This is true, but they don't call it "pay", it's a "stipend" for your trouble and for any expenses that come up outside of food and hotel. That's why Jordan Morris can get paid by the USMNT for a friendly without running afoul of their rules on paying "student athletes" (ugg, that stupid term) but he can't receive bonus pay as "man of the match" or something similar. It's a bull**** accounting thing, but it works I guess. Either way, in terms of professional athletes making multiple millions of dollars, these "stipends" are nothing, as you noted.
The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread
- Thread starter Reno_eNVy
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
This is true, but they don't call it "pay", it's a "stipend" for your trouble and for any expenses that come up outside of food and hotel. That's why Jordan Morris can get paid by the USMNT for a friendly without running afoul of their rules on paying "student athletes" (ugg, that stupid term) but he can't receive bonus pay as "man of the match" or something similar. It's a bull**** accounting thing, but it works I guess. Either way, in terms of professional athletes making multiple millions of dollars, these "stipends" are nothing, as you noted.
kingwood-kid
Well-Known Member
Spotrac had it at $223K, although that doesn't really change anything. I think an American star for the Galaxy, especially one like Zardes, can make a lot more off the field than a guy not in the 18 can in England. But beyond that, I think athletes chase the money too often. More money always sounds better, but that excitement is pretty fleeting. How much of anyone's happiness is dependent on money, and how much is about friends and family, feeling useful and appreciated at work, or even the weather?
It's easy for me to say this guy should have signed here, but other than the money, I have no idea what's important to any of these guys. All I know about Zardes is that he's from LA and that he dyes his hair so his grandmother can find him easily on the field. That's two good reasons not to leave, unless he speaks Dutch and grandma's cable package gets the Eredvisie in HD. But ultimately, almost everybody goes to the highest bidder.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Zardes likely garners more serious endorsements on his USMNT performance then on his club performance. THough that doesn't hurt mind you. But you think, if you see US players in national commercials, I can only think of 5, Donovan, Dempsey, Howard, Bradley, and Zusi. Only the last one you'd argue is a small fry on the national stage and that's not really true. I severely doubt Dempsey makes much more on endorsements for the sounders than he did with Fulham or Tottenham.
As Talgrath said, if someone overseas will pay him, he'll go or LA will have to make him a DP. I would make him a DP and get rid of Omar personally. While obviously a very good player, I'd much rather build around Dos Santos and Zardes. And if that happens soon, you really can't get rid of Keane or Gerrard, who'll buy them?
As Talgrath said, if someone overseas will pay him, he'll go or LA will have to make him a DP. I would make him a DP and get rid of Omar personally. While obviously a very good player, I'd much rather build around Dos Santos and Zardes. And if that happens soon, you really can't get rid of Keane or Gerrard, who'll buy them?
For athletes, I think money is a bigger factor than most people realize, for public relations' sake they'll say they love the city and the fans and the team, but ultimately it's a job and like any job you'll go to where the pay and benefits are the best. Most pro athletes are keenly aware that they have only a few years to make their "big" money and that their careers after it's over will be far less glamorous and profitable; and if the athlete isn't, their agent is. Do you really think Michael Bradley wanted to go to Toronto FC over say, New York Red Bulls where he got his start (back when they were the Metro Stars) and where most of his family lives or Chicago where he spent much of his youth? Of course not. But Toronto was willing to pay him $7 million a year, the Fire simply aren't able to match that and at the time NYRB didn't have a slot open (and weren't so keen on a big money signing). Zardes may like LA a lot, but I guarantee you if he can make 10x the money overseas or for another MLS club, he'll do it.
OP
OP
Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
I'd have to choose to keep Omar. The W-D-L stats of when he's playing vs not are ridiculous. The defense is immensely better with him at the helm (it's an even bigger disparity when you look at the Omar/AJ pairing.)
I'd rather they win a cup by constantly grinding out 1-0 wins just like in 2012 then have a crazy attack that may or may not win games.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Omar is a great defender. I'd rather get rid of Gerrard or Keane myself, but the issue with them is their contract and who will take them. Not that they're not good players of course. They're just old.
