effigyoffaith
Well-Known Member
not to mention that in the presence of water aspirin degrades to salicylic acid and acetic acid(vinegar), not a good flavor for most beers.
The GaP (Grocery and Produce) Beer Experiment
- Thread starter Tenchiro
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
Kilgore_Trout
Well-Known Member
Aspirin is not what you're thinking of king. Most major pain relievers aren't recommended for alcohol, but for different reasons. Aspirin messes with your stomach.
Tylenol is the big one for your liver, it can do quite a bit of damage.
Tylenol is the big one for your liver, it can do quite a bit of damage.
Unlike a Bull
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hmm, your idea of malting alfalfa gave me an idea Revvy. Or maybe more of a recollection? When I was younger I had parakeets as pets. often times, their food bowl would get cleaned by dumping it into the yard, hosing it off and refilling it with fresh food. I soon found that new and strange grasses would grow where their seeds were dumped.
I'm thinking I can find some bird food hopefully without preservatives at my local grocer, and sort out the smaller millet seeds with a spaghetti strainer. Said seeds could then be soaked in water overnight, and placed between two moist paper towels until sprouts or rootlets appear and then slightly roasted to halt growth. If i understand correctly, that should give me malted millet with some pretty good enymatic power.
I'm thinking of making a one gallon batch of this millet beer using 2 lbs of millet (i'll take 8 ozs of the malted millet and continue roasting it until it's approximately the color of chocolate malt.) I will use 1 oz of rolled oats and also roast until chocolately looking. I will do a step infusion mash until iodine test shows full conversion, or 90 minutes has elapsed. 8 ozs of decaf coffee will be added post boil for bittering. I'm thinking I'll want to harvest yeast from SN pale ale to ferment with. I'll use malta as a starter for the yeast. I also think I'll call it "bird brain porter" or "I poured it down the sink".
I took some inspiration from this page Life's a Garden...Dig It!: Malting Gluten-free Grains
Problems: I have never done AG before, and this seems like a pretty difficult place to start. But, i think it might be a good jumping off point because of the small volume (though this will make temp regulation more difficult) and I won't really be worried about if this comes out tasting good or not. I'll really just be hoping for full conversion of starches.
I don't really know what kind of SG to expect from millet. I've found that uncooked, and unmalted it has slightly more starch per lb than barley, but that's about it. I don't really know the bittering power of coffee either. I really just kind of guessed.
i don't know if little millet hulls will form a decent filter. I may have to use corn husks.
If I don't get starch conversion, I won't know if it's something I did in the malting process, or my mashing as I have no precedent to say that my mashing should have worked.
Finally, I won't be able to get around to this until spring break (WOOO!) because school takes up so much of my time. I think before then though I can work on harvesting SNPA yeast and just store it in the fridge.
Any help/insight from the more experienced brewers would be much appreciated. Sorry for the long post.
I'm thinking I can find some bird food hopefully without preservatives at my local grocer, and sort out the smaller millet seeds with a spaghetti strainer. Said seeds could then be soaked in water overnight, and placed between two moist paper towels until sprouts or rootlets appear and then slightly roasted to halt growth. If i understand correctly, that should give me malted millet with some pretty good enymatic power.
I'm thinking of making a one gallon batch of this millet beer using 2 lbs of millet (i'll take 8 ozs of the malted millet and continue roasting it until it's approximately the color of chocolate malt.) I will use 1 oz of rolled oats and also roast until chocolately looking. I will do a step infusion mash until iodine test shows full conversion, or 90 minutes has elapsed. 8 ozs of decaf coffee will be added post boil for bittering. I'm thinking I'll want to harvest yeast from SN pale ale to ferment with. I'll use malta as a starter for the yeast. I also think I'll call it "bird brain porter" or "I poured it down the sink".
I took some inspiration from this page Life's a Garden...Dig It!: Malting Gluten-free Grains
Problems: I have never done AG before, and this seems like a pretty difficult place to start. But, i think it might be a good jumping off point because of the small volume (though this will make temp regulation more difficult) and I won't really be worried about if this comes out tasting good or not. I'll really just be hoping for full conversion of starches.
