The GaP (Grocery and Produce) Beer Experiment

[Unlike a Bull]

This is becoming my favorite thread on this site, really interesting to see how many different approaches there are to the same problems. A testament to mankind's ingenuity.

Anyway, I tried to make my beer from birdfood, and failed terribly ... er, learned ... something ... terribly. I thought I was doing pretty well until the mash. I "malted" the millet, which was actually pretty exciting. a couple of days passed with nothing happening. then one night, while rinsing off the seeds, I noticed a couple of them had some rootlets. Then, the next day, they all had rootlets! that day I started drying them which, in hindsight, i think was premature and may have been my problem. Also, i dried them by cycling my oven on and off manually, trying to keep it around 120 degrees, but accidently left it on too long a couple of times, also where I probably messed up.

After it was all dried, I separated some of the millet and over roasted till it was burnt ... er until it was black patent millet. I also roasted a couple ounces of steel cut oats which smelled fantastic and will definitely be in my next attempt, and will probably be added to some other recipes.

for the mash I did a protein rest for 30 mins, then a sacharification for 90 minutes. After 90 minutes it still failed an iodine test. It also tasted starchy, and not at all sweet. So i'm starting over. This time through I'm going to wait until some of the millet actually sprouts, instead of just growing rootlets. And, I'm going to get a food dehydrator to dry it. I will also be more careful with the roasting process.

 

[Revvy]

This is becoming my favorite thread on this site, really interesting to see how many different approaches there are to the same problems. A testament to mankind's ingenuity....

....for the mash I did a protein rest for 30 mins, then a sacharification for 90 minutes. After 90 minutes it still failed an iodine test. It also tasted starchy, and not at all sweet. So i'm starting over. This time through I'm going to wait until some of the millet actually sprouts, instead of just growing rootlets. And, I'm going to get a food dehydrator to dry it. I will also be more careful with the roasting process.

Bull that's so cool!!! Keep us posted on how your malting Millet experiments go.

 

[SumnerH]

Bull that's so cool!!! Keep us posted on how your malting Millet experiments go.

+1 on this, keep posting everyone!

I love this thread unconditionally.

 

[starrfish]

bottling mine this weekend!:rockin:

 

[bluehouse]

Bottled up my experiment today. Strange color slightly orange looking. Fairly clear, beer like taste with slight citrus overtone but no hoppy smell of course.

Husband says it is beer like.

phot wont go from photobucket?

http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/janet_fphoto/?action=view&current=1235189673.jpg

 

[Revvy]

Bottled up my experiment today. Strange color slightly orange looking. Fairly clear, beer like taste with slight citrus overtone but no hoppy smell of course.

Husband says it is beer like.

phot wont go from photobucket?

It should post from PB just fine, did you use the img and /img tags wrapped in []

You could also just post the url to it....

 

[EvilTOJ]

Here ya go!

 

[Revvy]

This article from another thread sounds nearly like my "recipe" an would probably have about as much a success.

How to brew beer in a coffee maker, using only materials commonly found on a modestly sized oceanographic research vessel.

Introduction

Beer brewing is as much an art as a science. Finding the right blend of delicate grains, hops, malt, adding just the right flavoring agents, boiling for exactly enough time to release the tannins, starches, humic acids from you wort, these are all skills that take a lifetime to master. Perfect beer is meticulously planned and carefully crafted.

Screw that.

You’re six days into a 2 month expedition, and if you were lucky enough to not be on a dry ship, it’s de facto dry by now anyway. You’re eying the ethanol stores, the crew is eying each other, and all hell will break loose if y’all don’t get some sweet water soon. This is no time for artistry.

This is not, as a rule, a terribly good beer (though, with a good brewmaster on board, it can be). This is a beer to pass the time. I can guarantee that if you are careful, it will be at least as good as the cheapest commercial alternative.

Materials

The tools you need are simple: an electric drip coffee maker with hot plate, a coffee filter, 2 1-liter sample jars, 2 handkerchiefs, 2 rubber bands, and a source of clean (preferably R/O) water.

