There's Some Bad Info Going Around

[MrManifesto]

about not needing to aerate dry yeast. This is completely false info and I can just picture noobs taking this in and having a ton of stuck ferments. Let's nip this in the bud! Aerate, people!

 

[JonK331]

Good point. All worts should be aerated regardless of type or form of yeast.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

about not needing to aerate dry yeast. This is completely false info and I can just picture noobs taking this in and having a ton of stuck ferments. Let's nip this in the bud! Aerate, people!

i'm with ya there, bro! i've been seeing this and another piece of bad info being given to new brewers. the second is that you don't need to make a starter with liquid yeast. i think it's bad for folks to be advising new brewers against proper technique because they can make decent beer without starters and proper aeration.
pitch rates, aeration and fermentation temps are crucial to great beer. i know people make good beer while ignoring these facts, but i think new brewers should be informed that with a few very simple steps, they can make great beer, and not just good beer. big thumbs up to you, MrManifesto! Prost!

 

[Diver165]

I noticed my beer quality improved greatly with aeration and sticking to the proper fermentation temps. I'm just now getting into starters. I'll be picking peoples brains in the days to come.

 

[D_Ranged_Eskimo]

I got a stir plate for Christmas and can't wait to use it to see what the difference will be. I've made decent beer for what I was expecting so far, but can't wait to throw in proper pitch rate!

 

[JustLooking]

From Danstar:

I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?

No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.

If the slurry from dry yeast fermentation is re-pitched from one batch of beer to another, the wort has to be aerated as with any liquid yeast.

So, do you want to believe some guy on the internet or the company who makes the product?

 

[ChillWill]

The leading figure in yeast research in the UK and someone who actually worked for lallemand/danstar on yeast viability told me (and other commercial brewers in a lab session/lecture) specifically NOT to aerate.

But hey, what would they know.

 

[ajf]

For the first three posters, I'm sure you all believe what you say, but to state your beliefs as facts without anything to back them up isn't helping anybody.

-a.

 

[wildwest450]

Do some research before posting, it is NOT necessary.

Threads like this make me sick.


Just because the majority believe something, that doesn't make it so.

 

[ChillWill]

Threads like this make me sick.

Me too! I'm actually a little bit angry that the op is making us out to be people spreading bad information (even though we're using information from the company and scientists) and then he offers no evidence to support his claim that our advice is 'completely false'.

It's actually a little be insulting.

 

[Revvy]

From Danstar:


So, do you want to believe some guy on the internet or the company who makes the product?

But fermentis says to aerate with their yeasts. So do you want to believe the makers of Notty, or the makers of us-05?

This is another one of those arguments that probably will never be resolved and will be argued incessantly. And like all the others will have no resolution, so it's stupid to argue, just choose what you believe, and do it.

I was taught to aerate will all yeasts....And I personally don't plan on stopping. It may not be "necessary," but I don't think doing it is harmful either.

 

[wildwest450]

Especially since he's taking this from another thread where faulty information is being touted as gospel.

 

[wildwest450]

but I don't think doing it is harmful either.

It isn't and never was presented as such. After many, many batches with dry yeast and never a stalled or incomplete fermentation, coupled with what experts say, I have no doubt.

The problem lies when people blame stalled fermentations on improper aeration, which is complete nonsense.

 

[terrapinj]

there's a good thread about this on the brewing network board
Beer Forum • View topic - Should you oxygenate/aerate dry yeast?

good explanation by Dr. Clayton Cone from Danstar/Lallemand
Aeration and Starter Versus Wort | Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts - The Dry Yeast Advantage

Lallemand packs the maximum amount of lipids into the cell wall that is possible during the aerobic production of the yeast at the factory. When you inoculate this yeast into a starter or into the mash, the yeast can double about three time before it runs out of lipids and the growth will stop. There is about 5% lipids in the dry yeast.

In a very general view:

At each doubling it will split the lipids with out making more lipids (no O2). The first split leaves 2.5% for each daughter cell. The second split leaves 1.25% for each daughter cell. The next split leaves 0.63%. This is the low level that stops yeast multiplication. Unless you add O2 the reproduction will stop.

When you produce 3-5% alcohol beer this is no problem. It is when you produce higher alcohol beer or inoculate at a lower rate, that you need to add O2 to produce more yeast and for alcohol tolerance near the end of fermentation. You definitely need added O2 when you reuse the yeast for the next inoculum.

 

[ChillWill]

But fermentis says to aerate with their yeasts. So do you want to believe the makers of Notty, or the makers of us-05?

I was taught to aerate will all yeasts....And I personally don't plan on stopping. It may not be "necessary," but I don't think doing it is harmful either.

A) Nottingham is the best selling dried yeast in the world... just sayin'

B) everyone can do what they want and have their opinion, but the op shouldn't be starting a thread like this (in my opinion, of course)

 

[bob1852]

But fermentis says to aerate with their yeasts. So do you want to believe the makers of Notty, or the makers of us-05?

okay, Revvy, I'll bite.

Fermentis recommends to aerate to mix the wort/yeast completely.

