The verdict is in...

[Brewer_Bob]

So I passed out samples of my first brew to folks at the embassy on Thursday so they could try it over the weekend (weekends here are Friday-Saturday). I did a little self selecting in that I asked people what kind of beer they like before deciding to give them a sample. If they said something like Bud then I didn’t give them one. Not out of spite or anything, I just didn’t think they could handle a Stone Pale Ale clone just yet. I’ll be making a bock and a blond ale soon for them. People who said they like all kinds of beer or something like Sam Adams got them. A couple people even specifically said they preferred Pale Ales.

The beer was in primary for a month and in bottles for three weeks before I handed it out. I have to say, it is freaking delicious. About a week ago it had a bit of a harsh alcohol taste to it that is completely gone now. So I came to work today and have been inundated with compliments. A couple of them actually seemed skeptical that I made it. A common theme was “I thought home made beer was suppose to suck. This is better than anything I have bought in a store.”

So needless to say it was good for my ego. I told Revvy I would post pics so I will add some later to this thread. What I found most interesting was people were actually shocked that it tasted good. I really think the majority of people think homebrew is supposed to taste bad. I know the first time I had homebrew, a bock that my brother made, I was completely blow away. I guess nonbrewers have an idea in their heads that brewing is much more complicated than it actually is.

But I have to say, a big reason I succeeded at my first attempt was this forum. I can’t even count the number of mistakes I avoided from reading HBT first. I spent over a year reading this forum before making my first batch and while that might be a bit extreme, it certainly made my first batch that much easier.

So a big thanks to all the HBTers who ask their questions and share their experiences and knowledge here. You make HBT an invaluable resource.

 

[bullinachinashop]

Congrat's on your first success!
So what is your next batch going to be?

Bull

 

[Justibone]

Congrats!!

 

[billf2112]

Awesome. I am still weeks out before bottling. Like you I also lurked and asked and hope I missed some of the mistakes others have made.

 

[Daybis]

Congrats on the few brew. Having people enjoy something you took the time and energy to make is an awesome sensation. I'm lucky to have a lot of friends who prefer craft beers, but even the few of my bud drinking friends seem to enjoy some of my beers and have opened them up to trying new things. I have one friend that use to HATE beer, now he goes out of the way to buy craft beer we can't get here in MS.

Congrats!

 

[jfr1111]

Congrats on a delicious first brew. It looked like it was a smash with your guests. I had people over yesterday and one of them, who is a hardcore Labatt drinker, helped himself to three bombers of my Oatmeal Stout and left his case of Labatt on the porch ! It's always a nice feeling when others enjoy your work. He also volounteered to come help me on the next brew day and is looking at brewing his own...

Congrats again.

 

[akthor]

What I remember from 20 yrs or so ago when I was into brewing the first time was that home brews tasted very "yeasty" still good but there was a markedly different taste than store bought beer. A very "homebrew" taste. I think that "stigma" still lingers.

Now that I am back into it that doesn't seem to be the case as has been posted perhaps due to the increases in ingredient quality and yeast technology and even "brewing" technique.

I remember we always bottled our beer as soon as the airlock stopped showing activity and just like the directions would say 5 - 7 days. When I got back into this in August I first found talk here of the 4 weeks in primary. My friends who used to brew like me but hadn't in decades all scoffed when I said I was leaving my beer in primary for 4 weeks and not doing a secondary. Until they drank my beer They are believers now!

It is a much more enjoyable hobby for me now, oxyclean, star-san (a godsend probably the biggest work and timesaver), the internet to connect with other brewers, better ingredients and the internet to be able to buy gear and ingredients. Back then you were stuck with what your LHBS had on hand. Add in kegging and a much better final product due to all of the above and it is just so much more fun!

 

[passedpawn]

Good story. Getting ingredients - how?

 

[Revvy]

Congrats !!

 

[Brewer_Bob]

Good story. Getting ingredients - how?

I order everything from AHS. It gets delivered to a place in Virginia and then from there the State Department sends it to me. The plus side is I only have to pay the cost of shipping to Virginia. The down side is it can take 2-3 weeks for the stuff to get to me. The only real problem that presents me is that I am limited to using dry yeast.

 

[billf2112]

Wouldn't that "homebrew taste" actual mean good these days?

 

[Justibone]

Not necessarily.

I've had homebrew of my own and others, and it does taste different. Sometimes it tastes really good, and sometimes not. I know that I, for one, can't match the "clean" profile of the BMC beers... so homebrew is not the same as commercial. That being said, if I wanted to drink BMC all my life, or keep shelling out $11/6 pack of micro, I'd do that. I'm just trying to be realistic here.

 

[jfr1111]

Define "clean".

 

[alecoholic]

I've always wondered why people assume homemade beer is going to be worse than commercial beer when homemade food is generally better than commercial food. People don't come over for a BBQ and say "Wow, I thought homemade burgers were supposed to suck but this is way better than McDonalds."

 

[shroomzofdoom]

This is an awesome example of American ingenuity. You've brewed in one of the most beer-hostile places on earth!

What's next? Myanmar? North Korea? lol

 

[akthor]

For me using CO2 to carb my beers in kegs as opposed to in bottles with sugar makes a world of difference. I still have friends beers who bottle condition and they always taste more "homebrewy" than my beer. Though nothing like the old days.

 

[Justibone]

Define "clean".

To me, a "clean" tasting beer has a single (or at least very few) primary flavor(s). A clean-tasting beer has a single dominant flavor note, with no (or very few) side notes. Clean-tasting beer tends to be described as "crisp", and they are best served cold to enhance the unitary nature of their gustatory stimulus. I consider the lager style to be the archtypical "clean" beer. That is my personal definition of "clean" when it comes to beer.

