Theorizing: Cutting brew day time by using a Tankless Water Heater

[cannman]

Before you get wasted for the day, ponder this over some coffee...

A solid chuck of my brew day is getting water ready for mashing via flame. Sometimes this can take a while depending on the temp outside and if there is a wind. Depending on a number of factors, it might take up to 40 minutes for me to raise enough mashing water for 10 gallons of beer BIAB, we're talking usually about 13-15 gallons.

Now, how much time would it save to incorporate a tankless water heater!?

Lets take a look at this 2 gal a minute PROPANE POWERED tankless water heater who's only electric source are 2 D batteries and is priced under $200.

With this model I can get all the water I need at strike temp in about 10 minutes (with finer adjustments to the temp being handled by the propane burner under the kettle), faster on warmer summer days, and be off to the races almost as soon as I set up for brewing.

Now, I understand that this might only save me 30 minutes, but if I take say, 5 hours for a brew day, that's 10%! I'm almost at my own Geico commercial!

It should also save some money too. 40 minutes at 55000 btu is 36667 BTU worth. This tankless water heater uses 79228 btu @ 10 minutes is 7923 BTU worth of propane from the same tank! A saving of 78% in mash water propane use. Why am I not doing this??

What do you think? Problems? Issues? Next cup of coffee please!

 

[b-boy]

I've thought about this too. I'm trying to figure out how to get one in my garage. I'd go NG though.

I looked at whole house units. The device was ~$800, but with professional installation it was close to $2,000. The big problem with these units is the installation costs. If you're doing the work yourself, it's may not be an issue, but you'll still need top purchase SS venting and a do fairly complicated installation.

 

[cannman]

I've thought about this too. I'm trying to figure out how to get one in my garage. I'd go NG though.

I looked at whole house units. The device was ~$800, but with professional installation it was close to $2,000. The big problem with these units is the installation costs. If you're doing the work yourself, it's may not be an issue, but you'll still need top purchase SS venting and a do fairly complicated installation.

I read the install guide before putting further consideration into this, you're right, indoor code applications do require the venting, but the install is a cinch. I can see the house sized version requiring some kind of difficult install but I had two ideas in mind.

1) This will only be used on brew day so it will be going in my shed. I would just go straight up from the location of the unit through the roof and extend the pipe whatever number of inches based on the measured pitch. Seems pretty simple.

Warning: do not try this a home!2) I was thinking of mounting this thing on a metal utility cart instead the wall. Cart or not, since the shed has a 10'x8' door that will be open and has two ceiling vents (to allow brew steam to just shoot right out off the building) I'm wondering if venting is even necessary... If I'm already open air venting 55000 btus in a non-living quarters shed for hours, 70000 btu for 10 minutes should be managed successfully by existing venting...

hmmm... epitaph?

 

[b-boy]

I see you're in CA. My big issue is venting during the winter, when I can't open my garage door for ventilation. That and running a water line that won't freeze up. I rarely brew during the winter. I already have a heater running in there that vents though the wall.

 

[b-boy]

hmmm... epitaph?

Just leave a confusing suicide note lying around every time you brew. Blame it on global warming, Brittney Spears, or Cuba. At least that way, if you asphyxiate yourself, they won't call you stupid at your funeral.

I think you'd be fine running this with a shed door open for 10 minutes or so.

 

[BrewBarron]

You got me interested but if you look at the specs, the max temp is only 140. We're going to need another 30 degrees or so.

 

[cannman]

You got me interested but if you look at the specs, the max temp is only 140. We're going to need another 30 degrees or so.

Actually the unit is configurable. Based on your ground water temp that day, you would dial in what you need. Here's the chart in the spec

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1463759642.789357.jpg

There is hope!

 

[Gameface]

I recently installed a tankless water heater for my house after my tank heater started leaking.

I installed a NG condensing model (Takagi H3J).

Installation was not all that complicated. I did have to run an exhaust line, but since I got the condensing model I was able to use CPVC instead of stainless. Cutting the hole in the side of my house was the hardest part.