I can't imagine how much fun Bruce Arena must be having, he gets to put a diamond attack with Keane up top, Zardes and Dos Santos wide and Gerrard behind him. Of course I'm not making the roster, so I have no say, but I would have so much fun with that.
I can't imagine how much fun Bruce Arena must be having, he gets to put a diamond attack with Keane up top, Zardes and Dos Santos wide and Gerrard behind him. Of course I'm not making the roster, so I have no say, but I would have so much fun with that.
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
Another week of MLS, we're getting towards the end of the season and points are becoming harder and harder to come by.
1. Shoot Out in Kansas City
Defense was optional in Kansas City this week as the 2nd and 3rd place teams in the west faced off in a game that eventually ended 4-3 in favor of Sporting KC. In a way, this is hardly surprising, both teams have had shaky defense all season but excellent offense; what's more, KC has more 4+ goal games than any team in the league besides Columbus Crew. Sporting KC might just sneak up on the top two in the league, with the win against #2 Vancouver they have 40 points in 22 games, their 1.82 pts per game is better than anyone in the league; with 4 games in hand Sporting KC could easily overtake LA as the top team in the west and could even take the Supporter's Shield if they keep this pace. Sporting has a pretty easy path forward too, they only have 2 games remaining against top 3 teams in either east or west, a showdown with Columbus a few weeks from now and they finish their season against LA.
2. Chicago and Philadelphia Was a Bad Choice
At some point, some executive somewhere said "Chicago vs Philadelphia in week 26 is going to be a match up people will watch", that executive was an idiot. Maybe it was some executive at Fox who thought that two big city teams must be good, maybe it was someone in MLS that thought both would be scrapping for a spot in the east; it doesn't matter because while the game was decently entertaining thanks ot 6 goals, it was also pointless. Chicago and Philly's 3-3 draw on Sunday, helped neither team in any way as both are still the basement dwellers of the east. What's more, even if one of them had won the game, it wouldn't have mattered, right now both teams are just competing not to be last.
3. The Sounders Shift Into Obadrive
Sorry, but the pun had to be made. Obafemi Martins came back into the Sounders line up after two months away on injury and the impact was immediate and clear, Martins picked up a brace and, were it not for a badly taken PK, would have had a hat trick. Shiny new designated player Nelson Valdez got a goal and an assist in the process too. Pretty much the entire team looked better with Martins back in the line up, even once Martins was on the bench their Brazilian midfielder Thomas added another goal to Orlando City's woe after scoring his first. The Sounders no longer have a shot at the Supporter's Shield, but with Martins in the line up they're unlikely to miss the playoffs and will be a dangerous team to face. For Orlando City, the disappointing result means they have an even steeper hill to climb if they don't want to miss the playoffs.
4. The West's Playoff Picture Crystalizes...
With this week's results in, the playoff picture is becoming much clearer for the previously chaotic west. As things stand now, it looks like LA, Vancouver and Sporting KC will all be fighting for that top spot (the smart money is on Sporting). Portland, Dallas and Seattle are all going to be fighting for position in the bottom half of the playoff picture. Pretty much everyone else in the west is out at this point though, Houston and San Jose have games in hand, but their recent form has been less than spectacular and they would need to see resurgent Seattle or solid Dallas drop a bunch of points. RSL looks to miss the playoffs for the first time in a long while with a shockingly bad defense despite trying to play a defensive counter-attacking style, their -11 goal differential is the worst in the west and their road goal differential is a terrible -16, worst in MLS. Colorado has, realistically, been out of the running for a playoff spot for a while, the only way Colorado has a shot at taking a spot is to win pretty much every single one of their remaining games, in a schedule sprinkled with top table teams.
5. ...While The East Gets Muddier
The west might be all but settled, but the east is a mess heading into the final weeks of MLS. The top spot in the east is almost certainly going to either DC United or the NYRB, but the rest is up in the air. Only 7 points and goal differential separate 3rd from 8th place in the east. Columbus and New England hold tenuously to the 3rd and 4th spots, but their neighbors to the north, Toronto and Montreal, both have games in hand; if they can convert those extra games into points, then almost certainly they'll be top of the heap for the single elimination round, and both teams have the sort of schedules that can very easily be turned into points, with very few top teams in the remainder of games. New teams Orlando City and NYCFC aren't too far off from the playoff spots though, Orlando is tied with Montreal on points and is only 7th due to goal differential and NYCFC is only 1 point out, but NYCFC may very well be out, their remaining schedule is littered with tough games. Philly and Chicago are done, as I noted above.
