The Minstrel - A crazy, funky 100% brett fermented beer

[scray24]

Dumb-lucked across this thread as I was doing some research on Brett in Carnevale.

IMO - Avery 15 has tons of funk but not much sour. The reason being is that its 100% brett fermented, the ones you list (Rodenbach, La Folie, Duchesse) are fermented heavily with bugs (lacto/pedio/etc/etc/etc) and the bugs are what drive the majority of the acidity/sourness not Brett. You can get some pineapple and other citrus from certain Brett strains but a 100% Brett fermented beer MAY not be anything like a sour. Funky - hell yes but not necessarily sour.

Carnevale and Boulevard's Brett-Saison are both bottle conditioned with Brett so the funkiness isn't over the top. Additionally, I think its debatable how many "unfermentable" sugars Brett will really tear into - its often the accompanying bugs that do the dirty work of breaking down the polysaccarides/dextrines.

How's this one going? I've got a pale that I fermented with a blend of saison yeast (565/3726 and brett) that got a culture of RR Consecration added to it and its sitting in the secondary waiting for fall. The second batch I put in on top of this was a dark one and it ended up much more sour and much less funk than the first one.

From what I've heard, if you're going for sour - use the Roeselare blend from Wyeast does something similar. With each subsequent pitch it gets more and more sour to the point of undrinkability after about 4-5 pitches.

 

[saq]

Little status update. Theres some thin krausen at the top and its bubbling away going slowly. Did an OG check today and I'm at 1.058. Tasting a little funky. Guess this one is going to go slow.

I hope this turns out well as making some traditional ales styles with funky brett seems like a fun new realm of possibilities. Brett Stout, Brett IPA, Brett Barleywine, Brett Quadruple, etc.

Also, scray24, thats a good point of funk and sour. Though with as sour as some of the beers I listed are, its going to be hard to do a good funk comparison.

Also, I just finished reading "Wild Brews", which is a totally fantastic book, and I'm lead to believe that brett actually does have a lot to do with how sour things get, but is definitely nearly the sole provider of the funk.
I used to think the lacto and pedio were the big guys that contribute to sour characteristics, and while they do certainly contribute some, it seems that the brett when working under superattenuation characters really throws a lot out.

 

[saq]

Another update here.
Turned my fridge temp up to 78f on 5/29/09 and the beer definitely woke up.
SG of 1.034, Brett likes the heat!

Aroma: Barely noticable funk sits on top a tiny note of fresh lightly sour frutiness.

Flavor: Very sweet still, a little sour at the same time. Kind of like a really ripe peach! A little funkyness, and maybe a little rye character? This is going to be interesting...

 

[scray24]

Thanks for the update Saq, interesting stuff.

+1 on the "wild brews" for anyone interested in this sort of brewing, another great resource that has been helpful to me is the madfermentationist.blogspot.com.

I tried one of the pale sours last night and its definitely coming around - still lots of dominant brett character but getting more sour as well.

 

[flyangler18]

another great resource that has been helpful to me is the madfermentationist.blogspot.com.

Michael is a member here - Oldsock

 

[saq]

Michael is a member here - Oldsock

Yeah, I noticed that recently! He's a great guy.

 

[scray24]

+1 on that, Michael is/was incredibly helpful when I was trying to concoct my first sour/wild experiments over on BA homebrew forum and put up with a ton of noob questions.

 

[saq]

Took a gravity reading, 1.020. Tastes fairly tart and flowery, I think some of the tartness is from the elderflower. Going to warm up my 1lbs of date sugar and dump it in!

 

[z987k]

I hope this turns out well as making some traditional ales styles with funky brett seems like a fun new realm of possibilities. Brett Stout, Brett IPA, Brett Barleywine, Brett Quadruple, etc.

Well I'm going to beat you to the punch on the Brett Quad. Ordered Brett C. today as I like the description over the other species.

Profile: Isolated from English stock ale, this wild yeast produces a mild Brett character with overtones of tropical fruit and and pineapple. It ferments best in worts with a reduced pH after primary fermentation has begun. May form a pellicle in bottles or casks. Typically used in conjunction with other yeast and lactic acid bacteria.

I like the idea of the tropical fruit and pineapple in a quad.

