Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

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How did CSI become the leading poster on this thread?

Isn't saq the one with the greatest success brewing a recipe versus Westvleteren 12? I'm brewing a clone next week and I'm going to follow the original post from saq (i.e. post #1) for the New World Version. Adjusted for my system but otherwise, note for note.

Thank you in advance saq. I'm really excited about this one.
 
ayoungrad said:
How did CSI become the leading poster on this thread?

Isn't saq the one with the greatest success brewing a recipe versus Westvleteren 12? I'm brewing a clone next week and I'm going to follow the original post from saq (i.e. post #1) for the New World Version. Adjusted for my system but otherwise, note for note.

Thank you in advance saq. I'm really excited about this one.
Click to expand...

The last time we spoke Aaron (saq) moved for a new job further out West (withholding exact specifics). Sorry about having so much input. After brewing this one and it's variations 37 times over a few years it's hard not to be excited about it. I think we've had a little success :).
 
Too bad about saq.

And given that, I think it's great that you've taken over.

Great thread.
 
CSI said:
The last time we spoke Aaron (saq) moved for a new job further out West (withholding exact specifics). Sorry about having so much input. After brewing this one and it's variations 37 times over a few years it's hard not to be excited about it. I think we've had a little success :).
Click to expand...

Your input to this thread and the pursuit of truly representative Belgian ales has been invaluable. Obviously, this person didn't take 5min to read a few pages of this thread and quickly revealed his ignorance.
 
I can feel the love in the room.

My comment was based on the fact that I was hoping to hear more from saq. Nothing more.
 
ayoungrad said:
Too bad about saq.

And given that, I think it's great that you've taken over.

Great thread.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good word although I think the thread is team driven. We've adopted a number of saq's techniques and he adopted a few of ours as well. I hope he'll find the time to get back on the board. His input is missed.
 
Does it matter if I delay the last fermentation step (7 weeks at 50F)? My chamber was broken and I wasn't able to bring down to 50 until about 8 weeks after transferring to secondary.


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The St. Sixtus monks state that they bottle as soon as the yeast flocculates in cooler temps. Sometimes it's 3 weeks sometimes longer. I've noticed that a well oxygenated starter and wort results in faster flocc times. Less healthy yeast tends to suspend longer. I would say that as long as it's not sitting on an old yeast cake it should be fine.
 
Thank you for your reply CSI. It will stay in my ferm chamber then!


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CSI said:
Yes, we always re-yeast on bottle conditioning. I think it's 50 billion cells per 5Gal but you can check our recipe section for specifics.
Click to expand...

Didn't see any specifics on this in the first post. Hope I didn't miss something.

Do you use Belgian yeast to re-yeast? I've heard some people say Champagne yeast. This is my first time re-yeasting, so I'm a little unsure of the process.

I plan to cold crash my keg, pull a few pints to get rid of any trub, pop open my keg, add the sugar and yeast, close it back up, repressurize, roll it around for awhile, and bottle directly from the keg.j

Is that right?
 
b-boy said:
Do you use Belgian yeast to re-yeast? I've heard some people say Champagne yeast. This is my first time re-yeasting, so I'm a little unsure of the process.
Click to expand...
the beer is already at the ale yeast's upper limit. i'd go with a champagne yeast.

b-boy said:
I plan to cold crash my keg, pull a few pints to get rid of any trub, pop open my keg, add the sugar and yeast, close it back up, repressurize, roll it around for awhile, and bottle directly from the keg.
Click to expand...
you can do it that way, however a cleaner way of doing it is to mix the priming sugar in the beer, bottle immediately, and let the yeast consume the sugar inside the bottles. that way the beer is still flat, instead of cramming carbonated beer into bottles.

here's a great priming sugar calculator: http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/ (for temperature, enter the max temp at which you fermented)
 
sweetcell said:
the beer is already at the ale yeast's upper limit. i'd go with a champagne yeast.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear that. Especially since I just bought Champagne yeast.:D

sweetcell said:
you can do it that way, however a cleaner way of doing it is to mix the priming sugar in the beer, bottle immediately, and let the yeast consume the sugar inside the bottles. that way the beer is still flat, instead of cramming carbonated beer into bottles.

here's a great priming sugar calculator: http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/ (for temperature, enter the max temp at which you fermented)
Click to expand...