You’ll have to be more creative with your ingredients. What you need are some sort of grain, some malt, and, if possible, something that can act as a clarifying and hopping agent. You need a simple grain to release the tannins, starches, and enzymes. The best bet is common cereals - Raisin Bran, Cracked Wheat, Kashi, whatever you can find. The fruit and nuts will add flavor, but are not important.

Malt is tricky, and sometimes gross. In my experience, the best you can hope for is vegemite, marmite, or some other yeast extract. If you have chocolate malt balls or some other malt based candy, those can be ground up and used as well.

The hops are the hardest, and you may have to forgo their goodness. Alfalfa or some other green roughage may work, but a clever biologist will bring their own hops on board.

Methods

Sanitation is key. If you have an autoclave, sterilize your tools ahead of time. Otherwise, wash everything with an iodine solution or, if there are no other options, ethanol. Contamination is your enemy. Everything must be clean.

1. Grind up your ‘grains’ (but not so much that it becomes powder).
2. Place your ‘grains’ in coffee pot (not the filter basket, the carafe).
3. Run 2 cups of clean water through coffee maker and let it sit on the hot plate for an hour. This releases all the good chemicals from you ‘grains’ and creates a fluid called wort.
4. Strain the wort through the coffee filter and place the filter full of ‘grain’ into the filter basket. Add the ‘malt’ to the filter basket. Pour the strained liquid back into coffee maker and add 1 cup of water.
5. Run the wort through the coffee maker 5 times, each time adding 1 cup of water.
6. Pour the wort into the saucepan and boil for 45 minutes. Two minutes before boiling is done, add the hops.
7. Carefully pour the wort into the canning jars.
8. Let the wert cool to between 60 and 70 F. Once it is cool enough to touch the outside of the jars without burning, pitched the Bakers’ Yeast into the mixture.
9. Seal jar with a handkerchief and rubber band over the mouth.
10. Store in a cool, dark place where it will not be disturbed for a week.

Results

A cool, smooth brew, flavored with whatever you found. It may be bad, it may vbe very good. It will be beer.

Conclusion

You are now the most popular person on the boat. Enjoy.

Please note - these methods can be adapted to any lab or field work that demands it. The modestly sized oceanographic research vessel is not mandatory.

Southern Fried Science in no way endorses the consumption or manufacture of alcoholic beverages on dry or alchohol free research vessels, nor do we condone the manufacture of beer by the underage. Drink responsibly or don’t drink at all.

~Southern Fried Scientist

 

[ftlstrings]

How about using some baby formula in a (severely) modified milk stout?

~M~

 

[ftlstrings]

This thread has officially become the "upscale prison-wine" thread, no offense intended. I am definitely gonna have to take a few stabs at this. (pun intended)

~M~

OK and for my next attempt at GaP.

Strawberry Molasses GaP Drink.

I decided to make only a small 1 gallon test batch of this. So that if it was horrid I could just throw the whole thing at a grand cost of about $5

9 fl. oz. Regular Molasses
1Tbsp Strawberry Jelly
2 Shakes Smoked Paprika
2 Tbsp American Oak Chips
4 fl. oz. Flaked Oats
1 Packet Montrachet.

I heated the water to 155 and added the oats and let them steep for 30min. Then I poured in the molasses while stirring as to not burn the pan like last time. Smoked Paprika and Oak chips went in right before I funneled this into the growler bottle. I didnt boil because I wanted to see the effect of the smoked paprika. This tastes really good. Almost like smokey candy.

 

[ClutchDude]

Any updates on this? I've somehow ended up here and too many loose ends are open.

Starrfish's turn out drinkable? Did anyone else try something?

 

[Freezeblade]

Nothing new from me, although I was going to combine this with some home-malting once school gets out for summer I think.

