature, as the mashing would have taken place before the boil....I assume you meant the Primary temp!? That's a great idea to automatically populate it based on the primary temperature and still allow users to override it. In addition, we're investigating the effects of attenuation when using multiple strains. We're honestly not sure if the attenuation should be an average of the different yeast attenuations, or if it should be the highest. There's also no real way to know which yeast began propagation first or which is dominant. We've actually reached out to some of the yeast companies for some direction here!

In either case, thanks for the reply! Lots more planned!

Cheers!
Joe

For attenuation he means there is more attenuation with mash temp of 150F than for mash temp 158F. The lower mash temps convert more starches to sugars which leads to higher attenuation because the yeast can convert the extra sugars to alcohol. The higher mash temps leave more starches which mean lower attenuation.

I have never seen any formulas which mathematically quantify this. Maybe a good PHD dissertation topic for a iBrewmaster intern

 

[iBrewMaster]

Ah yes! I see your point regarding more / less fermentable sugars! I tend to enjoy more full bodied beers and base my mashing temps on this (depending on the style of course) to get more unfermentable sugars. But I agree...I've never seen any published formulas on this either....same as my Q regarding which attenuation to use when using multiple yeasts! Siebel Institute of Technology here I come! :-D

 

[HopRodGR]

Ah yes! I see your point regarding more / less fermentable sugars! I tend to enjoy more full bodied beers and base my mashing temps on this (depending on the style of course) to get more unfermentable sugars. But I agree...I've never seen any published formulas on this either....same as my Q regarding which attenuation to use when using multiple yeasts! Siebel Institute of Technology here I come! :-D

That's exactly what I was getting at, fermentability based on mash temperature. I can't say I know of a scientific way to quantify this, other than using the manufacturers specs for a range of attenuation, then maybe using a scale that starts at the high end of the range when you mash at 148, and goes down to the low end when you mash at 158. This would obviously be adjustable, as I've hit way higher attenuation than the manufacturers say for a number of yeasts.

Either way I have no doubt there are some good updates to come. I've only owned the app for a few months and I've already seen a lot of improvements.

 

[CBelli]

I also find the formula for SG & OG to be way off..... the trub loss fix does not play a factor into the error IMHO....

I think the math is off, and honestly, if I was designing the recipe inside IBM rather than re-entering it from BeerSmith I would miss my gravities and also through off my IBU's too...

I have also tried my recipies in BrewMate (www.brewmate.net) and the gravities match BeerSmith. This also tends to validate the errors with IBM

 

[iBrewMaster]

Hey CBelli,
We respectfully disagree of course! We've had it challenged many times but it has always come down to user settings and not understanding their effects on the calculations. If you can provide actual details rather than just sightng other programs, we'd be glad to explain. If you've actually found an error, then we certainly want to fix it ASAP, so please feel free to send us the details and exports!

Cheers!
iBrewMaster, Inc.

 

[CBelli]

Hey CBelli,
We respectfully disagree of course! We've had it challenged many times but it has always come down to user settings and not understanding their effects on the calculations. If you can provide actual details rather than just sightng other programs, we'd be glad to explain. If you've actually found an error, then we certainly want to fix it ASAP, so please feel free to send us the details and exports!

Cheers!
iBrewMaster, Inc.

Love to supply exports. If you can show me what I'm am doing wrong I would not feel like I wasted 15 bucks! How do I export the recipe to you?

 

[CBelli]

Hey CBelli,
We respectfully disagree of course! We've had it challenged many times but it has always come down to user settings and not understanding their effects on the calculations. If you can provide actual details rather than just sightng other programs, we'd be glad to explain. If you've actually found an error, then we certainly want to fix it ASAP, so please feel free to send us the details and exports!

Cheers!
iBrewMaster, Inc.

I would love it if you could tell me what I'm doing wrong. I feel like I wasted 15 bucks. How do I export?

