The New Brew Shed aka The Lady Cave

[Onkel_Udo]

WHAT !!!! What do you mean? Shop class? Here in Montana it's standard. I can't imagine it not being a standard part of every person's education.

So many schools are focusing on teaching to the test these days, many schools have opt'ed not to have anything not on the SAT's/ACT's or required as Phys Ed requirement. Even Driver's Ed, Home Ec and Art classes ended up "non-funded".

As the only non-educator in a family of educators, I am appalled. Before becoming a stay-at-home mom, my mother taught Home Ec and has since run a successful small business and later went back for a Master's and worked on a DARPA project. Watching this "skills-based" educational options die shames me.

That being said, for students who excelled, my HS offered the option of taking freshmen-level college course or Vo-Tech classes as substitutes for any non-core ciriculum items.

 

[1975brewer]

You had the right idea with drywall. Its inexpensive & easy to install. I can't imagine how you would knock holes in it just brewing beer. The FRP panels are great but are not designed to be hung directly on the studs you still need a suitable surface under the panels. Do the drywall first and then decide if you want to cover it with a more washable surface.

 

[Hello]

You had the right idea with drywall. Its inexpensive & easy to install. I can't imagine how you would knock holes in it just brewing beer. The FRP panels are great but are not designed to be hung directly on the studs you still need a suitable surface under the panels. Do the drywall first and then decide if you want to cover it with a more washable surface.

Okay, so sticking with the original plan. I know there's just straight up drywall in my kitchen, I found that out the hard way. But the walls clean up fine with the gloss. I would use semi gloss in the brewery because there's really no oil and stuff splashing around. As far as holes, I've poked one hole in my drywall by accident in 4 years. I threw a framed photo in the trash but it banked off the wall and made a triangle shaped hole. I tossed it with some...enthusiasm.

I appreciate all of the advice, I just felt overwhelmed not understanding the material. I don't have time to hit up home depot where the hands on experience would be something I'd understand a bit more. I also gutted my powder room and tore the drywall down and just used the stuff I linked even though there's no shower or anything. I used cement board under the tile I laid.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I appreciate all of the advice, I just felt overwhelmed not understanding the material. I don't have time to hit up home depot where the hands on experience would be something I'd understand a bit more. I also gutted my powder room and tore the drywall down and just used the stuff I linked even though there's no shower or anything. I used cement board under the tile I laid.

Your plan is absolutely fine, the water board is perfect and if for some reason it gets super funked up... it's easy enough to cut a damaged section out and replace it. Wish you didn't live so far away, I'd have that thing finished for you already so you could make me some awesome beer :cross:

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Twas' only a suggestion. But the thought process was;

- rigid insul. provides adquate underlayment for FRP and is less prone to sagging/breakdown of batt insul. also negating need for sheetrock/tape/bed/texture et al.
- FRP could simply be glued to wall studs.
- FRP is prefinished and washable. Thus negating paint.
- Cost is most likely a wash between what one needs and what the other does not need.
- Furthermore, if shed ever needs to be moved in future FRP adds less weight to total structure.

However, color selection is limited.

 

[DNKDUKE]

Thank you for the links. This is what helps a lot. The issue though is budget. Those FRP wall boards are 3x the price of mold resistant sheetrock. I don't know why I shouldn't use it though (@DNKDUKE). I would be using semi gloss paint, easy enough to wipe down. This is all electric so I'm not near an open flame. I'd like to keep the finish reasonable. Between the shed, electric and brewery stuff, I'm in deep. I'm not sure why sheetrock and gloss paint won't work like it seems to in my kitchen. Also, don't I need to have some kind of backing first then install the wallboard or is wallboard, even the thrifty one linked above in place of the drywall and goes right over the insulation?

I appreciate the help and if I have to spend $30-$45 on a 4x8 piece of wallboard, then so be it. But it seems excessive. Well, and I didn't intend to have white walls.

Don't get me wrong - sheetrock with gloss paint will work and work well.
I look at the hanging the board - taping the seams - 2nd coat of mud - primer paint - colour paint - maybe a 2nd coat - wipe, wipe, wipe, scrub, scrub - worn out paint - Then in a couple of years re-paint.

