The craft beer bubble is busting.

[Qhrumphf]

In MD we never had the bubble to begin with due to our archaic/insane/corrupt dem party controlled beer laws. Local brewery near me Baltimore County Brewing Company is always packed and its off the path in an industrial park.

It's the distributors and restaurants/bars that fight beer advancement. The former always want their cut and are one of the most active lobbies at all levels of government. The latter cry foul in particular when taprooms aren't held to the same standards as places with full liquor licenses, and are a big reason why some states still can't legally have taprooms, or MUST also sell food.

Some states are far behind the times. Maryland is one but they're FAR from the worst.

But it has nothing to do with partisan politics. Keep that to the debate section kthxbai.

 

[mongoose33]

Mongoose buddy your killing me. Please help me to the light. What makes your list?

Off the top of my head here is a list of beers that I saw tonight that I would consider exceptional. Some of them are, no?

Prarie bomb
Old rasputin xxi
Barrel aged yetti
Crooked stave petite raspberry and blueberry
Weldwerks juicy bits
Delirium tremens
St bernardus
Duvel
Chimay reserve
Elevated ipa
Original sin McIntosh cider
M43
Ratio genius
They had tons others in bottles beyond what I normally get.
Jeez I could go on.

I've never had any of the above, so I can't say anything about them.

I had two beers at Pisgah Brewing in Black Mountain NC last June that I considered exceptional. One was a rye stout, which was amazing because while I like rye a lot, stouts aren't my thing. This, however, was tremendous. They also had a Schwarzbier that was, well, very similar to the one I brew. Tasty, great finish, wonderful beer. I could have sat there drinking it all day.

What drove me to home brewing was Potosi Brewing Company--the site of the National Brewery Museum in Potosi, WI--changing the recipe of the best beer I'd ever had. It's a beer called Cave Ale, a sort of cross between an amber, a bitter, and something else. Stunning, stunning beer. Except they changed the recipe, it began to have a sour finish, lost some of the deep flavors the original boasted. ABV went from 6.5 to 5.5. The original was a hit locally and had spread to bars in Madison having it on tap.

They had a hit and they changed it. I began home brewing because of that. I've brewed a clone that's pretty close; some say I nailed it, but to me it's still missing something.

*************

One thing to note: when I say that I don't find that many exceptional beers, I am not saying you or anyone else is wrong in liking what you like. See my signature below.

Maybe my palate is different than yours. Probably.

Here's an example: as a rule, I'm not a big fan of barrel-aged stouts. Mostly it's not the stoutiness; it's the whiskey flavor, which typically dominates. It's too much. I do drink whisky, straight and on the rocks, so when I want that type of flavor, that's what I drink. I don't want that dominating a beer, but that's me.

At my local homebrew club meeting Wednesday, one of our locals had a barrel-aged beer he'd produced that I consider exceptional: it had the whiskey flavor without tasting like I was drinking a beer into which someone poured whiskey. It really, truly, was great, beating any barrel-aged beer I've ever had.

Now, that's my palate, maybe your palate would judge it differently. *I* would have another in a New York minute. The guy did a great job with it. Truly exceptional.

To me.

 

[applescrap]

QUOTE="Dgallo, post: 8564865, member: 232777"]You must not understand the cost of running a business

I ran my own small production business for 10+ years, (Not beer) and I know what the costs are.
All I'm saying is that I refuse to pay $6+ for a glass of beer that isn't as good as what I can brew at home.
But the beer guzzling public doesn't have the same standards as I do. They are happy to pay the price for beer that isn't very good, they just don't even think about it.
If a really good band is playing I'll drink Bud Light for $6 and be satisfied, but if its a quiet night at the local pub, I'll skip it. Everyone has different wants, needs and desires and that's why Bud Light makes millions in profits for ABInBev[/QUOTE]


lighten up, I would splash out 6 a beer on shat with friends. All this refusing talk, meh.

 

[applescrap]

OK, I'm off topic here, but thanks form posting. I never heard of Prarie Bomb, but now I'm going to attempt it based on this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/prairie-bomb-clone.454661/page-2
This is why I love homebrewing.....