So all brett C quad, here's my idea on the grain bill:
Mash Temp: 155
OG: (1.095)
FG: 1.015-18
SRM: 18*
IBU: 26
16.25lbs Belgian Plisner
1.5lbs Amber Candy Sugar
.75lb CaraMunich
.5lb Wheat
.3lb Aromatic
.25lb Special B
1.5oz Styrian Golding @ 5.3% 60mins
.5oz Styrian Golding @ 5.3% 5mins
Yeast: Wyeast Brettanomyces Claussenii

Hoping for 75-80% attenuation which is what brett C alone seems to do. Hopefully in 6months or so it'll be ready to bottle. I get my hops in on Wednesday so I might be brewing this as early as then.
Also going to try my best to mimic a Belgian water profile(probably Antwerp), don't want the brett picking something in the water to ruin something I'm putting this much time and $$ into.

Maybe we'll have to do a trade. Especially if there's some other all brett beers being made.

 

[saq]

You might want to ferment your beer w/brett at a fairly warm temperature, when I had ambient temp at 60f it was pretty much stalled but when I brought it up to about 70f ambient it was pretty lively. Good luck!

 

[saq]

Well I think the beer is done, its down to 1.008 and tastes pretty damn good! The flavors really have come together to something really good. Its somewhat funky, a little sour, and a little tart (elderflowers I guess). Its 10% and a little on the sweet side, but the body is pretty light and drinkable.
Soon as I get a keg open up I'm gonna transfer it in and carb it up.

 

[scray24]

Good to hear an update. Couple questions:

Did you transfer to a secondary or leave it in the primary this entire time?

Did you ferment completely in glass or in plastic or mix?

Do you have a keg dedicated to wild/funk/sour?

 

[saq]

I left mine in the primary for the whole time. Did about 3 weeks at 60f and then took it outside of my fermenter and have done about 3 weeks at 80f. It is MUCH happier at 80f.

I've had the whole thing in a better bottle dedicated to sours.

I don't have a keg dedicated to wild stuff. Full disassemble, pressure wash rinse, then a soak with BLC with a boiling water rinse and starsan will take care of anything.

 

[z987k]

Wow, this is just a touch over a month later... you think it's done fermenting?

Did you put an oak dowel or anything to allow O2 to get in and the brett form a pellicle or did you do the whole thing anaerobic?

 

[saq]

I'm at about 88% apparant attenuation, its done. All brett beers can and usually act just like regular beers and probably even finish faster. Its the sour bugs like lactobacillus and pediococus etc that get brett to super-attenuate.
If you use an airlock you can get a pretty good amount of oxygen absorption through the water in the airlock.

 

[saq]

Just kegged this bad boy today. 1.006 FG with no apparant activity for quite some time, everything had dropped down to the bottom. The tartness/sourness of the brett marries well with the flowery/fruity flavors from the elderflowers, and the rye character marries well with the date sugar. At 10.5% its a hell of a saison one that has some real sour characters (not like a flanders sour though) too not like the Bruery one that use brett and don't have much noticable sour characteristics.
Its chilling right now in the kegorator with a little pressure in it, should have it carbonated by this weekend.

 

[z987k]

any fruity aroma and flavors from the brett? Particularly the pineapple that they say Brett C makes?

From white labs:
"In April of 2004 we conducted an experiment at Pizza Port in Solana Beach and brewed Moe Betta Bretta, a 100% Brettanomyces Anomolus Fermentation. This collaborative beer developed and brewed with Peter Bouckaert of New Belgium Brewing Co. tested the potential for 100% Brettanomyces Anomolus fermentations. The finished product was quite aromatic with notes of pineapple and passion fruit. A much more reserved quality of barnyard esters was perceived due to the Anomolus fermentation."
Brett A is very closely related to Brett C and sine I can't find Brett A I went with C, but do you feel your beer came out with some of the same characteristics?

 

[saq]

I do think pineapple is a pretty a pretty good way to describe it. When I get home I'm going to carb & shake so I can get a little test in.

 

[user 22118]

take a picture when you pour a taste

 

[saq]

Alright, doing my first taste test! Heres a pic.

Appearance: Dark red with a creamy offwhite head that fades to a lasting small 2-3mm head. I'm not sure its completely carbonated yet.

Aroma: Some funk, a little tart fruitiness like pineapple, and a touch of sweetness wafts through.

Flavor: Tart fruit (pineapple, fresh peach), some flowery notes from the elderflower, light slightly spicy malt flavors come through at the end.