Aeration is recommended to ensure full mixing of the wort and yeast.

Now, we know the main reasone adequate aeration is needed with liquid yeast is because plenty of oxygen is needed during the initial reproductive phase (which isn't needed with dry yeast pitching rates).

So, while Fermentis may recommend aeration, it certainly isn't to increase oxygen levels; it's solely for mixing of yeast/wort.

 

[Revvy]

A) Nottingham is the best selling dried yeast in the world... just sayin'

And Fermentis has never had any of their yeasts recalled have they?
(I personally think Notty sucks.)

I'm really not getting into this argument, if you look at what I wrote, I said it's stupid to argue about it. I just was pointing out the different view....

 

[kmk1012]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't a person aerate their wort? Just one extra little step to ensure (for me) a good faster fermentation.

 

[Revvy]

okay, Revvy, I'll bite.

Fermentis recommends to aerate to mix the wort/yeast completely.



Now, we know the main reasone adequate aeration is needed with liquid yeast is because plenty of oxygen is needed during the initial reproductive phase (which isn't needed with dry yeast pitching rates).

So, while Fermentis may recommend aeration, it certainly isn't to increase oxygen levels; it's solely for mixing of yeast/wort.

There's actually a very interesting discussion of all this on pro-brewer about the fact that 2 different companies state different things. Undortunately my computer crashed and I can't find the link, or if it was probrewer or another forum.

Most of the folks in that thread were of the mindset to just do what works for you....I tend to agree.

I just was pointing out that fermentis says one thing and danstar says another.

I agree that the OP need not have jumped the gun and said it was bad advice. It's really like so much brewing stuff, just another opinion.

 

[Reelale]

Now, we know the main reasone adequate aeration is needed with liquid yeast is because plenty of oxygen is needed during the initial reproductive phase (which isn't needed with dry yeast pitching rates).

You need to better understand yeast life-cycles.

 

[BigUgly]

Eh...

 

[ChillWill]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't a person aerate their wort? Just one extra little step to ensure (for me) a good faster fermentation.

Read some of the info on this thread.

Revvy - wasn't arguing. And I partially agree on Nottingham. It's ok when used cool (like homebrew temps), but at temps some commercial brewers are trying to use it at round here it's sulfur bombing their beer.

 

[usfmikeb]

Keep in mind that Fermentis and Lallemand might be using different processes when making their yeasts. Lallemand might have more lipids than Fermentis, creating different o2 needs.

Even if Lallemand doesn't need o2, it is a best practice to do it every time, so you're in the habit of it when you do need it.

 

[passedpawn]

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't a person aerate their wort? Just one extra little step to ensure (for me) a good faster fermentation.

That's a good question. There's all sorts of info out there why it is unnecessary, but I don't think it can cause any harm. Unless there is an increased possibility of bacterial contamination. Also, I remember hearing a podcast of where excessive O2 was the cause of an off flavor (a Jamil podcast I think).

Search for Dr. Clayton Cone and you'll find all the trustable info you want on dry yeast.

 

[QuaffableQuips]

I dunno, every time I've attempted to aerate dry yeast, it just flies all over the room...

 

[wailingguitar]

about not needing to aerate dry yeast. This is completely false info and I can just picture noobs taking this in and having a ton of stuck ferments. Let's nip this in the bud! Aerate, people!

I always aerate, BUT according to the manufacturers it isn't necessary... at least not when pitching the dry, it is when using slurry derived from it

Beer Home Brewing Why use Fermentis Yeast

Frequently Asked Questions | Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts - The Dry Yeast Advantage

 

[Revvy]

Even if Lallemand doesn't need o2, it is a best practice to do it every time, so you're in the habit of it when you do need it.

This is part of my reasoning for continuing to do it. I try to have a consistent process in my brewing practice. Keeps me from forgetting things like pitching yeast or sanitizing or adding hops, so even if I'm drunk, answering questions while brewing, or if there's any chance of interruption, my process is steady, and works for me. "Step w" aerate, step x pitch yeast, step y sanitize lid/stopper, step z seal fermenter.'

 

[ChillWill]

I dunno, every time I've attempted to aerate dry yeast, it just flies all over the room...

Haha, much needed humour in this thread.

FYI I was told it can increase staling. Yeast won't take up ALL the oxygen you add (or so the oxygen meter at work tells me). So if you don't specifically need it, it's best not to add it.

 

[Revvy]

I dunno, every time I've attempted to aerate dry yeast, it just flies all over the room...

Made me think of the movie where, I think it was, Woody Allen that sneezed on the line of coke and blew it way.

 

[usfmikeb]

This is part of my reasoning for continuing to do it. I try to have a consistent process in my brewing practice. Keeps me from forgetting things like pitching yeast or sanitizing or adding hops, so even if I'm drunk, answering questions while brewing, or if there's any chance of interruption, my process is steady, and works for me. "Step w" aerate, step x pitch yeast, step y sanitize lid/stopper, step z seal fermenter.'

Yep, my checklist is the most important tool on brewday.