Haha, right on brother.

 

[applescrap]

I've never had any of the above, so I can't say anything about them.

I had two beers at Pisgah Brewing in Black Mountain NC last June that I considered exceptional. One was a rye stout, which was amazing because while I like rye a lot, stouts aren't my thing. This, however, was tremendous. They also had a Schwarzbier that was, well, very similar to the one I brew. Tasty, great finish, wonderful beer. I could have sat there drinking it all day.

What drove me to home brewing was Potosi Brewing Company--the site of the National Brewery Museum in Potosi, WI--changing the recipe of the best beer I'd ever had. It's a beer called Cave Ale, a sort of cross between an amber, a bitter, and something else. Stunning, stunning beer. Except they changed the recipe, it began to have a sour finish, lost some of the deep flavors the original boasted. ABV went from 6.5 to 5.5. The original was a hit locally and had spread to bars in Madison having it on tap.

They had a hit and they changed it. I began home brewing because of that. I've brewed a clone that's pretty close; some say I nailed it, but to me it's still missing something.

*************

One thing to note: when I say that I don't find that many exceptional beers, I am not saying you or anyone else is wrong in liking what you like. See my signature below.

Maybe my palate is different than yours. Probably.

Here's an example: as a rule, I'm not a big fan of barrel-aged stouts. Mostly it's not the stoutiness; it's the whiskey flavor, which typically dominates. It's too much. I do drink whisky, straight and on the rocks, so when I want that type of flavor, that's what I drink. I don't want that dominating a beer, but that's me.

At my local homebrew club meeting Wednesday, one of our locals had a barrel-aged beer he'd produced that I consider exceptional: it had the whiskey flavor without tasting like I was drinking a beer into which someone poured whiskey. It really, truly, was great, beating any barrel-aged beer I've ever had.

Now, that's my palate, maybe your palate would judge it differently. *I* would have another in a New York minute. The guy did a great job with it. Truly exceptional.

To me.

Awesome! I love homebrew. Hell, nothing beats homebrew. Cheers. Based on this, well you judge for yourself. Don't get me wrong, I would drink a bud light lime if chilling with you, but tonight? Based on reviews I wouldn't even look at that beer. Btw, I remain certain our palates are different, mine being worse, cigar smoking among other.

 

[Bilsch]

lighten up, I would splash out 6 a beer on shat with friends. All this refusing talk, meh.

No. Life is too short to waste time, and liver capacity, drinking meh beer.

 

[Brewfreedom]

It's the distributors and restaurants/bars that fight beer advancement. The former always want their cut and are one of the most active lobbies at all levels of government. The latter cry foul in particular when taprooms aren't held to the same standards as places with full liquor licenses, and are a big reason why some states still can't legally have taprooms, or MUST also sell food.

Some states are far behind the times. Maryland is one but they're FAR from the worst.

But it has nothing to do with partisan politics. Keep that to the debate section kthxbai.

Md is one party rule and the heads of the party do not want craft beer. Franchot tried - went against them and got a$$ hammered w retaliatory legislation aimed at him. Partisan politics unfortunately are very much at play. The beer loving public and taxpayers lose. Orange man bad.

 

[mongoose33]

Awesome! I love homebrew. Hell, nothing beats homebrew. Cheers. Based on this, well you judge for yourself. Don't get me wrong, I would drink a bud light lime if chilling with you, but tonight? Based on reviews I wouldn't even look at that beer. Btw, I remain certain our palates are different, mine being worse, cigar smoking among other.View attachment 620691View attachment 620692

I'm surprised Cave Ale even rates a 3.72. I still cannot believe they took a hit and screwed around with it. Moronic.

Well, it got me into home brewing, so maybe that's the silver lining.

Speaking of chilling, I'm going to try to golf again this year. Last time was July 2015. Bought a mini-membership at my local club, got a cart....all I need to do now is work up to it. I hit a few putts out there on the putting green on Wednesday, sank a few....it seemed to come back pretty readily. Crossing fingers....