 

[starrfish]

very drinkable.. very ginger spicy with nice asian 5 spice at back of tounge. carbonated with brown sugar... just for kicks... no sour note from brown shug carbonation. let sit for 2 months before bottling.

side note if ingredients where free (apocalyto loot and pillage) I'd brew again, it wasn't a jailhouse wine... almost beer like... I liked and some friends didn't spit It out. kind of like a dark ginger beer with a good twang.

that being said... if i'd have to PAY for the ingredients again... it would be cost prohibitve to do 5 whole gallons!

over all would call it a success! would cover the taste of bad wild game stew! raccoon or possum caught in snare! would also get a buzz going and settle uneasy stomach! (ginger is medicinal)! have 1 bottle left to see how it stands up againt time with no hops and realitvly low alcohol.

"The cannons don't thunder, ther'es nothing to plunder... I'm an over 40 victim of fate arriving to late"....... until the apocolypse when I can brew this again and charge what the market will bear! come see the "beer" man. doing a hopless olde ale for my bday 9+ % woo hoo

 

[chefmike]

I don't know that anyone is still doing this, but if you all start another experiment, this may be of help: bananas contain both Alpha and Beta amylase and could be helpful in converting grain from the grocery store.

Random, but hey, those aussies are tearing it up!

I think it comes from a bunch of folks working on gluten free beer ideas.

 

[Revvy]

I don't know that anyone is still doing this, but if you all start another experiment, this may be of help: bananas contain both Alpha and Beta amylase and could be helpful in converting grain from the grocery store.

Random, but hey, those aussies are tearing it up!

I think it comes from a bunch of folks working on gluten free beer ideas.

That was an amazing read!!!! What a cool idea!

 

[riromero]

There's so many posts here that I quickly became lost...

Everytime I cook Malt-O-Meal it smells exactly like a beer mash. Is using Malt-O-Meal hot cereal considered cheating?

 

[chefmike]

can you buy it at the grocery store? Then start brewing tiger!

 

[DonkeyShoes]

Just read this wikipedia article on malted milk:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malted_milk -- Malted milk is a powdered food product made from a mixture of malted barley, wheat flour, and whole milk, which is evaporated until it forms a powder.

Malt powder comes in two forms: diastatic and non-diastatic. Diastatic malt contains enzymes that break down starch into sugar; this is the form bakers add to bread dough to help the dough rise and create a good crust. Non-diastatic malt has no active enzymes and is used primarily for flavor, mostly in beverages. It sometimes contains sugar, coloring agents, and other additives.

So apparently you can buy diastatic malt powder. I've never looked for it before.

 

[MacBruver]

Very interesting stuff!! I always wondered about using something like malt-o-meal.. precisely because the first time that I smelled wort boiling on the stove, it reminded me of the smell of a hot bowl of malt-o-meal as a kid.

I think I'll give that a try at some point here, just malt-o-meal and some oats, bread yeast, and who knows what for the bittering.

 

[Retroviridae]

After reading through all these posts, I was curious why several people's mashes with "grocery store" amylases did not convert. I think one major reason is that we can't expect the amylases from other sources to work at the same pH/temperatures we usually use for malt-derived amylases.

According to the Beano product info, at least some of the enzymes in Beano are deactivated at 54 degrees C (129 F). So normal mash temps may not work.

(Source: http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.phar...raphs/CPS- (General Monographs- B)/BEANO.html)

 

[Retroviridae]

And here's some info on amylase activity from bananas from a 2006 Journal of Food Science article (http://doi.wiley.com/10.1111/j.1365-2621.1981.tb04183.x):

1. They used the Cavendish cultivar of banana, which is the normal "grocery store" banana at least here in the US. The "yellow" stage of ripeness has the most amylase activity.

2. The amylase activity is in the cytoplasm of the banana cells. The authors of this paper used a blender to homogenize the banana pulp, in order to break open as many cells as possible.

3. The amylase activity is 80% alpha-amylase.

4. The amylase is most active at pH 5.5-7.0, which I think is a little higher than wort.

5. The amylase is most active at around 37 degrees C (98.6 F). The amylase is quickly destroyed above 62 deg. C (144 F). So normal mash temps are bad.

 

[MacBruver]

5. The amylase is most active at around 37 degrees C (98.6 F). The amylase is quickly destroyed above 62 deg. C (144 F). So normal mash temps are bad.