I don't really know what kind of SG to expect from millet. I've found that uncooked, and unmalted it has slightly more starch per lb than barley, but that's about it. I don't really know the bittering power of coffee either. I really just kind of guessed.
i don't know if little millet hulls will form a decent filter. I may have to use corn husks.
If I don't get starch conversion, I won't know if it's something I did in the malting process, or my mashing as I have no precedent to say that my mashing should have worked.
Finally, I won't be able to get around to this until spring break (WOOO!) because school takes up so much of my time. I think before then though I can work on harvesting SNPA yeast and just store it in the fridge.
Any help/insight from the more experienced brewers would be much appreciated. Sorry for the long post.
starrfish
Well-Known Member
Found this over the weekend at the local piggly wiggly grocery store:
Food For Life Ezekiel 4:9 Organic Sprouted Grain Cereal, Golden Flax in a 16oz box
Key words "Organic 'Sprouted Grain' Cereal" I think i've found a usable base grain, along with sweet potato, rice, corn grits, maybe some cornstarch, and brown sugar if gravity is way low.
will spice with fresh ginger, and asian 5 spice powder with some crushed peppercorns for bitter. I picked up some "malta" Only going to use a few 7 oz bottles to get closer to a beer-like finished product. (cheating I know, but I have to get rid of it since i bought it, stuff is pretty awful on it's own.)
Bought some whole-grain bread yeast, but i'm only going to use this if I can't get an active fermentation from some wild yeast on some raisins.
I will be trying to culture up a Chimay yeast to see if I can use that on an upcoming Belgian triple.
Food For Life Ezekiel 4:9 Organic Sprouted Grain Cereal, Golden Flax in a 16oz box
Key words "Organic 'Sprouted Grain' Cereal" I think i've found a usable base grain, along with sweet potato, rice, corn grits, maybe some cornstarch, and brown sugar if gravity is way low.
will spice with fresh ginger, and asian 5 spice powder with some crushed peppercorns for bitter. I picked up some "malta" Only going to use a few 7 oz bottles to get closer to a beer-like finished product. (cheating I know, but I have to get rid of it since i bought it, stuff is pretty awful on it's own.)
Bought some whole-grain bread yeast, but i'm only going to use this if I can't get an active fermentation from some wild yeast on some raisins.
I will be trying to culture up a Chimay yeast to see if I can use that on an upcoming Belgian triple.
starrfish
Well-Known Member
Food for Life product info
Food For Life Baking Co., Inc. | Sprouted Grain Difference | Ezekiel 4:9®
Ezekiel 4:9® Organic Sprouted Whole Grain Products
View All Ezekiel 4:9 Organic Sprouted Whole Grain Products, click here
Ezekiel 4:9® Organic Sprouted Whole Grain Products
Inspired by the Holy Scripture verse Ezekiel 4:9., "Take also unto thee Wheat, and Barley, and beans, and lentils, and millet, and Spelt, and put them in one vessel, and make bread of it..."
Ezekiel 4:9® Organic Sprouted Whole Grain Products are:
* Flourless,
* Organic,
* Complete Protein,
* and Sprouted Whole Grain
We discovered when these six grains and legumes are sprouted and combined, an amazing thing happens. A complete protein is created that closely parallels the protein found in milk and eggs. In fact, the protein quality is so high, that it is 84.3% as efficient as the highest recognized source of protein, containing all 9 essential amino acids. There are 18 amino acids present in this unique bread – from all vegetable sources – naturally balanced in nature.
Ezekiel 4:9® Bread, made from freshly sprouted organically grown grains, is naturally flavorful and bursting with nutrients. Rich in protein, vitamins, minerals and natural fiber with no added fat. Try it served warm to release its exceptionally rich nutty flavor.
Food For Life Baking Co., Inc. | Sprouted Grain Difference | Ezekiel 4:9®
Ezekiel 4:9® Organic Sprouted Whole Grain Products
View All Ezekiel 4:9 Organic Sprouted Whole Grain Products, click here
Ezekiel 4:9® Organic Sprouted Whole Grain Products
Inspired by the Holy Scripture verse Ezekiel 4:9., "Take also unto thee Wheat, and Barley, and beans, and lentils, and millet, and Spelt, and put them in one vessel, and make bread of it..."