 

[SEndorf]

Speaking of chilling, I'm going to try to golf again this year. Last time was July 2015. Bought a mini-membership at my local club, got a cart....all I need to do now is work up to it. I hit a few putts out there on the putting green on Wednesday, sank a few....it seemed to come back pretty readily. Crossing fingers....

[THREAD_DERAIL] Good luck with that. I gave up golf for two reasons. 1) I sucked at it. 2) There are no decent beers on the roaming beer cart. YMMV.... [/THREAD_DERAIL]

 

[applescrap]

Golf derail always welcome here!

 

[madscientist451]

Orange man bad.

They Don't look bad from here.....

 

[applescrap]

No. Life is too short to waste time, and liver capacity, drinking meh beer.

I agree with that. But out with friends or family life is too short to worry about all that, I am sure you get that. I am actually thrilled to see any, even just one quality beer at a restaurant or whatever sometimes. This place by us we go to has 120 taps and killer food. Another has boulder shake porter and one or two others and I am thrilled it's not bud only. Shake is a quality beer. Seriously thrilled. Haha, we went to the fancy restaurant in Fl and they said sorry all we have is chimay, duvel, and palm on tap. I said I would like a coach in the back.

 

[mongoose33]

No. Life is too short to waste time, and liver capacity, drinking meh beer.

I've been trying to explain why I don't constantly try new stuff in hopes (mostly vain) of finding an exceptional beer. The quote above says it all.

Since the odds of finding the next exceptional beer are low, for me to live in pursuit of it is nothing more than, to paraphrase @Bilsch , "wasting my time drinking meh beer."

THAT is why I prefer to drink things I know I like, as opposed to chasing what, to me, are unicorns. Others may have different goals, interests, and tastes, and that's fine. Good thing, in fact--imagine if we were all the same, how that would end up.

 

[Lefou]

Ah my apologies, I just realized I mis-understood the original point by njviking, which is why don't the craft brewers brew a beer similar to the big volume rice beers. I live in the hot, deep south where there are quite a few lighter lagers made.. so around here, there are some lighter beers that would appease the bud / miller fans. I assume that the cooler the climates up north, would likely produce less of the lighter lagers.

Some craft-ish brewers do market their versions of volume lager and ale although you may find distributors in your locale don't have it shipped in.
Founders in Michigan markets their Solid Gold Lager and their All Day IPA here in Jersey. Loooooove their stout but the lager is a cut above the BMC stuff as it has a different hop and slightly more flavor. I've bought enough of the Solid Gold to find it can differ from lot to lot. Some of what I've found has been more cloudy with yeast as opposed to the mildly hazy, but clean hoppy lager I like. In my opinion, it's still good beer and way beyond BMC equivalents.
Leinenkugel's is another brand I can find here in NJ and at home, but the one "kolsch-style" Canoe Paddler ale made with rye I'd buy in Indiana is non-existent in NJ. Go figure.

 

[grampamark]

A local brewpub, called Überbrew, offers a light lager called "Canü". Their beer list describes it as "...something for the light beer drinking friends that you dragged in here, kicking and screaming..." or words to that effect.

 

[papz]

-imagine if we were all the same, how that would end up.

If everyone drove "the same" as i do, traffic would flow much faster and travel times would be decreased. and 90% of all conversations would be about craft beer/cider.

 

[SEndorf]

I've been trying to explain why I don't constantly try new stuff in hopes (mostly vain) of finding an exceptional beer. The quote above says it all.

Since the odds of finding the next exceptional beer are low, for me to live in pursuit of it is nothing more than, to paraphrase @Bilsch , "wasting my time drinking meh beer."

THAT is why I prefer to drink things I know I like, as opposed to chasing what, to me, are unicorns. Others may have different goals, interests, and tastes, and that's fine. Good thing, in fact--imagine if we were all the same, how that would end up.

I totally agree..
Went to another "brew fest" this weekend. 14 local breweries sampling their various stuff. There's really nothing new under the sun. Like the mongoose, I like what I like. Some were OK. Some were ridiculously horrible. I came away from this event appreciating my own craft.

 

[Gravitysucks]

The craft beer industry is showing no signs of slowing down here in Maine. I think we're up to about 130 craft breweries now, up from 117 last year. This in a state with only 1.3 million people of which only about 900000 are even old enough to drink.

