The Saison Thread

[RochesterAaron1]

Glad we have 2 of these 3 on tap in the basement right now, with another keg of Classique to follow soon

I tried to track down a sixtel of classique last week with no luck. At least all of my beer guys know I'm looking now.

 

[jupiter6xx]

Xpost from the DDT...
Everything I want in a beer. God I love this stuff.

 

[ilovestouts]

I've been trying to make sense of Casey Saisons. They're very light in body, yet this one seems to have a fuller mouth feel from honey?

 

[RochesterAaron1]

I was in Seattle for the first time this past weekend and snagged one of these at a shop before going to visit to the taproom. This bottle was great and definitely the best out of the three other saisons I tried at Holy Mountain (which I thought were good, but nothing special).

I assume it's gone, but which shop? My sister just moved to Seattle and I need to put together a list of places to send her Christmas shopping

 

[Aaron from the Wood]

I assume it's gone, but which shop? My sister just moved to Seattle and I need to put together a list of places to send her Christmas shopping

DeLaurenti Specialty Food & Wine at Pike Place. They seemed to have a nice selection of other local beer too.

 

[RochesterAaron1]

DeLaurenti Specialty Food & Wine at Pike Place. They seemed to have a nice selection of other local beer too.

Thanks!

 

[Brubaker1]

Summer Saison from Blackberry Farm out of Walland, TN.

Nice tropical hop flavors over a classic saison profile. Very enjoyable and refreshing, enough to go back and grab their Classic Saison. I also like the idea of drinking a farmhouse ale that was brewed on an actual farm. I wish it had a wild side, but everything is nicely balanced as-is.

Anyone know how widely this is distributed? Looking to include a bottle in a BIF. Has it founds its way to PNW?

 

[Der Fuchs]

Anyone know how widely this is distributed? Looking to include a bottle in a BIF. Has it founds its way to PNW?

pretty sure.

 

[holldy01]

Anyone know how widely this is distributed? Looking to include a bottle in a BIF. Has it founds its way to PNW?

pretty sure.

I didnt think they distribute yet?

 

[quirk6]

Anyone know how widely this is distributed? Looking to include a bottle in a BIF. Has it founds its way to PNW?

If this is accurate, no.

 

[Thorpe]

I didnt think they distribute yet?

If this is accurate, no.

They definitely distribute pretty widely at this point. Someone from the brewery said in the Saison Facebook Group that they're looking at Chicago for early 2016, which makes me quite excited.

 

[ASak10]

Yeah Blackberry Farms is all over Denver. Haven't picked up a bottle yet but sounds like I need to.

 

[holldy01]

They definitely distribute pretty widely at this point. Someone from the brewery said in the Saison Facebook Group that they're looking at Chicago for early 2016, which makes me quite excited.

Anyone know how widely this is distributed? Looking to include a bottle in a BIF. Has it founds its way to PNW?

TIFU I just looked at their website quickly which makes it sound like they dont distribute but a deeper look says they definitely do. Their website says that their beers can even be found in the PNW at least at restaurants.

 

[Brubaker1]

Thanks guys!

 

[Gonzoillini1]

Speaking of Blackberry Farms...

Drinking the Fall Saison Blackberry Farm from the sour, saison funk BIF. Biere de Garde like with a fair amount of malt character, phenolic spicy yeast character, light fruity esters, a nice hop bite. Heavier in body than the classic, and finishes a bit sweeter. Really tasty stuff that I'm glad I was turned on to. Cheers!

 

[Der Fuchs]

If this is accurate, no.

FYI that isn't accurate.

 

[The Red Viper]

Blackberry Farm is definitely in PNW. My PDX trading partner asked me about it when their stuff hit shops there recently. As to whether it's just classic or also the seasonally so far, I couldn't say.

 

[Kirkse]

Great Saison base perfectly balanced with Chardonnay barrel. Would love to cellar a few to let the Brett develop more. Too bad I'm leaving in a couple days

 

[LukeAleTime]

Great Saison base perfectly balanced with Chardonnay barrel. Would love to cellar a few to let the Brett develop more. Too bad I'm leaving in a couple days

I grabbed two bottles, haven't ticked my first but I love what these guys are doing. Did you try their brambic?

 

[Kirkse]

I grabbed two bottles, haven't ticked my first but I love what these guys are doing. Did you try their brambic?

Yeah, I had Brambic Last night. It was really nice. It's another one I'd love to see how it develops.

 

[LukeAleTime]

Yeah, I had Brambic Last night. It was really nice. It's another one I'd love to see how it develops.

Yeah I'm holding one of each for a few years.

 

[paysse1]

I really don't understand why anyone is making saisons without brett.

I know this kind of got covered already, but this thread has been awesome to read and I think there's another element here that is important but was skipped over.

This is all highly subjective and just my opinion. As a brewer, it's much more difficult to make a Sacch-only saison that is on par with the great 2nd Wave saisons (Dupont Vieille and Avril, Thiriez Extra, Blaugies Saison D'Epeautre, Cuvee de Jonquilles, and I'd include De Ranke XX as well) than it is to make a solid Brett saison. It's also a lot harder to make an unblended tart/acidic saison that has prominent hop character (to mimic a "traditional" saison that might have been originally highly hopped but acidified over time) than it is to make an acidic beer that is just lightly/un-hopped (which I personally would never call a saison).

