The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[Talgrath]

A busy week of MLS, a few thoughts on the week:

1. The MLS All Star Format Is Great And It's Going to Die Soon
The MLS all star format is a great idea and one that's only uniquely possible in America and Canada. American and Canadian sports all have an "All Star" game of some sort, but none of them play a game against another team with their best players. Aside from some people asking to switch back to the east/west format, there's a simple fact that you need an opponent. For the opposing team the MLS All Stars game, in the past, has been a good warm up; the talent in the "All Stars" wasn't necessarily equivalent to the talent of the European team, so despite the fact that they were in mid-season form they acted as a good challenge. But as MLS talent gets even better top tier talent that logic starts to break down, hell Gerrard and Lampard were just playing against Tottenham in the EPL a few months before they played them as all stars.

2. Goals! Goals! Goals!
Defense was particularly optional in the DC and RSL match that ended 6-4 (?!) in favor of DC United. MLS set a record for goals in a single day, with 39 goals in 8 matches, yowser! Not much else to say here.

3. The Sounders Are in a Freefall
Despite Dempsey being back the Sounders were beaten soundly, at home, in a Cascadia match, by Vancouver 3-0. The Sounders just can't seem to figure out how to score again, they haven't scored in a record for their club, over 340 minutes. At some point the midfield has to provide better balls and score some goals themselves. And at some point Sigi Schmid has to realize that Barrett and Neagle aren't the answer at striker right now.

4. Andrea Pirlo Is Slow and Old
When NYCFC picked up Andrea Pirlo a lot of people said he was old and slow and that with him in NYCFC's lineup defense could be a problem; those that were pro Pirlo said that speed didn't matter, but NYCFC's game against Montreal showed how this can be a major problem. Every goal Montreal scored was a jab aimed at that bruised kidney, an overhead ball delivered where Pirlo was to a speedy forward or midfielder ready to burn the aging Italian. NYCFC used their supercharged midfield to good effect, scoring two return goals but against a better defense they could have faced down a 3-1 or 3-0 result.

5. Columbus Needs a Better Defense
I said earlier in the year that if Columbus can't shore up their defense they're going to lose games, and their loss to Orlando City was a great reminder of that. While Columbus' swarming offense can beat a lot of teams on a good team, a team designed for counter attack will beat them most of the time, Orlando City 5-2. Also, we should just hand Cyle Larin "rookie of the year" right now.

 

[Grannyknot]

Premier League is back :rockin:

 

[Qhrumphf]

Premier League is back :rockin:

Proper football season.

Hoping to get home nice and early tomorrow. And hoping Spurs play a little better than last Wednesday with no silly handballs and that Madrid plays as well as MLS did without the extremely good luck.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

A busy week of MLS, a few thoughts on the wheek:

5. Columbus Needs a Better Defense
I said earlier in the year that if Columbus can't shore up their defense they're going to lose games, and their loss to Orlando City was a great reminder of that. While Columbus' swarming offense can beat a lot of teams on a good team, a team designed for counter attack will beat them most of the time, Orlando City 5-2. Also, we should just hand Cyle Larin "rookie of the year" right now.

You're right. It's plainly apparent the Crew have huge problems on their back line. The left central back is played by either Pogatetz or Tyson Wahl. Neither, IMO, have the complete skill set to play central back. Wahl's marking is terrible. On two of OCFC goals, he let a runner past him for an open look at goal from a cross or diagonal run.

Pogatetz is better at marking and is more physical, but his passing decisions sometimes leave me scratching my head. The Crew plays a possession style where the the 2 and 3 push forward and wide, the 4 and 5 spread wide and the 6 drops back central. The center backs have to make good solid decisions and accurate passes to build from the back line with this style of play. Pogatetz gives the ball away from bad decisions or inaccurate passes too often in the back third which result in quality opportunities for the other side.

I'm hoping they'll find another CB soon because the current options to play alongside Parkhurst aren't working.

The crew did pick up another RB. A Ghanaian player by the name of Afful. He sounds like an upgrade from Barson or Jimenez, but until they fix their problem with the 4 back, they'll continue to struggle.

Hopefully, they get it sorted out soon. Saturday was tough to watch.