It's kind of like what everyone says about electric brewing - larger initial investment for years of worry free (kinda) brewing.

What ever decision you make will be the right one.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

You had the right idea with drywall. Its inexpensive & easy to install. I can't imagine how you would knock holes in it just brewing beer. The FRP panels are great but are not designed to be hung directly on the studs you still need a suitable surface under the panels. Do the drywall first and then decide if you want to cover it with a more washable surface.

I may be some sort of Neanderthal but I have knocked holes in kitchen walls just cooking.

There really is nothing wrong with starting with drywall as long as you understand that i may only be a base for something else from the start. If that proves wrong, all the better. At the very least used Densarmor or similar for the wet areas. It is about $3-4 per panel more and the installer will charge you about 10-15% more to install is but the "paper" is completely impervious to water unlike water resistant green or blue board.

 

[edroberts]

So I've said the words "lady cave" a number of times and it was never pointed out to me how dirty that sounds. I'm going with it though!

Lady-cave. That's something I can get behind.

Okay. I digress... and apologize. I couldn't help myself.

If you are really truly concerned with drywall warping with moisture, you could always add some sort of ventilation and/or possibly an inexpensive backsplash on the wall behind your induction burners. If you are brewing when you can't open the windows, ventilation will probably be needed in a space that small anyway.

 

[Hello]

I see now. I missed the ridged insulation which acts as a backer of sorts for FRP. Lightbulbs going off right now!

 

[Hello]

Lady-cave. That's something I can get behind.

Okay. I digress... and apologize. I couldn't help myself.

If you are really truly concerned with drywall warping with moisture, you could always add some sort of ventilation and/or possibly an inexpensive backsplash on the wall behind your induction burners. If you are brewing when you can't open the windows, ventilation will probably be needed in a space that small anyway.

Oh I am installing a 440CFM vent fan. It'll end up with only one bend and the duct will be less than 2' long.

 

[McKnuckle]

Don't underestimate the moisture that will occur from simple exposure to the elements. You aren't planning to dehumidify the space, I imagine, or employ climate control (AC/heat). Mold and other nasties can develop just from exposure to natural humidity over time. Go with the full gloss paint and use bathroom type drywall.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I see now. I missed the ridged insulation which acts as a backer of sorts for FRP. Lightbulbs going off right now!

Sorry, I have been in the building industry far too long and take for granted that some things are not obvious.

Yes, the rigid insul would provide a backer for the FRP. It would also be less prone to saturation from the humidity of brewing and can be cut with a bread knife meaning you could do it yourself.

The only caveat is the available thickness. The Lowes/HD stuff (1") is not thick enough to fill the cavity the depth of a stud (3.5") thus you will need to build up the thickness, block out the cavity, special order the thicker product, or find a building supply that does stock a thicker panel.

 

[1975brewer]

My advice has to be the same as given to many new brewers KEEP IT SIMPLE. Drywall & paint when it gets worn you can repaint or do something else.

Also, don't I need to have some kind of backing first then install the wallboard or is wallboard, even the thrifty one linked above in place of the drywall and goes right over the insulation?

Your are right about this economy wall board its only 1/8' thick & its not rated for moist areas.

 

[Remmy]

Water. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425068333.370346.jpg

Being fat and ordering Chinese. Too lazy to cook

 

[TheCADJockey]

^^^ Ok, now that is funny...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

^^^ Ok, now that is funny...

Not sure if serious or thot was in "what are you drinking now" thread.

 

[beernbourbon]

But it seems excessive.

....says the one buying a shed that she wouldn't normally buy for any other reason LOL

Well done, regardless. Kind of making me rethink my own ideas on which direction to go with the 'brewhouse' at the new place (aka-much cheaper)..... I'ma likin it !!

 

[Onkel_Udo]

OK, let's all take a breathe on the interior wall covering...even me.

Your climate, having lived 8 years in Raleigh, is as follows (from memory):

Cool to cold winters but not severe cold nor particularly high percipitation
Mild Fall
Spring is mild but variable humidty year over year but 10-20" rain and relative humidity in the 80's
Summer is warm not particularly hot (rare days over 95 degrees) with relative humidity in the 70's

So if your fermentation chamber fridge and keezer are kicking out mad BTU's in summer fall and spring, you will have no environmental issues with moisture when idle.