1. Shoot Out in Kansas City
Defense was optional in Kansas City this week as the 2nd and 3rd place teams in the west faced off in a game that eventually ended 4-3 in favor of Sporting KC. In a way, this is hardly surprising, both teams have had shaky defense all season but excellent offense; what's more, KC has more 4+ goal games than any team in the league besides Columbus Crew. Sporting KC might just sneak up on the top two in the league, with the win against #2 Vancouver they have 40 points in 22 games, their 1.82 pts per game is better than anyone in the league; with 4 games in hand Sporting KC could easily overtake LA as the top team in the west and could even take the Supporter's Shield if they keep this pace. Sporting has a pretty easy path forward too, they only have 2 games remaining against top 3 teams in either east or west, a showdown with Columbus a few weeks from now and they finish their season against LA.
2. Chicago and Philadelphia Was a Bad Choice
At some point, some executive somewhere said "Chicago vs Philadelphia in week 26 is going to be a match up people will watch", that executive was an idiot. Maybe it was some executive at Fox who thought that two big city teams must be good, maybe it was someone in MLS that thought both would be scrapping for a spot in the east; it doesn't matter because while the game was decently entertaining thanks ot 6 goals, it was also pointless. Chicago and Philly's 3-3 draw on Sunday, helped neither team in any way as both are still the basement dwellers of the east. What's more, even if one of them had won the game, it wouldn't have mattered, right now both teams are just competing not to be last.
3. The Sounders Shift Into Obadrive
Sorry, but the pun had to be made. Obafemi Martins came back into the Sounders line up after two months away on injury and the impact was immediate and clear, Martins picked up a brace and, were it not for a badly taken PK, would have had a hat trick. Shiny new designated player Nelson Valdez got a goal and an assist in the process too. Pretty much the entire team looked better with Martins back in the line up, even once Martins was on the bench their Brazilian midfielder Thomas added another goal to Orlando City's woe after scoring his first. The Sounders no longer have a shot at the Supporter's Shield, but with Martins in the line up they're unlikely to miss the playoffs and will be a dangerous team to face. For Orlando City, the disappointing result means they have an even steeper hill to climb if they don't want to miss the playoffs.
4. The West's Playoff Picture Crystalizes...
With this week's results in, the playoff picture is becoming much clearer for the previously chaotic west. As things stand now, it looks like LA, Vancouver and Sporting KC will all be fighting for that top spot (the smart money is on Sporting). Portland, Dallas and Seattle are all going to be fighting for position in the bottom half of the playoff picture. Pretty much everyone else in the west is out at this point though, Houston and San Jose have games in hand, but their recent form has been less than spectacular and they would need to see resurgent Seattle or solid Dallas drop a bunch of points. RSL looks to miss the playoffs for the first time in a long while with a shockingly bad defense despite trying to play a defensive counter-attacking style, their -11 goal differential is the worst in the west and their road goal differential is a terrible -16, worst in MLS. Colorado has, realistically, been out of the running for a playoff spot for a while, the only way Colorado has a shot at taking a spot is to win pretty much every single one of their remaining games, in a schedule sprinkled with top table teams.
5. ...While The East Gets Muddier
The west might be all but settled, but the east is a mess heading into the final weeks of MLS. The top spot in the east is almost certainly going to either DC United or the NYRB, but the rest is up in the air. Only 7 points and goal differential separate 3rd from 8th place in the east. Columbus and New England hold tenuously to the 3rd and 4th spots, but their neighbors to the north, Toronto and Montreal, both have games in hand; if they can convert those extra games into points, then almost certainly they'll be top of the heap for the single elimination round, and both teams have the sort of schedules that can very easily be turned into points, with very few top teams in the remainder of games. New teams Orlando City and NYCFC aren't too far off from the playoff spots though, Orlando is tied with Montreal on points and is only 7th due to goal differential and NYCFC is only 1 point out, but NYCFC may very well be out, their remaining schedule is littered with tough games. Philly and Chicago are done, as I noted above.