It's difficult to brew that type without equipment and expertise. The fact that BMC waters their beers down doesn't mean the beers aren't well brewed in the first place.

"Clean" tasting beers are not the best beers -- they are just the type of beer that is most commercially successful to the mass market. I personally find that my homebrews have a lot of other flavors, so much so that two bottles from the same batch seldom taste the same. Is this a positive or a negative? Probably negative, but I'm still very new. My point is, what the mass market thinks of as "beer" is BMC, and homebrew is very, very different from BMC.

 

[jfr1111]

How can two bottles from the same batch taste different, apart from oxidation ? I'm sot sure I follow your argument here: the reason BMC tastes clean is because they are brewing the same damn recipe using the same process serveral times a day in controlled conditions and striving to produce somethign that is both accessible and conform to strict standards. Don't confuse clean with consistant, because if we follow your logic, microbreweries wich produce the same product in a reliable fashion, if they were to produce complex tasting beers, would be inferior to mass-produced beers because "they don't stick with one flavour".

At the homebrew level, I'm sure it is very much possible to attain a good crisp and clean beer. Maybe not with ales as you said, but I'd bet donuts to dollar that many who have lager capabilities and the experience with the genre can produce beers that have less flaws than BMC but still are crisp and dry to the palate. BMC are brewed very, very well on the consistency aspect: you crack a Bud Light, you know what you will get. That doesn't mean it will taste any good. The same can be said for Night Train and MD20/20 and nobody is hailing these wines as "well made".

 

[Brewer_Bob]

It seems obvious to me that bottles of beer from the same batch of homebrew can taste different. Perhaps if you kept them in the exact same conditions and drank them at the exact same time they should taste the same but that isn’t what happens. We drink them over a period of time. And rarely are bottles kept in the exact same condition. Even if you have them all in a box together the ones in the middle will be more insulated from temperature changes. Homebrew is “alive” and it reacts to its environment. Isn’t BMC pasteurized? I think that would play a significant part in consistency of taste.

And yeah, I have had homebrewed lagers that were clean. But to me clean seems to be the opposite of complex. And I prefer my beers complex in flavor.

 

[Justibone]

How can two bottles from the same batch taste different, apart from oxidation ? I'm sot sure I follow your argument here: the reason BMC tastes clean is because they are brewing the same damn recipe using the same process serveral times a day in controlled conditions and striving to produce somethign that is both accessible and conform to strict standards. Don't confuse clean with consistant, because if we follow your logic, microbreweries wich produce the same product in a reliable fashion, if they were to produce complex tasting beers, would be inferior to mass-produced beers because "they don't stick with one flavour".

At the homebrew level, I'm sure it is very much possible to attain a good crisp and clean beer. Maybe not with ales as you said, but I'd bet donuts to dollar that many who have lager capabilities and the experience with the genre can produce beers that have less flaws than BMC but still are crisp and dry to the palate. BMC are brewed very, very well on the consistency aspect: you crack a Bud Light, you know what you will get. That doesn't mean it will taste any good. The same can be said for Night Train and MD20/20 and nobody is hailing these wines as "well made".

I was about to reply, but got bored.

I SAID it is possible to make very clean-tasting beers for homebrewers; it's just difficult. Go ahead, try to recreate BMC -- AHBS has kits for it.

You are arguing things I haven't even said, and ignoring things I have. Hence, boredom. *yawn*

 

[Justibone]

It seems obvious to me that bottles of beer from the same batch of homebrew can taste different. Perhaps if you kept them in the exact same conditions and drank them at the exact same time they should taste the same but that isn’t what happens.

My worst example was comparing two brews, same batch, same night. One had a TERRIBLE taste, other was good. Traced it back to the bottle cap -- it had rusted.

We drink them over a period of time. And rarely are bottles kept in the exact same condition. Even if you have them all in a box together the ones in the middle will be more insulated from temperature changes. Homebrew is “alive” and it reacts to its environment. Isn’t BMC pasteurized? I think that would play a significant part in consistency of taste.

BMC is either pasteurized or filtered, or both, I believe. It's definitely not alive. Has anyone ever "captured" Coors yeast? Lol!

And yeah, I have had homebrewed lagers that were clean. But to me clean seems to be the opposite of complex. And I prefer my beers complex in flavor.

Yes! That's why we homebrew -- if we liked BMC we would have stuck with it.

Mass market beer is "clean", though, so when you hand a BMC drinker a homebrew they will usually either love it or hate it. It just depends. And as for me, I'm hesitant to offer my homebrew sometimes because the flavor changes, and I don't know what exactly it will be like when they drink it.

So, not judging by our palates, but by those of the mass market, homebrew is very different and they are -- pardon the truth here -- generally very beer ignorant. BMC sells millions upon millions of gallons per year because people *like* their beer... not everyone enjoys the complexity and "living beer" that we like.

When you talk about mass-market and the pejorative "homebrew taste" it's important to see it from the BMC drinker's perspective.

 

[Brewer_Bob]

Wouldn't that "homebrew taste" actual mean good these days?

I think it is easy for us here at HBT to think that but we need to recognize that we are not the norm. Most homebrewers are not members here. Most homebrewers don’t read books on homebrewing. Most homebrewers don’t research the crap out of this hobby. We are a very self selected group here at HBT.

So while I would probably be safe in saying that most HBTers brew good beer most of the time, I wouldn’t feel as confident in saying that most homebrewers in general brew good beer.

I am sure there are multiple reasons for that such as a lack of understanding in temperature control and ignorance in recipe formulation, but I think the real culprit is sanitation. I think we would be surprised by the number of “unsophisticated” homebrewers out there who don’t sanitize after cleaning or even think that it is one in the same thing.