 

[Talgrath]

Yeah, if you're a Crew fan that had to be a frustrating match. On the upside, this is the opposite of what the Crew were in years past, unable to score but able to defend well. If they can fix the back line I think they will be one of the best in the east.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

The Crew were scary-good at the beginning of the season. The potential is there, they just need to click.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

The Crew needs to shore up their back line. So what else would one do in that scenario? That's right, pick up a striker. http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2015/08/04/0804-crew-sc-Jack-McInerney_.html

I'm not saying this is a bad pick up. In fact, it'll be interesting to see how BerhalterI'd will incorporate him in the lineup.

I'd think finding a solution to the back line problems should be an immediate need. Hopefully that's addressed sooner rather than later.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

Welp, along with McInerney, the Crew managed to find a CB. http://www.massivereport.com/2015/8...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastón_Sauro

Hopefully, Sauro will stop the bleeding. It'd be nice for the Crew to finish a game with a clean sheet. IIRC, that's only happened 4 times this season and have given up nearly 2 goals per game.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Of course the first goal of the Premiere League is a Spurs own goal. And they're playing well too

 

[ram5ey]

I woke up to find Tottenham already down in the first match of the season! Gonna be a good day.

 

[Talgrath]

Of course the first goal of the Premiere League is a Spurs own goal. And they're playing well too

Yeah, if only they had paid a bunch of money for a right back from MLS team Sounders FC that they could put in instead of Walker...

 

[Talgrath]

Another week of MLS comes to a close, but probably the most interesting bits happened off the field as the trade window closed; whether you like it or not these are (mostly) the teams until the season ends. Looking at all 10 of the teams that used TAM money would take a while, as would looking at all the moves, but there are three teams in particular worth focusing on.

1. NYCFC Got Their Big Names...
Lampard was supposed to be in New York at the start of the season, so his arrival wasn't a huge surprise, Pirlo was rumored for weeks before his signing, today NYCFC finally got to use them. Unfortunately for NYCFC Lampard and Pirlo couldn't help them beat the NYRB ; this rivalry (if you can really call it that) has started with dominance by the suddenly more frugal MLS side. Pirlo is slow, like I mentioned last week, which means that the players around him have to work overtime on defense. Lampard is a different story, his game this evening showed that he still has the pep in his step necessary to compete in MLS, but he needs to stay healthy.

2. ...but the Galaxy May Have Made the Bigger Splash...
Giovanni Dos Santos may be one of the more important signings in MLS history, and if you want to talk about things that truly help connect with the latino fanbase it's these sorts of signings, not the pandering of the now departed Chivas USA. Plenty of Dos Santos love was on display in LA and he looked dangerous in his first MLS match against the depleted Seattle Sounders. Steven Gerrard might be the bigger name internationally but Dos Santos is a much bigger name in southern California. What's more, the Galaxy got Dos Santos not at "retirement age" but when he's fresh and young. If anything might make Mexican and Mexican American fans pay more attention to MLS, this is the signing.

3. ...But the Sounders May Have Made the Smarter Moves Long Term
Nelson Valdez's signing by the Sounders and their myriad of other smaller name might not set the fanbase on fire, but they may be the smarter signings in the long term. While NYCFC has an age problem, what's not being talked about is that LA probably has a money problem. LA used some of its TAM money to buy down the remaining half of the season's contract for Omar Gonzalez, exactly how much isn't clear, but Gonzalez makes $1.2 million per year, halve that and you get $600,000 and you'd need to buy him down to approximately $200,000 (half of the league max) to get him down to "non DP" levels or about $400,000 of the available $500,000. Unless Gonzalez is willing to take a big cut or his contract is set to step him down to a much smaller amount, LA needs to come up with approximately $800,000 in either regular allocation money or TAM money. Given that Peneda was rumored to have been let go due to salary cap issues it seems very likely that LA doesn't have a big pile of allocation money. If Gonzalez isn't traded or his contract restructured, I think we'll hear a lot of trade headlines in which Galaxy players head to other teams in exchange for allocation money this offseason. Of course, this logical talk is cold comfort to Sounders fans after their 3-1 thrashing at the hands of the Galaxy right now, but the Sounders may have made the smartest moves in terms of talent for money.

4. Chicago Continue to Sift Through the Garbage Pile
The Chicago Fire acquired Brazilian striker Gilberto from Toronto FC as part of a series of deals that also resulted in Didier Drogba heading to Montreal. Chicago just can't seem to resist going through other team's garbage and hoping to find some shining jewels and Gilberto is a prime example of that, the striker scored only 7 goals for Toronto in 28 appearances and he's been on loan ever since to clear up a DP slot. How Chicago thinks they can turn Gilberto into glittering gold I don't know, but Gilberto never looked like a DP, then again he'll fit in with all of Chicago's other non DP's getting paid DP money.