Rumor has it Gyasi Zardes could be on his way to Belgium soon.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/08/17/belgian-club-jenk-among-clubs-interested-la-galaxy-gyasi-zardes
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/08/17/belgian-club-jenk-among-clubs-interested-la-galaxy-gyasi-zardes
OP
OP
Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
*Sigh* That's the word. If it happens I just hope we can retain his rights and eventually get him back.
Thought this was worth a chuckle: http://www.buzzfeed.com/richardbeech/who-would-invent-a-word-like-soccer#.bqoBDyeV9
Also, wondering how much Costa and Mourinho cuddled and cried after this weekend. I don't know what's funnier, that Leicester is near the top of the table, or that Chelsea is so near the bottom (granted the table means little right now,but still). Also, I'm amazed at the heart shown by Bournemouth, and I won't be surprised if they find themselves almost mid-table at the end.
Also, wondering how much Costa and Mourinho cuddled and cried after this weekend. I don't know what's funnier, that Leicester is near the top of the table, or that Chelsea is so near the bottom (granted the table means little right now,but still). Also, I'm amazed at the heart shown by Bournemouth, and I won't be surprised if they find themselves almost mid-table at the end.
Also, please for the love of all that is holy let the Juventus Lamela sale rumors be true...
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
What happened? when he hit the rabona against fc flip flop he was supposed to be the next VDV.
Apparently he grew a taste for bad haircuts, giving opponents free kicks and penalties. Oh, and fudge.
According to the new transfer rules, it depends on his transfer fee. If someone pays a transfer fee of $500,000 or more then he would go through the allocation process upon return.
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
MLS transfer rules =
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Same with Reading as well, where there's smoke there's fire
OP
OP
Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
That's pretty dang funny. At first I really thought it was being serious. Well done.
MLS transfer rules =
Pfft, who wants consistent rules? It makes things more interesting.
But in all seriousness, they can fudge the rules all they want as long as it means MLS gets bigger and more prominent.
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
Try telling that to a supporter whose team just got screwed out of an "allocation" player just because the league thought it would be better served if that player was placed elsewhere. I guess if you are a supporter of a big successful team who is always signing new DPs to massive contracts and doesn't have to rely on some 2 bit Vegas Vacation style allocation lottery its easy to say league strength is the most important thing.
OP
OP
Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
This is true... but that sounds like a Philly supporter to me. Sorry, only jokes and banter
But there are so many workarounds that big names can be snatched up by anybody.
The players that are no longer subject to allocation are marquee USMNTers. Hell, LA still had to follow the allocation order to get Mr. Two Saints.
Other clubs are catching up and some are spending even more than the G's. Every time there is a new rule to improve quality of play (that usually requires more spending) people get up in arms that the league is drifting away from parity. But then it doesn't take long for things to reach equilibrium again. Then there are complaints that the league should be doing more to improve overall skill level. Thus, a new rule is created and we rinse and repeat.
IT'S THE CIIIIIRCLE OF LIIIIFE!
While I definitely think the old roster rules were a bit silly, these are, more or less, straight forward. Current USMNT players or former MLS players where the team got $500,000 or more go through allocation, otherwise the rights remain where they started. To MLS credit, the rules are out there in public now and they seem to be following them, will that stay the case? I have no idea, but so far they're sticking to them. it is worth noting that roster rules are now tied in to the CBA, which means that any changes to the roster rules have to get the okay of the MLS Players' Union first, not just the MLS bosses.
Grannyknot
Well-Known Member
we shall see I guess.
personally I have no faith of them sticking to their own rules, or providing transparency when they don't.
personally I have no faith of them sticking to their own rules, or providing transparency when they don't.
Well, this is a delightfully Spursy start. One could at least claim we played the better in our first two matches but paid for dumb mistakes. This time, we were fortunate it was only a draw. Horrid play throughout. Ugh.
Another week of MLS, another week that shows I'm an idiot!