I used to make a point to try and support the new breweries that opened up but it got to the point that there was just too many and most seemed to be brewing the same basic things, mostly NEIPAs, a farmhouse/saison or two, maybe an American ale or west coast IPA, and a number of "just because you can doesn't mean you should" beers like oyster beer, mussel beer, lobster beer, seaweed beer, clamato beer, etc. I rarely found anything I would pay for a second time but most of the places seem to be doing just fine without my patronage and I think that's great.

The only problem I have with all these new breweries springing up is that the imported British beers that I really like have been losing shelf space to the point I can't find most of them locally anymore. And the few that I can find tend to be ridiculously expensive. But then I did originally start home brewing because British imports were hard to come by 30 years ago so things have kind of come full circle.

 

[Broothru]

In MD we never had the bubble to begin with due to our archaic/insane/corrupt dem party controlled beer laws. Local brewery near me Baltimore County Brewing Company is always packed and its off the path in an industrial park.

Agree with the archaic "beer laws" we used to have in MD, but it wasn't due to political malfeasance of only one party. The distributers in the state owned the House of Delegates for years, and they were equal opportunity corrupters. You need to move west of Montgomery County or east of Annapolis. I can guarantee these parts of the state aren't under the control of Dems!

And speaking of craft brewers, how come nobody has mentioned the pride and joy of Frederick, MD, Flying Dog Brewing?

Brooo Brother

 

[Broothru]

[THREAD_DERAIL] Good luck with that. I gave up golf for two reasons. 1) I sucked at it. 2) There are no decent beers on the roaming beer cart. YMMV.... [/THREAD_DERAIL]

Yeah. All that. Plus a torn rotator cuff trying to force a 4-iron out of a buried lie in knee high grass. (Hey, I saw Tiger do it once). Not to mention it got in the way of Saturday brew sessions. I find that watching wort gently boil while savoring a fine cigar to be much more calming than attempting a 3 foot putt on a breaking green after pushing a side bet for $20. I've only golfed twice in the last three years (used to play 2-3 times per week). OTOH, I've brewed four times in the last six weeks. Golf was anywhere from $35 to over $100 a round, depending on where and when I played. Brewing is $45 or less per session, and lasts for weeks rather than just 18 holes.

Brooo Brother

 

[kh54s10]

I've been trying to explain why I don't constantly try new stuff in hopes (mostly vain) of finding an exceptional beer. The quote above says it all.

Since the odds of finding the next exceptional beer are low, for me to live in pursuit of it is nothing more than, to paraphrase @Bilsch , "wasting my time drinking meh beer."

THAT is why I prefer to drink things I know I like, as opposed to chasing what, to me, are unicorns. Others may have different goals, interests, and tastes, and that's fine. Good thing, in fact--imagine if we were all the same, how that would end up.

It is the same as playing the lottery - If you don't play, you can't win.
If you never try beers because most of them are "meh" beers you will never find one that is exceptional.

I do it more by what I am looking to accomplish. If I want to have something good, I buy something I already know I like. If I am looking for something different, I try one that I haven't had before. I agree most are "meh" but none are bad and occasionally you get a new one to add to the "I know I like" list.

 

[kh54s10]

And speaking of craft brewers, how come nobody has mentioned the pride and joy of Frederick, MD, Flying Dog Brewing?

Brooo Brother

I guess I will have to give them another shot sometime, but a couple years ago I saw their beers appear in my liquor store. I bought 2 different beers. Absolutely the worst craft beers I ever tried..... YMMV.

 

[mongoose33]

It is the same as playing the lottery - If you don't play, you can't win.
If you never try beers because most of them are "meh" beers you will never find one that is exceptional.

It's almost as if you're trying to convince me your way is correct, and mine not.

You can get out of beer what you want, and I'll get out of it what I want. OK?

I do it more by what I am looking to accomplish. If I want to have something good, I buy something I already know I like. If I am looking for something different, I try one that I haven't had before. I agree most are "meh" but none are bad and occasionally you get a new one to add to the "I know I like" list.