5. Didier Drogba Makes Money Sense, But Might Not Make Tactical Sense
Didier Dogba's arrival in French speaking Montreal resulted in him being immediately mobbed by reporters and fans and as far as filling stadiums he will almost certainly be a success. Tactically speaking Drogba doesn't make great sense, Montreal have lived and died this season by quick, counter attacking soccer and while Drogba isn't as slow as Pirlo, a quick counter-attacker is probably no longer a description that can be applied to him. What's more, Drogba, at the age of 37, can't have more than a couple of years left in the tank, so this isn't a long term move. Butts in seats may be the reason for Drogba more than anything though, and in that respect I think Drogba will be an absolute success.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Good write-up. But I think Bruce will handle the Omar situation. He's really good at acquiring and moving Garber Bucks.

 

[Talgrath]

Good write-up. But I think Bruce will handle the Omar situation. He's really good at acquiring and moving Garber Bucks.

Well, I certainly think they can keep Omar, I just think they're going to have to give up a lot of smaller pieces to other clubs to work things out if they do. Those smaller pieces might be a bigger issue than the Galaxy might realize, Marcelo Savras is a great example of that.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Well, I certainly think they can keep Omar, I just think they're going to have to give up a lot of smaller pieces to other clubs to work things out if they do. Those smaller pieces might be a bigger issue than the Galaxy might realize, Marcelo Savras is a great example of that.

This is true. It would be a huge loss to lose a low-cost, hard working youngin like Juni or Lletget, or to lose potential in Nacho or Mendiola. But Bruce is also known to not use draft spots, which can fetch a hundred thousand (if not more) in allocation.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

This is true. It would be a huge loss to lose a low-cost, hard working youngin like Juni or Lletget, or to lose potential in Nacho or Mendiola. But Bruce is also known to not use draft spots, which can fetch a hundred thousand (if not more) in allocation.

I'm not familiar with MLS free agency, when is Zardes a risk of leaving?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

NBC Sports keeping the BPL for 6 years wooooo

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I'm not familiar with MLS free agency, when is Zardes a risk of leaving?

There is no free agency... well, technically there is no free agency until you've been around for several years (maybe closer to eight years.) I don't think the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) has been finalized yet so that rule hasn't been solidified.

MLS owns all of the player contacts. So I think Zardes is sticking around because I don't think Bruce wants to let him go anytime soon. The only thing I could think of that would see him leave would be a massive offer from a European club. Even if there are going to be salary cap issues I don't think Zardes would even be considered for lightening the load.

 

[Grannyknot]

NBC Sports keeping the BPL for 6 years wooooo

now they need to go get the champions league rights.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

There is no free agency... well, technically there is no free agency until you've been around for several years (maybe closer to eight years.) I don't think the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) has been finalized yet so that rule hasn't been solidified.

MLS owns all of the player contacts. So I think Zardes is sticking around because I don't think Bruce wants to let him go anytime soon. The only thing I could think of that would see him leave would be a massive offer from a European club. Even if there are going to be salary cap issues I don't think Zardes would even be considered for lightening the load.

So basically if a European club comes in and offers like 5 million for Zardes he's probably gone?

I'm just curious cause I can totally see it happening. Zardes is a player who's star is on the rise. Right now buying MLS homegrown players is a good cheap bargain. Getting a quality player for about 4 million USD is hard to pass up I'd imagine. If I was an italian or German side who's more mid, lower table who needs a striker or winger I'd go after him.

 

[Talgrath]

So basically if a European club comes in and offers like 5 million for Zardes he's probably gone?

I'm just curious cause I can totally see it happening. Zardes is a player who's star is on the rise. Right now buying MLS homegrown players is a good cheap bargain. Getting a quality player for about 4 million USD is hard to pass up I'd imagine. If I was an italian or German side who's more mid, lower table who needs a striker or winger I'd go after him.