1. Apparently I Curse Teams, Sorry KC
It seems like any time I make statements like "this is the best team in MLS" that team then proceeds to prove me wrong. Last week I said Sporting KC are likely going to take the west and the Supporter's Shield, KC then proceeded to get sucker punched by San Jose to the tune of 5-0 at home and then see Columbus make a come from behind win. Previously I have said that the Sounders were the best team in MLS, only to see them have a "red card wedding" that saw them slump hard for roughly two months with Obafemi Martins injured and Clint Dempsey suspended and then away for the Gold Cup. When I said Toronto FC should take the east, they then proceeded to drop two games in a row as well. So, sorry KC, I totally curse teams by saying positive stuff.
2. Coaches on the Hot Seat
With the seasons rolling to a close, who's on the hot seat? A few options:
Sigi Schmid: Honestly, I think anything less than an MLS Cup victory means the end of Schmid's time in Seattle. The second most expensive roster in MLS sits at 6th in the west right now, barely clinging to the playoffs. Even worse, this team is sitting behind Portland in the standings and the grumbles of the Seattle fanbase are growing ever louder. It's win it all or take a hike for Schmid.
Frank Yallop: Chicago are the worst team in MLS right now, and while all of that isn't solely Frank Yallop's fault, his tenure has seen Chicago go the opposite direction from where they want to be. Two years ago Chicago just barely missed the playoffs and they've just gotten worse since then.
Pablo Mastroeni: Colorado is the west's new punching bag and it's hard to argue that isn't at least partially Mastroeni's fault. Mastroeni may have delivered a more defensively solid squad than Oscar Pareja, but he's done so at the expense of utilizing his talented youngsters and getting goals.
Jeff Cassar: RSL picked up a big win on Saturday against the Sounders, but RSL still remains firmly outside of the playoff picture. Whoever picked up the mantle of RSL coach after Kreis was going to have one hell of a time, particularly with Garth Lagerway on his way to Seattle, but in his second year after firmly being able to implement his vision, RSL are the worst they've been since Kreis came to town. If they make the playoffs it's possible Cassar gets another year though.
Jim Curtin: It's unlikely that Philadelphia will fire him after his first full season in charge, but it is possible. Curtin's Philadelphia does look good on offense, but stinks out loud on defense and are second from the last in the east; but then again Philly fans can't say this is a big change from their last season.
3. Can Anyone Stop LA?
LA beat down NYCFC 5-1 on Sunday, now NYCFC isn't exactly a team that makes people scared right now, but it's worth noting exactly how badly LA is beating people at the "right time" in the season. So how can you beat LA? Well, if we head all the way back to LA vs Houston on July 27th we get a pretty nice template. Houston kept LA out of the penalty box, letting them take shots from distance and gave up possession, but then when they did get the ball immediately went on the counter, exploiting space between the midfield (which is mostly offensive) and the back line. Houston shot with abandon too, testing backup keeper Rowe as much as possible; Ricketts is a somewhat better keeper, but he's not the man he once was, age has hit the big man hard. So what team plays that way and is best suited to beat LA? Probably the Vancouver Whitecaps, who have been playing that way for almost all of the year. If Vancouver faces LA in the western final, they could very well shock LA and play for the cup.
1. Apparently I Curse Teams, Sorry KC
It seems like any time I make statements like "this is the best team in MLS" that team then proceeds to prove me wrong. Last week I said Sporting KC are likely going to take the west and the Supporter's Shield, KC then proceeded to get sucker punched by San Jose to the tune of 5-0 at home and then see Columbus make a come from behind win. Previously I have said that the Sounders were the best team in MLS, only to see them have a "red card wedding" that saw them slump hard for roughly two months with Obafemi Martins injured and Clint Dempsey suspended and then away for the Gold Cup. When I said Toronto FC should take the east, they then proceeded to drop two games in a row as well. So, sorry KC, I totally curse teams by saying positive stuff.
2. Coaches on the Hot Seat
With the seasons rolling to a close, who's on the hot seat? A few options:
Sigi Schmid: Honestly, I think anything less than an MLS Cup victory means the end of Schmid's time in Seattle. The second most expensive roster in MLS sits at 6th in the west right now, barely clinging to the playoffs. Even worse, this team is sitting behind Portland in the standings and the grumbles of the Seattle fanbase are growing ever louder. It's win it all or take a hike for Schmid.