I've considered using hot water from the unit for brewing but I have a scale inhibitor cartridge installed http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NKETXQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and I'm not sure if the scale inhibitor chemicals are okay for brewing so I haven't used it yet.


Sidenote, I LOVE my tankless water heater. Love it! Does everything my tank could do, even with 45F groundwater, and when I use hot water to clean my brewing stuff I never run out! Plus, I got a $350 rebate and will get a $300 tax credit, so this cost me less than slapping in another tank heater. I installed myself and it took the better part of a day.

 

[cannman]

I recently installed a tankless water heater for my house after my tank heater started leaking.

I installed a NG condensing model (Takagi H3J).

Installation was not all that complicated. I did have to run an exhaust line, but since I got the condensing model I was able to use CPVC instead of stainless. Cutting the hole in the side of my house was the hardest part.

I've considered using hot water from the unit for brewing but I have a scale inhibitor cartridge installed http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NKETXQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and I'm not sure if the scale inhibitor chemicals are okay for brewing so I haven't used it yet.


Sidenote, I LOVE my tankless water heater. Love it! Does everything my tank could do, even with 45F groundwater, and when I use hot water to clean my brewing stuff I never run out! Plus, I got a $350 rebate and will get a $300 tax credit, so this cost me less than slapping in another tank heater. I installed myself and it took the better part of a day.

Fantastic news that you love it! I think when our water heater in the house goes out, we'll look to replace it with tankless. I'm digging the technology.

For your scale issue, if you were able to wire it yourself, how difficult would it be to add a bypass valve around the scale filter??

 

[WI_Wino]

Sidenote, I LOVE my tankless water heater. Love it! Does everything my tank could do, even with 45F groundwater, and when I use hot water to clean my brewing stuff I never run out!

Did you run out of hot water with your traditional tank water heater while cleaning?

 

[Gameface]

Did you run out of hot water with your traditional tank water heater while cleaning?

Yeah, sometimes. I have 2 20G kettles and a 15G kettle. I also sometimes have 4 kegs to clean at once and 2 16G fermentors. I usually fill the kegs completely full with oxyclean, run some of it trough my serving lines and then dump, rinse several times, then fill with fresh water and run some of that through my serving lines, then sanitize and run some of that through my serving lines. It can really add up.

With my kettles, I've been cleaning in place, and that takes more water than it did to spray them out and dump everything.

I probably use way more water than your average brewer and maybe I don't need to, and maybe someone is going to come in here and tell me what a horrible human being I am for it or whatever.

But bottom line, yes I would sometimes use all of my 40G hot water heater.

 

[cannman]

I think it was John Palmer who said the brewery waste water ratio was 1:10 :/ bad @gameface

 

[Gameface]

Fantastic news that you love it! I think when our water heater in the house goes out, we'll look to replace it with tankless. I'm digging the technology.

For your scale issue, if you were able to wire it yourself, how difficult would it be to add a bypass valve around the scale filter??

I don't think it would be all that hard. I'm not very good at doing things cheaply so I think it would cost me around $50.

 

[cannman]

I don't think it would be all that hard. I'm not very good at doing things cheaply so I think it would cost me around $50.

When I work on my irrigation system outside, sometimes I need a $0.25 coupling or two, but leave with a $40 receipt.

SWMBO: "!!! He's backing up the car again!!!"

 

[calebstringer]

I did precisely this last year. I installed a Noritz LP commercial water heater. 200k btu's. It will output 180* water, year round. My initial plan was to move to a two vessel system, and using it to fill the mash tun/sparging. That plan didn't work out quite as well. So, I stuck with the 3 vessel system, and fill my HLT to desired volume with a temp close to what I'm targeting. If needed, ill kick my burner on for a minute or two as I'm adding salts/minerals/acid to the water, and that will dial in my temp exact.

It shaves off so much time brewing/cleaning/etc. At the minimum, I always brew two batches at a time. Several times I've triple brewed on one day, 9ish hours start to finish. Depending on gravity, I brew 10-15 gallons per batch.

I highly recommend it to everyone!

 

[Doctor_M]

I have a tankless hot water heater like in your original post that I plan on using soon. I'll report back in a few weeks when I get around to using it.