If your vent fan runs for a minimum of 30-45 minutes after the brew session is completely over and you have "pre-heated" your brew space with a space heater (electric) you will have no environmental issues if all standing water is cleaned up.

So this goes back to the active "spray" in the brewing process. Clean it up 90% of your potential issues go away. Make sure to have the drywall installer hold the drywall off the finished floor a minimum of 1/2", use densarmor if you can and make sure to use a quality high-solids latex paint. At the very least, use a waterproof baseboard of either PVC or vinyl.

This is not a place for fiberglass insulation if it can be avoided unless you put a moisture barrier on the inside of a wall (the opposite of what your climate dictates). Rock wool, rigid, or at the very least encapsulated fiberglass. If nothing else, use the fan-fold 1/4" insulation normally used under exterior siding under the the drywall after the fiberglass is put in.

OK, rant over

 

[DNKDUKE]

ok, let's all take a breathe on the interior wall covering...even me.

Your climate, having lived 8 years in raleigh, is as follows (from memory):

Cool to cold winters but not severe cold nor particularly high percipitation
mild fall
spring is mild but variable humidty year over year but 10-20" rain and relative humidity in the 80's
summer is warm not particularly hot (rare days over 95 degrees) with relative humidity in the 70's

so if your fermentation chamber fridge and keezer are kicking out mad btu's in summer fall and spring, you will have no environmental issues with moisture when idle.

If your vent fan runs for a minimum of 30-45 minutes after the brew session is completely over and you have "pre-heated" your brew space with a space heater (electric) you will have no environmental issues if all standing water is cleaned up.

So this goes back to the active "spray" in the brewing process. Clean it up 90% of your potential issues go away. Make sure to have the drywall installer hold the drywall off the finished floor a minimum of 1/2", use densarmor if you can and make sure to use a quality high-solids latex paint. At the very least, use a waterproof baseboard of either pvc or vinyl.

This is not a place for fiberglass insulation if it can be avoided unless you put a moisture barrier on the inside of a wall (the opposite of what your climate dictates). Rock wool, rigid, or at the very least encapsulated fiberglass. If nothing else, use the fan-fold 1/4" insulation normally used under exterior siding under the the drywall after the fiberglass is put in.

Ok, rant over

agree.
Dnk

 

[steveoatley]

Thank you for the links. This is what helps a lot. The issue though is budget. Those FRP wall boards are 3x the price of mold resistant sheetrock. I don't know why I shouldn't use it though (@DNKDUKE). I would be using semi gloss paint, easy enough to wipe down. This is all electric so I'm not near an open flame. I'd like to keep the finish reasonable. Between the shed, electric and brewery stuff, I'm in deep. I'm not sure why sheetrock and gloss paint won't work like it seems to in my kitchen. Also, don't I need to have some kind of backing first then install the wallboard or is wallboard, even the thrifty one linked above in place of the drywall and goes right over the insulation?

I appreciate the help and if I have to spend $30-$45 on a 4x8 piece of wallboard, then so be it. But it seems excessive. Well, and I didn't intend to have white walls.

Hello,

I put the MDF Thrift panel over r-13 Fiberglass Insulation - in a detached garage. Kind of like your shed, just 480 sq ft and one giant door.
I did it for two reasons,
1- I did not have to paint it.
2- I can wipe it down. It's not water proof by any means - just water resistant

From a past detached garage that I had drywalled, I learned that muck and water that drips off my car, will stain even a painted drywall surface.

Since I am in Michigan, and you are not - your results may vary.

We have 3 ft of snow surrounding the garage right now - there is water in the air, even at 10F. My hope is that during this summer the MDF will dry out
when temps hit 120F in the garage - with only passive ventilation.
And everything will be better, no more wavy walls....
The MDF may work fine for your application.

That being said......

I am also planning a Electric Basement brewery of my own, I start next month.
I plan on having FRP on the walls - with Closed cell foam insulation & a vapor barrier behind it.