Frank Yallop: Chicago are the worst team in MLS right now, and while all of that isn't solely Frank Yallop's fault, his tenure has seen Chicago go the opposite direction from where they want to be. Two years ago Chicago just barely missed the playoffs and they've just gotten worse since then.
Pablo Mastroeni: Colorado is the west's new punching bag and it's hard to argue that isn't at least partially Mastroeni's fault. Mastroeni may have delivered a more defensively solid squad than Oscar Pareja, but he's done so at the expense of utilizing his talented youngsters and getting goals.
Jeff Cassar: RSL picked up a big win on Saturday against the Sounders, but RSL still remains firmly outside of the playoff picture. Whoever picked up the mantle of RSL coach after Kreis was going to have one hell of a time, particularly with Garth Lagerway on his way to Seattle, but in his second year after firmly being able to implement his vision, RSL are the worst they've been since Kreis came to town. If they make the playoffs it's possible Cassar gets another year though.
Jim Curtin: It's unlikely that Philadelphia will fire him after his first full season in charge, but it is possible. Curtin's Philadelphia does look good on offense, but stinks out loud on defense and are second from the last in the east; but then again Philly fans can't say this is a big change from their last season.
3. Can Anyone Stop LA?
LA beat down NYCFC 5-1 on Sunday, now NYCFC isn't exactly a team that makes people scared right now, but it's worth noting exactly how badly LA is beating people at the "right time" in the season. So how can you beat LA? Well, if we head all the way back to LA vs Houston on July 27th we get a pretty nice template. Houston kept LA out of the penalty box, letting them take shots from distance and gave up possession, but then when they did get the ball immediately went on the counter, exploiting space between the midfield (which is mostly offensive) and the back line. Houston shot with abandon too, testing backup keeper Rowe as much as possible; Ricketts is a somewhat better keeper, but he's not the man he once was, age has hit the big man hard. So what team plays that way and is best suited to beat LA? Probably the Vancouver Whitecaps, who have been playing that way for almost all of the year. If Vancouver faces LA in the western final, they could very well shock LA and play for the cup.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Mesutical/status/636526262903808002
This is some of the best trolling I've seen in a long time. I can't stop laughing.
This is some of the best trolling I've seen in a long time. I can't stop laughing.
Can I just say, I'm already tired of the Heung-Min Son puns.
Don't get me wrong, I don't watch much Bundesliga and know very little about the guy, but seems he's a good striker and we badly need another striker (hopefully between Son and N'Jie we'll be alright, now that it looks like Saido may be staying at West Brom (or maybe not, what do I know).
But enough with the puns. "Here comes the Son". "Son shines on White Hart Lane". "You are my Sonshine". "Carry on my Heung Min Son". And so on.
Don't get me wrong, I don't watch much Bundesliga and know very little about the guy, but seems he's a good striker and we badly need another striker (hopefully between Son and N'Jie we'll be alright, now that it looks like Saido may be staying at West Brom (or maybe not, what do I know).
But enough with the puns. "Here comes the Son". "Son shines on White Hart Lane". "You are my Sonshine". "Carry on my Heung Min Son". And so on.
Can I just say, I'm already tired of the Heung-Min Son puns.
Don't get me wrong, I don't watch much Bundesliga and know very little about the guy, but seems he's a good striker and we badly need another striker (hopefully between Son and N'Jie we'll be alright, now that it looks like Saido may be staying at West Brom (or maybe not, what do I know).
But enough with the puns. "Here comes the Son". "Son shines on White Hart Lane". "You are my Sonshine". "Carry on my Heung Min Son". And so on.
The worst part is that isn't even how you pronounce his name...
I don't know the correct pronunciation, but I figured as much. I'd guess it's closer to zone than sun, no?
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
In one day Wolfsburg moved Perisic and De Brunye for over 100M USD, that's a lot of cash and not a lot of time to spend it for the UCL qualified Wolfsburg. I assume they'll now get Draxler at the minimum for sure.
"Sung", with more emphasis on the end.