Interesting stuff. Where did you see the 37C figure? I only see the 62C in the abstract. I've found some other references that state that there is more beta amylase activity in riper fruit (makes sense- more smaller sugars to chew on.) Perhaps a blend of yellow and yellow/brown bananas would yield the best results.

 

[Retroviridae]

Peak activity around 37C is in figure 4 of the actual article. This particular article mentions that beta amylase activity exists, but they don't measure it except to say the amylase activity is ~80% alpha. They didn't compare beta amylase activity to fruit ripeness like they did for alpha.

One random abstract I saw while searching, though, did suggest that this alpha amylase is the only amylase in the fruit that is able to disrupt whole starch granules, suggesting that it is one of the first amylases involved in the ripening process.
I forget where I saw this article on banana ripening, but one other factoid I saw said that these banana amylases are naturally inhibited in green bananas by tannins. During ripening, these tannins are removed/destroyed, allowing amylase to sweeten the banana. Perhaps the tannins are why green bananas taste puckery/astringent? Not all tannins are the same, so its an open question whether the tannins from cereal grains in the mash will inhibit the banana amylase.

 

[MacBruver]

I don't think there will be any issues with tannins- I believe they are constrained mostly to the husks of the grains, and anything with a husk on it (besides corn) is pretty hard to find in a grocery store.

I also found this article: http://www.mbaa.com/pdfs/TQfeature/32005Mashing_Unmalted.pdf

The table on page 2 is especially interesting. The two things missing are alpha amylase, and beta glucan. Bananas can take care of the a-amylase... and fortunately there's at least _some_ b-glucan there, so a really long glucan rest and a cereal mash might work.

 

[MacBruver]

Hmm... wonder whether my grocery store has any of this. It's basically a coctail of every enzyme needed, plus more: http://www.webvitamins.com/product.aspx?id=23816


Amylase
Protease
Invertase
Beta-Glucanase
Alphagalactosidase
Phytase
Xylanase

 

[thepyrofish]

Hmm... wonder whether my grocery store has any of this. It's basically a coctail of every enzyme needed, plus more: http://www.webvitamins.com/product.aspx?id=23816


Amylase
Protease
Invertase
Beta-Glucanase
Alphagalactosidase
Phytase
Xylanase

Ok, so this thread has me inspired. I was at walmart with SWMBO and I figured if I stayed in the grocery/pharmaceutical isles I was basically in a grocery store. I found some Swiss Natural digestive enzymes quite similar to what you're talking about. I also have pot barley, steel cut oats, corn, bakers yeast, a lime and rice. I don't know if all of that will make it into the brew but I'm giving this a shot tonight. Pics to follow! :rockin:

On further thinking, I don't really have any clue how much of this enzyme cocktail to put in... I'm assuming too much couldn't do a lot of damage, right? They say you can take 1 or 2 caps at a time up to 6 a day so I don't think I'm risking anything by putting quite a few in there. I'll probably start around a half dozen and see.

Also, I thought this would be a great example of post-apocalyptic brewing as I am a noob (2 batches so fat, both extract w/ steeping grains) and have never done any kind of a mash before. If this turns out even remotely drinkable I'll be ecstatic!

 

[Brew-Happy]

Haven't been able to keep up with the thread and all, but I noticed something today.

Brewed a porter today, so I had the aromas in my mind. I also roasted some peanuts as well. I get some raw ones from work, so I have been experimenting with home roasting.

What I noticed is the dark roasted peanuts were REALLY similar to roasted malts, especially the chocolate malts.

My suggestion is buying some raw peanuts in bags or bulk and trying some different roasting times for flavors. I would not put the shells into the mash but the peanuts should work really well.

These were unsalted raw peanuts btw.

 

[samljer]

It took me litterally 3 hours to read this thread, in a way where i wasnt skimming and took in ALL the information from start to finish.
First off, wow, this thing is very old too

Grats to Tenchiro for getting this going, its a very usefull skill to have i think
Grocery store brewing. With wine being easy to do!
"Crush almost any fruit and natural yeast will do the work 90% of the time lol"
but beer is of course, a new story. anyhow....