 

[iBrewMaster]

Hey CBelli. Ok, I'm not much of a user guide reader myself...who is? But I have to say that we get at least a half dozen e-mails a day as well as reviews stating things like:
"Why don't you support BeerXML?"
"Can you add an import / export function?"
"Do you support Metric?"
"You need to add a way for users to add their own ingredients."
"Can you add timers to the app?"
"I'd like a way to scale recipes."
etc.

iBrewMaster does ALL of these things, plus a great deal more! So, while the user guide is being updated to include newer features such as the Inventory module, there really is a lot of useful information in it! We truly mean no disrespect, but you may want to read it before you feel like you wasted 15 bucks. We really urge people to spend some time poking around the Setup menu option because it's packed with features. This is where you go to export recipes in either BeerXML format or iBrewMaster XML format. We had to create our own XML format to support features that BeerXML doesn't....like unlimited fermentation steps. (BeerXML only supports 3, as well as many other limitations.)

While we're on it, in the setup you can add any of your own Grains, Hops, Yeasts, Additions, Mash Steps, Carbonation Steps, Fermentation Steps, Grain Types, Grain Origins, Hop Types, Hop Forms, Hop Uses, Hop Origins, Yeast Types, Yeast Forms, Yeast Labs, Yeast Flocculations, Addition Types, Mash / Eq Profiles, etc., etc. You can also edit the on-hand inventory of Grains, Hops, Yeasts, and Additions there, or directly from any recipe by tapping an ingredient, or from any batch by tapping an ingredient. You can also backup your entire iBrewMaster database with Dropbox for safekeeping, or to transfer it to another iPhone or iPad. You can also go to the Defaults and change your default Boil and Batch Sizes, set which Auto Calculate Settings you want, your default Mash / Eq Profile, Efficiency, grain and hop units (g, kgs if using metric, oz, lbs if using U.S.), your default IBU calculation method (Daniels, Rager, Tinseth), U.S. or Metric settings for Water Volume, Temperature, Grains, and Hops independently), your date format (MM/DD/YYYY or DD/MM/YYYY), color format (SRM or EBC), notifications (being notified 1 or 2 days ahead of each fermentation action step and at what time...Apple requires that you setup your i-device to allow notifications from an app in the device system setup under notifications.), and whether or not you want to use the Inventory Module so that your O/H Qty's show up in Green if you have the entire required amount of an ingredient, Yellow if you only have some, or Red if you have none.

So, while we know this may go well beyond your original post, we wanted to take a brief moment to address some other postings, reviews, and e-mails. But, let's get to the bottom of the calculations and getting us an export. Go to the Setup and select "Export iBrewMaster Recipes". Tap the "Personal" button on top to filter out your recipes and then hit the circle to the left of the one you want to send us. Tap "Export" in the upper right hand corner. You'll be given a choice to export it as Plain Text or as a File Attachment. Select File Attachment and it will bring up an e-mail page. Enter our support address, and shoot it to us. However, in addition, we need to know all the settings for the Mash / Eq Profile you have selected for the recipe....including:

Grain Temp
Grain Absorption
Mash Tun Volume Loss
Mash Tun Temp Loss
Hourly Boiloff
Cooling Shrinkage
Kettle Trub Loss

It's usually the Kettle Trub Loss that causes the most confusion, but we'll explain that after we receive your recipe. We'll be glad to break it down and see what's going on.

We just received an e-mail of your recipe, but that's not an export....if you can send an export, then we can load it in and do some testing.....

Cheers!

 

[iBrewMaster]

Hey CBelli,
We received your export. For the sake of other users, we'll summarize:


Ok, here's the breakdown from the recipe you sent us.

10.00 lbs of Pilsner (2 Row) Ger with an SG of 1.037
1.50 lbs of Vienna Malt with an SG of 1.036
1.00 lbs of Munich Malt with an SG of 1.037
0.50 lbs of Candi Sugar, Amber with an SG of 1.036


For each grain, you calculate the gravity contribution as follows:

grainGraivty = (grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)

You have a batch size of 6.00 gallons and we're assuming a Kettle Trub Loss of 0.0 gallons. So, let's check the math!