So, here's the lowdown on MLS rookie contracts, MLS free agency, etc. So, as a rookie Zardes is under contract for, I believe, three years. MLS free agency only exists for veteran players, players that have been in the league for 8 years or more and that are 28 years of age or older. So let's say Zardes gets to the end of his rookie contract, if he wants to keep playing in MLS he can only accept what LA offer him, go to another league, or convince another MLS team to trade for his rights and offer him a better contract. If Zardes leaves and then wants to come back, he's in the same boat as before, he can take what LA offers or go elsewhere. That said, I suspect Zardes' days in MLS are numbered unless LA or another team is willing to give him DP money. Transfermarkt, which is a pretty good site for these sorts of things, marks Zardes as being worth 1.3 million Euros, if a team comes calling I think LA will sell him.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

It's possible but my thinking on the subject is that Bruce made him a project player from the start. I think his intrinsic value is worth more than his face value.

Plus, The Don probably has an interest in keeping Yanks in the league.

 

[Talgrath]

It's not necessarily Bruce or Garber's decision, though. Zardes is, I believe, coming up either this offseason or the next on the final year of his rookie contract, at that point he's a free man to go where he wants to outside of MLS. So if MLS is going to keep Zardes, this offseason they need to offer him a DP contract. The thing is, I'm not sure any other team in the league wants to give him a DP contract, he's shown a lot of potential but those DP spots are precious.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

It's not necessarily Bruce or Garber's decision, though. Zardes is, I believe, coming up either this offseason or the next on the final year of his rookie contract, at that point he's a free man to go where he wants to outside of MLS. So if MLS is going to keep Zardes, this offseason they need to offer him a DP contract. The thing is, I'm not sure any other team in the league wants to give him a DP contract, he's shown a lot of potential but those DP spots are precious.

If he has the option to leave the league I can see him going to Liga MX, I think he'd play extremely well there.

 

[kingwood-kid]

If I was a forward on the same team as Dos Santos and Gerrard, I'd be in no rush to leave. A higher salary is always nice--or so I've heard--but if you're good, distinctive-looking and a starter for both the USMNT and LA's only professional football team, you'll get endorsements, girls and everything else that comes with fame. If you were 23, you rather live on the beach and hang out with movie stars, or spend the winter rubbing elbows with the glitterati of Stoke-on-Trent?

 

[Talgrath]

If I was a forward on the same team as Dos Santos and Gerrard, I'd be in no rush to leave. A higher salary is always nice--or so I've heard--but if you're good, distinctive-looking and a starter for both the USMNT and LA's only professional football team, you'll get endorsements, girls and everything else that comes with fame. If you were 23, you rather live on the beach and hang out with movie stars, or spend the winter rubbing elbows with the glitterati of Stoke-on-Trent?

Would you rather make $2 million per year in Stoke-on-Trent or $125,000 per year in LA? Because $125,000 is what Zardes makes right now.

 

[Grannyknot]

Speaking of paychecks....
Does anyone have any idea what a USMNT call-up pays?
I assume its a player by player basis, but I wonder what someone like Zardes makes if he gets called up?

 

[Talgrath]

If he has the option to leave the league I can see him going to Liga MX, I think he'd play extremely well there.

As much as he would do well there, I think he commands too much of a salary on the open market now to head to Liga MX. I'd say, at the least, Zardes on the open market commands a low 7 figure salary, Liga MX does have players paid that well, but generally they're Mexican. Likely, Zardes will follow a similar path to Deandre Yedlin, head to a mid table or low table EPL team or maybe to the Eredivisie.

 

[Talgrath]

Speaking of paychecks....
Does anyone have any idea what a USMNT call-up pays?
I assume its a player by player basis, but I wonder what someone like Zardes makes if he gets called up?

Technically, nobody playing for any national team makes money off of it. Generally their meals and travel are paid for along with a small stipend for entertainment and what-not. The only exception is that bonuses are paid out if the team does well in a tournament or something similar. Even then, those bonuses are relatively negligible in star soccer terms. I seem to recall the USMNT players received a $70,000 bonus for getting out of the group.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Technically, nobody playing for any national team makes money off of it. Generally their meals and travel are paid for along with a small stipend for entertainment and what-not. The only exception is that bonuses are paid out if the team does well in a tournament or something similar. Even then, those bonuses are relatively negligible in star soccer terms. I seem to recall the USMNT players received a $70,000 bonus for getting out of the group.

Actually you do get paid. But it's a pittance. Usually a few grand per game. If that.

To add though. FAs are not required to pay players. Most big ones do in order to keep guys playing.