From what i got from everything in this thread this is what i plan on trying:

Grain Source:
Raisin bran, Frosted flakes, and Wheetabix "in about a 3:1:3 mix ratio"

Malt Source:
Malted Powder Milk or Malteesers (Stout or Amber choice really i would think)
(But thats just color, malteesers probably wont make it a "STOUT" lol)

HOPS source
Alphalfa Sprouts (Had lots of options but this one just HAS to be best id think)

For sugar, I would expect white or dextrose is the easy way out lol
so ill be using Molasses "Which would probably mix better with the maltesers option as well, but still undecided"


My grocery store has bulk bins with both PEARL and POT barley
but since 90% of them dont im going to go ahead and avoid using it
plus it feels like cheating
Ill also not be adding any malty goodness "beverages of malt like ppl did here"
I dont think it cheating, but i want to see what the flavor will be with JUST local goods" They also carry something with a red label and the only thing writtin on it says "Malt Syrup 455ml" in black, i will not be using that either. (the bottles also seem to look like they been there since woodstock but i wont go there...)

For yeast, the only thing they carry is Flechmans 8g packets and "Active Dry Yeast" in the bulk area. Since most stores dont have bulk, as before ill stick to the packets.
i do have top fermenting ale yeast off hand, but ill stick to grocery store stuff.

For bitter ill be using citrus option, rather then spice and herb.

Reason for this is herbs and things often are medicinal and many should not be
taken with alcohol either like St John Wort (which by the way is bitter as anything if someone else doesnt care about medicinal things) simply remove some of the powder from the capsuls. grocery stores have it in the dietary supplements and pharmal sections. lol its properties is anti-depresant and blood thinner so yea. anyway...


Ill be adding 1 banana. yellow with brown spots for enzymes, and ill be doing the wort at 65*F "perfect for banana born enzymes" will take 4 hours at least because im using just 1 banana, not alot of enzymes at work. but it WILL work.

alphalpa wont be added till boil is done, "last minute only"
Going to pitch bread yeast at 25*C if im not mistaken...?


I will post results as They come, and i will not give this one up!
Sorry for long post.
IF anyone has ideas/suggestions i wont be doing this for 2 more days.
and ill check here often.




EDIT TO ADD FINING INFORMATION
Oh people, btw, grocery store Gelatin (plain) makes a great agent to clear your stuff "fining i think its called?"
so wouldnt be cheating if you wanted to start clearing your experiments for whatever reason.
just i do it with wine all the time and since nobody here discussed clearing i think this information
is a fantastic addition

 

[samljer]

For grain I used Raisin Bran alone

1) Sat it for 1 hour in hot water @ 85*C "there was (some) activity with enzymes"
without having to add anything else, like beano. which was great.

2) Then added more hot water and melted in maltesers for the maltiness
then boiled lightly for 45mins, then for 2mins boiled with alphalfa sprouts (Apparently lots of danish beers use it, it was AWESOME too!) It also got alot thicker after this.
And the hop taste it added was terrific. and the smell too, was shocked actually. anyway.
Also put 1/4C white sugar during boil.
I filtered everything out for the boil, some ppl leave it there, i didnt.

3) lime peel for bittering.

now i have 2x2L bottles brewing "carboy is 25L capacity and didnt wanna make that much for an experiment"

Wort tasted like a holiday stout with a hint of chocolait and raisin (i know im bad;p )
Mouth feel was smooooth like a butter rum.
It wasnt terribly sweet, but enough to let you know that the enzymes worked.

I was pretty impressed, expecting about 4.5% ABV
I cant measure gravity, dont have tool, but i can measure final
ABV I can post what it did come out to when its done
its on day 2 of fermenting.


Going to use 1tsp of dextrose to bottle for carbonation.

 

[brewmonk]

hmmm. a raspery ale or framboise, with a lavender bouquet.spiced with mint, anise and wolfsbane. then aged in a watermellon!@