Ezekiel 4:9® Organic Sprouted Whole Grain Products are:
* Flourless,
* Organic,
* Complete Protein,
* and Sprouted Whole Grain
We discovered when these six grains and legumes are sprouted and combined, an amazing thing happens. A complete protein is created that closely parallels the protein found in milk and eggs. In fact, the protein quality is so high, that it is 84.3% as efficient as the highest recognized source of protein, containing all 9 essential amino acids. There are 18 amino acids present in this unique bread – from all vegetable sources – naturally balanced in nature.
Ezekiel 4:9® Bread, made from freshly sprouted organically grown grains, is naturally flavorful and bursting with nutrients. Rich in protein, vitamins, minerals and natural fiber with no added fat. Try it served warm to release its exceptionally rich nutty flavor.
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
starrfish
Well-Known Member
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Finished the BIG bottle of Cheap Wine. Brewing this experiment Friday night or Saturday morning. will take pics... and post details of process and problems on Monday!
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Finished the BIG bottle of Cheap Wine. Brewing this experiment Friday night or Saturday morning. will take pics... and post details of process and problems on Monday!
Zymurgrafi
Well-Known Member
Okay I overlooked this thread when it was in its prime but boredom got the best of me today and I read it all.
Wow! I cannot believe you folks are so dead set on not trying the obvious! Beano? Come on! If my grocery store has it surely others do, I am in a pretty rural area. Why not buy some of this?
and malt it? Okay yeah it is "hulless" ,which actually means it has a thinner easier to digest husk. You could find something else to aid in sparging though surely.
they also have:
and many other varieties of wheat and other grains you could malt!
Heck, even the joblots store has Bob's redmill stuff!
Or perhaps I missed something and you are against using grain?
As to the Koji kin (Aspergillus Oryzae) you won't find that in a regular grocery store. You might in an Asian market. You also won't be able to get it from just rice either. Rice you buy in the store is polished and processed. If there ever where any koji spores on the rice it would be gone. Additionally you need to steam the rice and then sprinkle the spores on the warm rice. Steaming it would kill it. It is a mold you can grow on rice and it is used in a symbiotic relationship with yeast to ferment. Essentially the mold breaks down and converts the rice starch simultaneously and the yeast then eats it.
There is another enzyme of which I do not know the scientific name that you could grow. There is a drink in Korea that is similar to sake but uses an enzyme called nuruk (pronounced new rook with the r pronounced as if you are about to make an l sound) which is a mold that grows on wheat. I have made it and I have also bought it at a Korean market. It smells like fermented sweaty socks! Take some whole wheat berries and crack them. Mix them in some warm water to make a rough dough. Wrap it in cheesecloth and let it sit for about 3 days in a warm place (80F or so). It should form a mold and will have dried out. Crush it up into a powder. You can then use it to ferment some steamed rice with yeast. It is a highly acquired taste and is like drinking cold (as it is served cold) slightly carbonated alcoholic sweet porridge! I actually like it when made right.
How this would help you folks I don't know as both koji-kin and nuruk only work on rice as far as I know. i don't think they will convert other grains.
Wow! I cannot believe you folks are so dead set on not trying the obvious! Beano? Come on! If my grocery store has it surely others do, I am in a pretty rural area. Why not buy some of this?
and malt it? Okay yeah it is "hulless" ,which actually means it has a thinner easier to digest husk. You could find something else to aid in sparging though surely.
they also have:
and many other varieties of wheat and other grains you could malt!
Heck, even the joblots store has Bob's redmill stuff!
Or perhaps I missed something and you are against using grain?
As to the Koji kin (Aspergillus Oryzae) you won't find that in a regular grocery store. You might in an Asian market. You also won't be able to get it from just rice either. Rice you buy in the store is polished and processed. If there ever where any koji spores on the rice it would be gone. Additionally you need to steam the rice and then sprinkle the spores on the warm rice. Steaming it would kill it. It is a mold you can grow on rice and it is used in a symbiotic relationship with yeast to ferment. Essentially the mold breaks down and converts the rice starch simultaneously and the yeast then eats it.