For the 10.00 lbs of Pilsner (2 Row) Ger with an SG of 1.037:

(grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)
(10 * ((1.037 - 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (6.00 + 0.00)
(10 * 37 * .70) / 6.00
259 / 6.00
43.17 gravity points

To explain, again, you get a potential of 37 gravity points per lb, per gallon of water. But you're efficiency is only 70%, so you really only extract 70% of that. 37 gravity points * 10 lbs divided by 6.00 gallons would be a potential of 61.66 gravity points, but you only get 70% of that, or 43.17. Math checks out there…let's keep going for each grain….



(grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)
(1.50 * ((1.036 - 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (6.00 + 0.00)
(1.50 * 36 * .70) / 6.00
37.8 / 6.00
6.30 gravity points


(grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)
(1.00 * ((1.037 - 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (6.00 + 0.00)
(1.00 * 37 * .70) / 6.00
25.9 / 6.00
4.32 gravity points


(grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)
(0.50 * ((1.036 - 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (6.00 + 0.00)
(0.50 * 36 * .70) / 6.00
12.6 / 6.00
2.10 gravity points


If we add up all the gravity points:

43.17 + 6.30 + 4.32 + 2.10 = 55.89

That equals an OG of 1.05589. Your recipe shows 1.056, which is 1.05589 rounded!

So, again…we've done this at least 2 dozen times for doubting users! Perhaps other apps have been off all along! :-D

Cheers!

 

[Accidic]

I have yet to successfully export any files but I did send an email to make you aware. There still seems to be a number of moderately significant bugs on the android version but being fair you do seem to be actively be working on stamping them out. Several were corrected in the most recent patch. Part of me wonders if issues with 2.2.x is the core issue but shrug.

 

[iBrewMaster]

Hey Accidic,
Yes, we did have some initial issues with the Android version but have put out 6 updates since it's initial release and will continue to until all the little bugs are weeded out. After that, we'll be looking to add a lot more additional features that the iOS versions enjoy. We take the apps extremely serious, appreciate user feedback, constructive criticism and active participation in reporting bugs and suggesting new features. That's really the only way we can truly fix problems and address users needs, so please feel free to post suggestions on our site under Support & Feedback. This is where users can suggest new features and other users can vote on them so that we can prioritize new enhancements.

Cheers!

 

[CBelli]

Hey CBelli,
We received your export. For the sake of other users, we'll summarize:


That equals an OG of 1.05589. Your recipe shows 1.056, which is 1.05589 rounded!

So, again…we've done this at least 2 dozen times for doubting users! Perhaps other apps have been off all along! :-D

Cheers!

I went back and created a new test batch with 12lbs of 2row only -- no hops or yeast to compare software... and IBM matches all my other software on that!! I understand that you tweaked the trub loss numbers and I uploaded an update a couple days ago, this "TEST" recipe was the first new one I entered since....
My question is... does the update change the numbers for previous recipes?? That would explain a lot...

I also want to publicly say that IBM certainly calculates gravity correctly in this new recipe... I just wish I could figure out the reason my other recipes don't match?

 

[iBrewMaster]

Hey CBelli,
Well, that depends....if you change anything with your default Mash / Eq Profile settings, iBrewMaster will recalculate the data for those that are set to Auto Calculate. So, if you have over-rode one of the fields with a manually entry, then it wouldn't.

In either case, we're glad to see we're matching up for you! Our first and foremost priority is a stable, bug-free and accurate app, so we're always glad to hash it out and look at the details to ensure that!

Cheers!

 

[Accidic]

I want bludgeoning you re: the issues with it. I see most working themselves out (i need to send another email but haven't had the time). The short list is I'm still having issues with some entries showing up in ml regardless of measure and I've noticed since one of the patches I can't select a style anymore. Seems as if the export/import was fixed this mornings patch tho.