Actually, the beer will be uncarbonated when I bottle. I will add the sugar to the flat beer in the keg I'm using for cold conditioning, add the yeast, shake it up to mix, then bottle from the keg.
 
Just a question. If you have a keg and are planning on bottling from it, I'm assuming you have CO2, so why don't you force carb?


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b-boy said:
Didn't see any specifics on this in the first post. Hope I didn't miss something.

Do you use Belgian yeast to re-yeast? I've heard some people say Champagne yeast. This is my first time re-yeasting, so I'm a little unsure of the process.

I plan to cold crash my keg, pull a few pints to get rid of any trub, pop open my keg, add the sugar and yeast, close it back up, repressurize, roll it around for awhile, and bottle directly from the keg.j

Is that right?
Click to expand...

We always use Westmalle for bottling. This is the BLAM spec. Using champagne yeast should work also.
 
PJoyce85 said:
Just a question. If you have a keg and are planning on bottling from it, I'm assuming you have CO2, so why don't you force carb?


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Click to expand...

If keeping it kegged for 6-12 months is manageable it should be fine. Our goals are probably different, (to replicate Trappist method). Kegging in theory should produce a good result over time. We've just never done it. Maybe we need to try f/c and keg aging? Forced carbing should give you a lot of control.
 
b-boy said:
Actually, the beer will be uncarbonated when I bottle. I will add the sugar to the flat beer in the keg I'm using for cold conditioning, add the yeast, shake it up to mix, then bottle from the keg.
Click to expand...
ah, i see, you're essentially using your keg as a bottling bucket. i wouldn't shake it in the keg to mix the yeast, unless you purge really well with O2 first. otherwise you're maximizing oxidation when you mix.

i don't think that you need to worry that much about mixing the yeast. if you can get the beer to swirl as it goes in the keg, that will be enough to distribute the yeast. you could also use a sanitized metal spoon to gently mix... would be better than shaking.
 
CSI said:
Concur :)
Click to expand...

I have over 30 kegs. Will be aging in one once I get off my arse and brew the recipe. Should have it brewed within the next month and living in carboys for the first few months... Will be a 15 gallon batch. 10 will be bottled and one 5 will be keg aged for comparison. May have to donate some to CSI for reference...
 
FredTheNuke said:
I have over 30 kegs. Will be aging in one once I get off my arse and brew the recipe. Should have it brewed within the next month and living in carboys for the first few months... Will be a 15 gallon batch. 10 will be bottled and one 5 will be keg aged for comparison. May have to donate some to CSI for reference...
Click to expand...

Very interested in that outcome.
 
I finally got this bottled yesterday. I snuck a glass during the bottling process. Wow - really good! I can't believe how much this beer changed during the cold conditioning phase.

I'm looking forward to the final product in about 2-3 months.
 
I brewed roughly the traditional decoction recipe back in April '13, and bottled in July '13. I ended up using the supposed Duvel yeast strain, WY1388 as I brewed a Golden Strong the same day.

I've consumed 7 or 8 bottles as they age. I can say it turned a corner from good to REALLY good just within the last month. The stone fruit came forward at ~ 4 months in bottle, the yeast flavors rounded out around 5 months in bottle, and the malty flavor really has taken on depth just recently (similar to a WeeHeavy in that regard). Just a hint of roast to balance it all out. Fantastic! I'm so glad I have most of the batch still in bottles.
 
Yep. Our Westy 12 clones hit ideal at about 9 months and if stored at cellar temps get better from there. We have some that are 3 years in bottle conditioning and are exceptional. One interesting note. Those clones bittered with Northern Brewer lose all hop traces after about 14 months. Those bittered with Brewers Gold maintain a notable hop profile even after 36 months.
 
Looking at the recipe and reading BLAM regarding fermentation temp start around 68 finish around the 80s.

Do you guys use temp control and raise a couple degrees a day or do you pitch at mid 60s and place it in a room at low 70s and let the yeast rise naturally



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Generally, yes. Actually, I just set it at 78 or so and run the whole fermentation at that temp.


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tellyho said:
Generally, yes. Actually, I just set it at 78 or so and run the whole fermentation at that temp.


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Click to expand...