There is another enzyme of which I do not know the scientific name that you could grow. There is a drink in Korea that is similar to sake but uses an enzyme called nuruk (pronounced new rook with the r pronounced as if you are about to make an l sound) which is a mold that grows on wheat. I have made it and I have also bought it at a Korean market. It smells like fermented sweaty socks! Take some whole wheat berries and crack them. Mix them in some warm water to make a rough dough. Wrap it in cheesecloth and let it sit for about 3 days in a warm place (80F or so). It should form a mold and will have dried out. Crush it up into a powder. You can then use it to ferment some steamed rice with yeast. It is a highly acquired taste and is like drinking cold (as it is served cold) slightly carbonated alcoholic sweet porridge! I actually like it when made right.
How this would help you folks I don't know as both koji-kin and nuruk only work on rice as far as I know. i don't think they will convert other grains.
Freezeblade
Well-Known Member
I live in a pretty big city, and I've never seen any type of whole grain besides corn in any of the stores, of course I haven't looked in whole-foods yet, but the big chains don't carry anything like that here. and I've tried bean-o before, bad times, didn't work very well.
Zymurgrafi
Well-Known Member
My local supermarket is a chain but they aren't known for having anything too "wild". The "ethnic food" section is a quarter of an aisle and has such exotic things as taco shells, and canned chop suey. Okay it ain't that bad but it is not really that great. They do have that goya drink.
Point is, they also have a "health food" section which has the Bob's Redmill products. it is a nationally distributed product I am fairly certain. Comes from the Ozarks in MO. A big City like Sand Diego ought to have something like that if bumblefork Northeastern Vermont does. Did I mention there is a town not too far from me that did not have electricity until the 1960's?
chumprock
Well-Known Member
I actually recognize a couple of those zombies from Land of the Dead.
flowerysong
Well-Known Member
Why would you think that? The main enzyme produced by Aspergillus oryzae is alpha amylase, which will happily convert starch from any source.
As regards nuruk: the main difference between nuruk and koji is that koji is produced by a controlled fermentation based on a pure culture of Aspergillus oryzae, while nuruk is spontaneously fermented and contains a wide range of microorganisms. A study[0] found that nuruk typically contains Aspergillus oryzae, Aspergillus niger, and Rhizopus, as well as various bacteria and yeasts.
Another option which I explored (I did a small test batch to test its viability, but haven't yet done a full-scale batch) is Monascus purpureus, which is another amylolytic mold. It's found on red yeast rice, which I obtained from my local Asian grocer in dried form and used it and a packet of dry yeast to inoculate a batch of steamed rice. Cooperative fermentation between the mold, yeast, and some opportunistic Lactobacilli produced a tangy, mildly alcoholic beverage that happened to be pink.
[0] Kim, C.J. 1968. Microbiological and enzymological studies on Takju brewing. J. Korean Agricul. Chem. Soc., 60. 69-99.
thejazzer
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My oat beers are flopping. In reality all I am trying to do is ferment the starches in the oats. My last batch which I flavoured with ginger tasted of watery ginger without the slightest sign of a head. My ginger ale tasted much nicer.
For me it's a big learning curve but I am learning.
At my supermarket they sell quinoa. So I am going to try germinating and then malting quinoa, corn and soya. I don't think the corn actually contains the enzyme, but generally speaking natural corn is so sweet anyway it might be worth just mashing a tin of sweet corn (no additives) (and caramelising some for colour).
A couple of the links I followed on here showed it was possible to germinate and malt rice and quinoa and that any extra grain such as the oats need to be added at the malting stage so their starches are converted by the acting enzyme. OK so I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks so this is all new to me.
And if the japanese are using soya I want to know how.
As for the zombie apocalypse, isn't it likely the zombies will congregate in the stores and prevent us from obtaining produce.
For me it's a big learning curve but I am learning.
At my supermarket they sell quinoa. So I am going to try germinating and then malting quinoa, corn and soya. I don't think the corn actually contains the enzyme, but generally speaking natural corn is so sweet anyway it might be worth just mashing a tin of sweet corn (no additives) (and caramelising some for colour).