 

[CBelli]

I have waited a few months for IBM updates before I made my final decision....
I stopped using IBM, actually never really started.... not only did I have a hard time matching gravity with previous software but the fact that it was not capable of calculating sparge water, rendered it completely useless.... How can any all grain brewer, other than BIAB, use brewing software that will not calculate sparge water???

How can this be left out of any brewing software?
Especially the most expensive one?

I did contact customer support (months ago) and received a quick reply of a multi step workaround that was more confusing than it needed to be.

I guess I'll stick with beersmith, although the ipad app is far from useful at least the main software is best in class

 

[signpost]

*** ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT ***

I'm reviving this thread, because I just got an Android phone and was wondering if this app has improved at all. This thread and the reviews of the app on the Google store pretty much say that the iOS version was great, but the Android version is terrible.

The last post on this thread was almost a year ago, and the most recent reviews I saw were near that same time frame.

Did they continue to fix bugs and do updates? Are the calculations really actually wrong?

Or is this whole fiasco due to fans of Apple products hating Android devices and there were never any actual problems with the app?

I'm a poor grad student, so I don't want to spend $10 on the app, if it is going to end up sucking.

 

[stdywell]

Almost entirely the way it is for me, I don't use BeerSmith anymore, I carry around my iPad, and use ibrewmaster.
It's not that we are not as experienced or don't know what we're missing. I like having the inventory, the ability to design a recipe at a friends house, and email a recipe when I'm not at my computer.
I actually hate the new BeerSmith 2.0, the screen is almost too busy! There are some nice things about BeerSmith, but for me, they do to out weigh the perks of ibrewmaster for me.
I also like the fact that when I email the developer, which I have done several time, the average response time is less than 3 hours, and not a canned response like some grain mill manufacturers, but an actual answer.

I liked this app, until I started having issues with OG/FG readings like -223346557876. I have contacted these people and all I get is "I'll get it to the developer" I have sent them recipes and batches and it has been SIX WEEKS waiting for a response . This has drastically changed my opinion of this app to crap. If you are not going to support something, then just say so.

 

[squash1978]

I use iBrewMaster2 and it works well for me. I have not used any other apps, so I don't have anything to compare it too though. There a few things about it that I don't like but they are pretty minor.

1. I do BIAB and getting the strike water volume/temperature calculation is two-step process. It does not spit out the total volume and water temperature you need automatically based on your mash profile and batch size. To figure out the total water you need, you have to enter a known water quantity in your mash step (I use 10 qts for simplicity). Once you do that and save, iBrewMaster2 will show you how much "sparge" water you need. Adding the two together gives you your total volume needed for BIAB. You then have to go back to the mash step and enter to correct volume to get the water temp calculation. It's not obvious at first and would be nice if I didn't have to go through the extra steps. One time I forgot to do the second step and accidentally heated my strike water much higher than it should have been. I only realized what had happened once I doughed in and saw that my mash temp was too high.
   
2. The batch log sucks. It's accessed via a dog-ear graphic on the bottom right corner of the batch summary, which is not obvious. Furthermore, each entry you add only shows up on 1 line. Totally useless in my opinion. At first I was really disappointed about this but I started using Evernote for keeping my batch notes and far prefer it instead. There is only so much typing I can do on my phone and I probably would not keep as good of notes on it.
   
3. It only calculates efficiency ones you've entered the FG of a batch. I wish it had the ability to calculate my efficiency after I finish mashing. That information would be much more useful to me. It's not terrible b/c my pre-boil OG will tell me if I'm where I need to be for the recipe but I would still be nice to know as I am brewing. I wish it tracked and allowed you to enter your pre-boil OG along with your pre-boil volume.

That said, I'm pretty satisfied with iBrewMaster2 and those issues are not big enough to cause me to switch to another app. One thing I do like about iBrewMaster2 is that it is maintained on regular basis, much more so than the BeerSmith mobile app and to certain extent the Brewer's Friend app. That's a big selling point for me b/c I can have greater confidence in regular improvements and updates.