Mouthfeel: A full mouthfeel from the high gravity, yet fairly dry from the 92% apparent attenuation. Long finish of smooth creamy funky fruitiness, almost like peaches and cream.

Overall: An interesting, complex saison-ish beer with well blended flavors of brett and the elderflowers supported by an interesting faint malt base. No real pepperiness to speak of from the paradise seed, but the faint malt base has a little "spicy" flavor that I think is more from the rye malt.

Quite interesting indeed! I feel that the recipe itself is quite good, but if I brew it again with Brett C I think im going to increase the grains of paradise a little bit to 3 grams or maybe 4 grams, and reduce the elderflowers to a half gram to see if the funky flavors come out more. Increase the special B to .75lbs and drop the chocolate malt.

I'm more likely to brew the exact recipe again but use a different brett culture to make things interesting.

 

[saq]

Ive updated the first post with the final recipe and brewing notes.

A few notes on what I've learned from my first brett brew.

1: A vial from whitelabs contains a VERY small amount of brett. You need to grow a HUGE starter (20-30% bigger than mrmalty says) and let the starter go for at least a week to get up to the right population numbers.
2: Brett C really doesn't like temperatures colder than 75f for fermentation. It was a huge night and day difference in fermentation activity at 70f and 80f. It was practically stalled at 70f.

 

[saq]

Been drinking some more of this today and noticed something interesting. It kind of reminds me of duchesse a little bit (which is what I was going for with the darker malts). I don't know if thats an effect of having 50% of the fermentation happen at room temp or the elderflowers or what. It doesn't have as much vinegar characterstics as duchesse does. Its definitely interesting!

 

[user 22118]

I have been told that brett takes a loooong time to finish fermentation at proper temps. Should take about 10 or so days to go from 1.060 to 1.020 and then some three or four months to make it to 1.010 or less. Granted, I haven't done it yet, but I have heard this from some good sources.

I was thinking of fermenting around 80 and was told that I would get a lot of funk. If looking for a lot of funk, then good on you. If not then I was told to go for less temp.

 

[dreadnatty08]

Couple things I've noticed in the 3 100% Brett beers I've done (2ea Brett L, one C). Like you said, the vials/packs contain a small amount of yeast, you need to build up huge, lager sized starters. I also found C to poop out below 75, but L had no problems with a cooler temp. I've gotten consistently about 80% attenuation using them as primary strains, they all seem to stop at 1.009-1.010. Brett L has a beautiful cherry character as the sole fermenter, I love it in my dry stout. Don't expect sourness from Brett, that mostly comes from lacto/acetobactor/pedio. 100% Brett beers take just about 3-4 weeks to fully attenuate, but YMMV.
I just bottled my 100% Brett C beer made with Rauch malt, Mango puree and chipotles. I thought those flavors would complement any Pineapple I got out of it.
And yes, Mike (OldSock) is a great guy and brewing buddy.
I hope you saved some of the cake, as that Brett C is going to be hard to find in a couple months.

 

[z987k]

I hope you saved some of the cake, as that Brett C is going to be hard to find in a couple months.

Why is that?

 

[saq]

Don't worry, I've got a jar that has a fair amount of pure Brett C in it that I can propogate out new starters I don't believe in cakes.
I would be interested in doing a swap with some other people that have done all brett beers to see how the flavors vary, I'm actually fairly impressed with how tart this beer became in its short ferment and would like to hear some feedback from other brett brewers.

 

[Tonedef131]

I'm doing an all Brett B Saison with a 20% sour mash sometime in the next few weeks. I'll post my results if you are interested.

 

[dreadnatty08]

Why is that?

Brett C (from Wyeast) is a VSS and is "available" from April to July. You might be able to find some into the fall and perhaps winter, but it's quality might be diminished.

 

[saq]

Brett C (from Wyeast) is a VSS and is "available" from April to July. You might be able to find some into the fall and perhaps winter, but it's quality might be diminished.

Its available year round from White Labs, which is what I used.

 

[dreadnatty08]

Its available year round from White Labs, which is what I used.

Assuming it's the same Clausinii which I've heard is debatable.
Just opened the first bottle of Mango Chipotle that was 100% C last night and it was fantastic, but didn't get a whole lot of yeast character from it. Still way too young to judge though.