A couple of the links I followed on here showed it was possible to germinate and malt rice and quinoa and that any extra grain such as the oats need to be added at the malting stage so their starches are converted by the acting enzyme. OK so I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks so this is all new to me.
And if the japanese are using soya I want to know how.
As for the zombie apocalypse, isn't it likely the zombies will congregate in the stores and prevent us from obtaining produce.
starrfish
Well-Known Member
Ok brewed mine (pics to come)
Cultured yeast from 3 bottles of homebrew Using 3-4 oz of malta goya (couldn't bring myself to use bread yeast esp. considering the price of the cereal!!!)
2 lbs sprouted grain breakfast cereal - mash 1.5 hours 155°
.75lb sweet potato - cooked 30 min and added to mash
.25lb rice - cooked 30 min and added to mash
.25 grits - cooked 30 min and added to mash
1/4 cup cornstarch - cooked 30 min and added to mash
1/4 cup brown sugar - added to boil
3 7oz bottles of Malta Goya - added to boil (added a nice malty color)
1 TBS crushed peppercorns (white green red and black) 60 min
1 tsp asian 5 spice powder 30 min
.25 oz ginger 15 min
1/4 tsp asian 5 spice powder 5 min
3 small boxes raisins (for wild yeast)
Cultured yeast from 3 bottles of homebrew
mash still registered deep purple with iodine test after 1 1/2 hours at 155°. sparged it and moved on to boil
Took forever to boil down to 1 gallon
OG 1.047
between the raisins and the cultured yeast, fermentation started in less than 24 hours
Blowing a VERY fruity smell from jug.
OG 1.047
FG: to come
Anticipating between 4.0 and 4.5% ABV
Might Actually come out drinkable. Wort was slightly peppery, slightly malty and a unidentifiable fruitiness. wort was THICK. Thick junk is settling out as fermentation runs on.
Cultured yeast from 3 bottles of homebrew Using 3-4 oz of malta goya (couldn't bring myself to use bread yeast esp. considering the price of the cereal!!!)
2 lbs sprouted grain breakfast cereal - mash 1.5 hours 155°
.75lb sweet potato - cooked 30 min and added to mash
.25lb rice - cooked 30 min and added to mash
.25 grits - cooked 30 min and added to mash
1/4 cup cornstarch - cooked 30 min and added to mash
1/4 cup brown sugar - added to boil
3 7oz bottles of Malta Goya - added to boil (added a nice malty color)
1 TBS crushed peppercorns (white green red and black) 60 min
1 tsp asian 5 spice powder 30 min
.25 oz ginger 15 min
1/4 tsp asian 5 spice powder 5 min
3 small boxes raisins (for wild yeast)
Cultured yeast from 3 bottles of homebrew
mash still registered deep purple with iodine test after 1 1/2 hours at 155°. sparged it and moved on to boil
Took forever to boil down to 1 gallon
OG 1.047
between the raisins and the cultured yeast, fermentation started in less than 24 hours
Blowing a VERY fruity smell from jug.
OG 1.047
FG: to come
Anticipating between 4.0 and 4.5% ABV
Might Actually come out drinkable. Wort was slightly peppery, slightly malty and a unidentifiable fruitiness. wort was THICK. Thick junk is settling out as fermentation runs on.
WOW, I wanna see pics, AND hear how this one turns out...we might have a "winner."
starrfish
Well-Known Member
pics to come Monday (forgot my camera today) and home mac is "not well"
starrfish
Well-Known Member
PICS of Zombie Apocalypto
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Should have probably strained this through a muslin bag or coffee filter... will loose a good amount to the sludge... But smells really nice fermenting away.
Might try this again using real malts and some hops, but keep spice mix if comes out ok. Still going strong, probably take at LEAST another week or two until bottle.
Will prime with brown sugar... 1/5 of a cup +/-
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Should have probably strained this through a muslin bag or coffee filter... will loose a good amount to the sludge... But smells really nice fermenting away.
Might try this again using real malts and some hops, but keep spice mix if comes out ok. Still going strong, probably take at LEAST another week or two until bottle.