I think the concerns over moisture are correct for your shed.
Because it is small..... and enclosed, and will have other 'item's creating heat.
I can open my garage door while I brew, and have no concern for condensation.

My plan for my basement brewery is Big fan, FRP on the walls & ceiling.
Epoxy the floor, squeegee to the drain, as my Basement is an extension of my living space, I have a lot more concerns about moisture.

Try the Green Board, if you have adequate ventilation it may work for you !

The temperature difference between the inside of your Shed & the outside cold air is really what will dictate how much Condensation/moisture you need to worry about !!

Steve

 

[TheCADJockey]

I stand by my previous suggestion to plaster that entire interior with the sick-nastyest linoleum you can find. Work it.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I stand by my previous suggestion to plaster that entire interior with the sick-nastyest linoleum you can find. Work it.

It's a lady cave. Full body latex required until you get familiar.

Wait, what?

 

[1975brewer]

Can I ask why you thing it's necessary to avoid fiberglass insulation.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Can I ask why you thing it's necessary to avoid fiberglass insulation.

Probably because it looks like cotton candy, but tastes like burning.

 

[1975brewer]

I prefer a good home brew over a glass of fiber glass myself

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Can I ask why you thing it's necessary to avoid fiberglass insulation.

It is hard to explain without seriously geeking out but it basically humid air condenses through multiple strati in the insulation. Works well as part of a "system" of air infiltration (control), insulation and vapor transmission. When used incorrectly it is a loose collection of nucleation sites for vapor to condense, travel down the fibers, pool on the bottom plate and cause rot and mold.

If you control vapor migration from the inside of the shed toward the outside, fiberglass is fine. The issue really is that in that climate, you would normally be controlling the infiltration of vapor from the EXTERIOR to the interior.

 

[Hello]

Can you link me to a product that can be used that isn't fiberglass?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Can you link me to a product that can be used that isn't fiberglass?

Since you live in a temperate climate, a lot of the "easy" options won't be common but here is the easiest homeowner installed route:

Common unfaced R11 fiberglass in the walls http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Co...n-M41Q/202519278?N=5yc1vZbay7Z1z0uukvZ1z0zvdl
1/2" or 3/4" closed cell foam on top of the studs http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rmax-R-M...nsulation-Board-754404/100572981?N=5yc1vZbaxx
Tape the seams with this http://www.homedepot.com/p/TYVEK-HomeWrap-2-in-x-164-ft-Installation-Tape-D13841470/100422453
Wall covering of your choice over the top

 

[Hello]

Since you live in a temperate climate, a lot of the "easy" options won't be common but here is the easiest homeowner installed route:

Common unfaced R11 fiberglass in the walls http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Co...n-M41Q/202519278?N=5yc1vZbay7Z1z0uukvZ1z0zvdl
1/2" or 3/4" closed cell foam on top of the studs http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rmax-R-M...nsulation-Board-754404/100572981?N=5yc1vZbaxx
Tape the seams with this http://www.homedepot.com/p/TYVEK-HomeWrap-2-in-x-164-ft-Installation-Tape-D13841470/100422453
Wall covering of your choice over the top

Wall covering, so not paint? Right?
I'll talk to my guy. The insulation board and unfazed insulation is not available within 100 miles of me. I didn't check outside of that range. I am also unable to order online. So I'll see what can happen.

Is standard sheetrock okay in houses because the exterior has a vapor barrier? Is that the only difference?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Wall covering, so not paint? Right?
I'll talk to my guy. The insulation board and unfazed insulation is not available within 100 miles of me. I didn't check outside of that range. I am also unable to order online. So I'll see what can happen.

Is standard sheetrock okay in houses because the exterior has a vapor barrier? Is that the only difference?

Those were just examples...I am 90% sure similar is available as these are really common materials.

If all else fails, just tell "your guy" to put a continuous vapor barrier on after insulating (normally just a heavish black or clear plastic with taped seams)...but you really want unfaced fiberglass when you put a separate vapor barrier in.

Regular sheetrock is OK because it really is part of a building system. I think the best way to understand it is that moisture does get inside walls. It has to have way out. How it gets out is normally dictated my the climate. In your climate, the primary concern is migration of water vapor from inside to outside.