Secondary Brett fermentation can cover a lot of sins. That's why it's impressive to see the skill and attention to detail with brewers like HF who can pull off balanced, drinkable, clean (ie: non-Brett/lacto) saisons that aren't sweet, spiced/adjunct, isoamyl acetate messes, but really beautiful and exciting renditions of the great Belgian beers, AND also do drier/funkier/tart renderings. And why it's impressive to see brewers like TH who can do really expressive mixed fermentation beers that maintain insane balance and showcase brett and lactic character without overwhelming what is clearly a primary saison fermentation character.

Brewing a sub-5% hoppy non-brett saison which is dry, but has body, is hoppy, but balances a nice fermentation profile... that's difficult. One of many reasons Thiriez Extra is an absolute brewing coup. Totally brilliant beer.

I know some folks in this thread seem to have come up on the 3rd wave beers, but those 2nd wave beers I referenced above created the modern saison style and kept it alive. They were the first saisons that influenced and inspired most of the people who are brewing the new 3rd Wave of saisons. They might not be funk factories, but if you spend some time with them you'll find that they are soulful, phenomenal beers.

 

[thunderbirdesq]

Xpost from the DDT...
Everything I want in a beer. God I love this stuff.

So sad I can't find this I have a distributor for Bfm but all they ever have in stock are $300 Abbaye kegs. Will have to order online someday, need to try.

 

[tosh1]

I had srs low expecations for this.

I was wrong, it was kind of awesome.

Will be getting more of these fuckers.

 

[archagon]

Brewing a sub-5% hoppy non-brett saison which is dry, but has body, is hoppy, but balances a nice fermentation profile... that's difficult. One of many reasons Thiriez Extra is an absolute brewing coup. Totally brilliant beer.

Interesting, I've gotta try this. Are hoppy saisons worth buying months after their bottling date? Or are they like IPAs, where they lose their fundamental character if you wait too long?

 

[drgarage1]

Interesting, I've gotta try this. Are hoppy saisons worth buying months after their bottling date? Or are they like IPAs, where they lose their fundamental character if you wait too long?

Depends on Brett or not. Brett fights oxidation, so hoppy Brett beers can hold up.

 

[paysse1]

Interesting, I've gotta try this. Are hoppy saisons worth buying months after their bottling date? Or are they like IPAs, where they lose their fundamental character if you wait too long?

Depends on Brett or not. Brett fights oxidation, so hoppy Brett beers can hold up.

The answer to the first question is: Absolutely yes. They are definitely worth buying. They do not age the same way IPAs and hoppy American styles do. Hoppy saisons, especially Belgian ones are those brewed in that style, age really, really nicely. Brett can affect how it ages, for sure, and those that don't have Brett are still usually bottle conditioned with Sacch, which also affects the aging, but I think there are other factors that are more important. Mostly, those beers are brewed with a totally different hopping style than most current hoppy pale/IPA type beers, which are brewed with high-Alpha hops, frequently given a clean bittering charge (or not) and then massively late hopped in the kettle and dry hopped in the fermentor. Beers like saisons from Dupont and Thiriez and au Baron and such are also massively hopped, but with low alpha hops, and the hopping style is more "traditional" kettle hops. Hops added boiled for longer will age out differently than whirlpool hops, and differently than dry hopping in the tank. The type of hops they use and style of hopping lends itself to the classic floral and grassy character we love in those saisons. Those beers are also built to age, and you'll find that an intensely hoppy beer brewed with low alpha hops which has a bit of age and whose hops are faded a bit tastes totally differently than a fresh beer with less hopping. The former style is, to me, a hallmark of the classic saison. Hop it to hell and then let it age out a bit.

This summer I bought a case of Thiriez Extra that was probably 3-4 months old, tasted phenomenal when I got it. I drank about a bottle a week over the summer. By the end of the case it was still tasting great, all the bottle just stored in my basement at maybe 60 degrees fahrenheit.

 

[ncaudle]

That's why it's impressive to see the skill and attention to detail with brewers like HF who can pull off balanced, drinkable, clean (ie: non-Brett/lacto) saisons that aren't sweet, spiced/adjunct, isoamyl acetate messes, but really beautiful and exciting renditions of the great Belgian beers, AND also do drier/funkier/tart renderings.

what non-brett/lacto saison from HF are you referring to?
I'm struggling to think of any non-brett saisons from HF (can think of 1 or 2 without LAB but not brett)

 

[paysse1]

what non-brett/lacto saison from HF are you referring to?
I'm struggling to think of any non-brett saisons from HF (can think of 1 or 2 without LAB but not brett)

Florence comes to mind as the one I most recently had, although I've had others in the past that had similar profiles. I didn't plate the dregs or talk to the brewer, but there was no apparent Brett character to my taste and the attenuation was consistent with not having Brett.

 

[ncaudle]

Florence comes to mind as the one I most recently had, although I've had others in the past that had similar profiles. I didn't plate the dregs or talk to the brewer, but there was no apparent Brett character to my taste and the attenuation was consistent with not having Brett.

interesting...

rwitter can you confirm if Florence has brett in it?