Will prime with brown sugar... 1/5 of a cup +/-
I gotta say the fermenting pictures, with the raisins floating on the surface have to be some of the most discusting pics I have ever seen it kinds looks like eyeballs, or other body parts...
It looks like something that zombies would drinks.
I cant wait to see, hear how this ends up.
It looks like something that zombies would drinks.
I cant wait to see, hear how this ends up.
starrfish
Well-Known Member
Mash looked like vomit with orange chunks, first runnings looked like cloudy pee, spent mash looked like diarrea all kids of bodily functions on this disgusting little experiment.
Used raisins with beer yeast before in a Cider looked the same... did add some wild character.
I'm REALLY surprised how good it smells...
Used raisins with beer yeast before in a Cider looked the same... did add some wild character.
I'm REALLY surprised how good it smells...
bendavanza
Well-Known Member
Wow this is a great read. I'm curious about the Ezekiel bread, I know I've left (a different brand) sprouted grain bread out of the fridge/freezer for a while and it started fermenting on it's own. It was kind of shocking, just a few days out and when I opened the bag I got a whiff of, well, fermentation. No mold, but a beer/wine ferment and alcohol kind of smell. Of course sprouted grain bread may not be very available in an apocalyptic state.
bluehouse
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We have an asian section in our local grocery, found something called malt sugar looks like a light version of molasses, purchased several containers of this. Also found palm sugar which turns out to be VERY sweet stuff.
using 24 oz steel cut oatmeal
24 oz malt sugar
12 oz palm sugar
yeast harvested from last brew (actually a wine yeast)
5 spice mixture
lime zest for bittering
fermentation started within 3 hours of yeast introduction.
using 24 oz steel cut oatmeal
24 oz malt sugar
12 oz palm sugar
yeast harvested from last brew (actually a wine yeast)
5 spice mixture
lime zest for bittering
fermentation started within 3 hours of yeast introduction.
Cool, Keep us posted!!!
starrfish
Well-Known Member
sounds great! some asian peppers might be good in there too! any pics? did you get an O.G.?
mine might be ready to bottle fermentation seems to have subsided. I think the floaters ar keeping a good amount of yeast from dropping down... still have about a 1/3 of the gallon of scum at the bottom. really wish I would have filtered with a strainer or coffee filter... going to loose a lot when it comes to bottling.
(using brown sugar to carb)
bluehouse
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My O.G. was 1.07.
it doesn't look bad other than the odd bits of lime zest which I thought I had filtered out pretty well that seem to be clumping together and floating to the top. Sorry no pic's my laptop died and I use the internet at work now so not uploading beer pics to office system.
it doesn't look bad other than the odd bits of lime zest which I thought I had filtered out pretty well that seem to be clumping together and floating to the top. Sorry no pic's my laptop died and I use the internet at work now so not uploading beer pics to office system.
EvilTOJ
Well-Known Member
Oh man, I completely forgot about this thread again. Did we ever find anything with enough diastatic power that would work to convert starches to sugars?
starrfish
Well-Known Member
"OG 1.047
FG: to come
Anticipating between 4.0 and 4.5% ABV"
Failed Iodine test Registered dark purple after an hour long mash... but got a good amount of conversion (forgot to take gravity before adding malta... Doh drunk brewing)
Still ended up with 1.047 OG. so I got a good amount of conversion but no where near complete.
will be bottling this weekend priming with brown sugar.
Will post FG
FG: to come
Anticipating between 4.0 and 4.5% ABV"
Failed Iodine test Registered dark purple after an hour long mash... but got a good amount of conversion (forgot to take gravity before adding malta... Doh drunk brewing)
Still ended up with 1.047 OG. so I got a good amount of conversion but no where near complete.
will be bottling this weekend priming with brown sugar.
Will post FG
bluehouse
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- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
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This was brewed on 2/10/09, the gravity has stopped at 1.01 for two days now. It looks a little dark & heavy, has a pretty good taste, does not of course have a hop aroma but the lime zest did a pretty good job of bittering. If the gravity has not moved tommorow I am going to bottle it up and see what we get.
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