Yikes 78 i would think the beer would jump to almost 90 degrees at that high of an ambient temperature. Do get any hot alcohols or band-aide flavor


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You honestly probably don't want to pay attention to me, as I try not to be too fussy about this stuff. I have no time to change temperatures in my ferm chamber. I'm on my second batch of this and have been more than happy with the results.


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Wish I would've known about this thread before I put together a recipe for a clone. See, I've never actually had a Westy 12 so I had no foundation to really go from other than SRM, OG, FG, and a selection of applicable hops so I guessed from the info I could dig up. My recipe definitely will not resemble a clone after reading ingredients but should still finish as a nice beer. In case anyone cares, here's the bill:

12# Belgian Pale (68.6%)
1 1/2# Special B (8.6%)
1# Aromatic (5.7%)
1# Munich 30L (5.7%)
Adjuncts total 16.2% of fermentables
1oz Northern Brewer 60m
1oz Hallertauer 30m
1oz Styrian Goldings 20m
3# Dark Candi Sugar at flameout (tried to find D-180 locally, no luck)
1 vial WLP 530

I crush at .030 and do a double crush. Mashed in at 1.5qt/lb at 148 for 90 min with single infusion, had 1°F temp drop. Ran a batch sparge with 170°F water, collected 29L of wort. 90 min boil, transferred 23L of 1.090 wort into the fermentor. Pitched a starter (probably too small) at 64°F and within 18 hours I was fighting with extreme blow off. I ferment in a 8gal bucket with just shy of a 9gal capacity total and ran out of head space even though I had about 5" of room. Ended up blowing the lid after clogging the lock, lost some yeast on the floor, switched to a blow tube but still had some issues blowing the lid. It calmed down over the next 8 hours and I went back to the airlock to save space.

Brewed and pitched 2/19 at about 6p on the pitch. Took a reading today 2/23 at around 11a and am down to 1.042. Have a feeling I'll have to battle a stuck ferm but prepared for it with harvested yeast from the top that I'll grow and repitch if needed. I recently got a 5L jug to do bigger starters in but forgot to use the damn thing this time.. Definitely won't be a true clone but will try one in the future.

That main thing that was irritating is that I expected to find D-180 but no luck in Portland, OR which is a bit amusing considering it's Beervana. I prefer to pick up ingredients locally so I was not prepared to sub something else for the adjuncts. If CSI knows a place in Portland that carries their products I would love to know. Worst case scenario is I'll just order it online in advance for future brews. This one is obviously far from done so I won't clog the thread anymore and hell, this post probably isn't relevant but any feedback on the grain bill would be good in terms of what kind of profile to expect.

Sent from my super rad tablet device thingy.
 
I brewed this a couple weeks ago and it's in secondary now. I will be kegging it. What my question is. How is this suppose to taste I have never had the original so I have nothing to compare to.


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b-boy said:
I'd recommend going to a beer store and picking up a few Quads. It won't be exactly the same, but it will give you an idea on flavor. Try Chimay Blue or ABT 12 maybe?
Click to expand...

Abt 12 is the same recipe just different water profile.

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My fermentation got stuck at 1.030 but was able to pitch more yeast that was harvested from the blowoff to get it down to 1.019 but it looks like that is about as good as I'll get. Puts it around 9.4 abv so not sure it falls under a quad, but the flavor is nice. Tastes a bit similar to Abt 12 and Rochefort 10 but they are all a bit different in their own ways. It definitely isn't as dark in color, but that will be corrected in the next batch as I have acquired some D-180 and will give this another go in the next month or so. The flavors will also change from the D-180 compared to the syrup I used in this batch.
 
I get this beer to finish dry (1.012) by starting my mash low (at protein rest temps) and then raise to mid-140s and then gradually increase to 148-149 and let it mash for an hour, then let it slowly rise through low 150s for 20-25 minutes...and then ramp it up to 170 for your sparge. This is a rich beer and finishing low is, in my opinion, the way to make it great instead of just good.

The other thing that I do that I think makes it a better beer (for me anyway) is to add some chocolate malt (4-5 ounces in 15 gallon batch: it seems to balance the malt bill and alcohol sweetness. I increase hops about 10% above the CSI recipe, too, for the same reason.
 

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