I have had a lot of beers that are 'meh' and even some that are bad. I had one at an Asheville brewery a couple years ago that was the worst commercial tap beer I've ever had. Most don't even rise to the "meh" level.

Your way is your way, and if you enjoy it, more power to you. That doesn't make my way wrong.

 

[kh54s10]

It's almost as if you're trying to convince me your way is correct, and mine not.

You can get out of beer what you want, and I'll get out of it what I want. OK?



I have had a lot of beers that are 'meh' and even some that are bad. I had one at an Asheville brewery a couple years ago that was the worst commercial tap beer I've ever had. Most don't even rise to the "meh" level.

Your way is your way, and if you enjoy it, more power to you. That doesn't make my way wrong.

Convincing you of anything was not my intention. Only to point out that if you never try new beers you will never know if there is that really great beer among them.

Replied to another thread recently about Flying Dog Brewery. While drinkable I found the 2 of their beers that I tried, probably the worst 2 craft brews that I ever bought. I would give them another shot - maybe.

 

[LostHopper]

I have had a lot of beers that are 'meh' and even some that are bad. I had one at an Asheville brewery a couple years ago that was the worst commercial tap beer I've ever had. Most don't even rise to the "meh" level.

.

Pardon the interruption but I have had beer on tap that was awful and I'm positive it was due to poorly maintained lines at a restaurant or bar. Never at the brewery.
While I don't try many new beers/breweries I always get a can or bottle, or try a sample at their tap room if possible. Better chance of it being the beer that the brewery intended.

 

[LostHopper]

Correction: I see that mongoose was AT the brewery in Asheville. ouch

 

[bleme]

We have several 'craft' restaurants in the area and if we eat at one, I will usually grab something I haven't tried yet. If I've had everything on their taps, I will just get water. It's just not worth $6 to me. I'd rather pay $16/12-pack for the ones I know I like. I've found 2 restaurant's with pour-your-own taps, which are great because you can get as much or as little as you want and just pay by the ounce.

However, my favorite way to try beers are the beerfests. For a donated keg of something that cost me $15-$25 to make, I get 2 entries and I can try all the beers I want. When I get the 559 beer that tastes like they carbonated their CIP water, I don't feel any guilt at all dumping it and getting something better.

 

[Gameface]

Regarding the context and setting being important (the "great moments"), I generally agree with you. The right context can make poor beer better or good beer great. Or good beer bad.

Regarding the rest though...

You're either living in an unusually strong beer area, not exposed to enough, are really easy to please, or have low standards.

No offense. You're entitled to your opinion and to like whatever you like. But your opinion in this is very much a minority.

Because one thing that's almost universally agreed upon (regardless of one's position on the "bubble") is that there's a lot of substandard craft beer out there.

To the point that the Brewers Association had a committee/campaign/something I don't recall set up specifically to help combat the rampant quality problem by providing resources to BA members to up their quality game.

I drink a lot of "meh" beer, but to me that doesn't mean it's bad beer.

I guess where I'm making the comparison is that I also drink beer that is said to be great and I'm like, eh, yeah it's good, just like a lot of other beer. I can't say I've had much beer that I would say is so much better than good beer that I'd call it great. I also drink a lot of beer that is supposed to be good to really good and taste things that I would be very disappointed to taste in my own beer, yet the critics tell me it's really good beer. So I have a hard time when I drink a beer that isn't so much worse than "great" beer that I'd call it bad and have people saying that there is so much bad beer out there.

I'm confusing myself at this point, but all I'm saying is the separation between what people are telling me is great beer compared to what they're telling me is bad beer is small enough for me to say most beer I drink is good, none of it is great and some of it is bad.

 

[Imhoppy]

30 cent homebrew (pretty dam good too) vs $5+ for Craft! Not much competition. I'm part of the older crew and don't go to bars too often. Usually it is when travelling with the Company Credit Card, or a couple of drinks with meals, or after golf or a movie. Gone are the days when I'd spend an evening in the bar ........ how did I ever afford it when I was younger!

I may be wrong, but I really think there are too many craft breweries, and many of them are going to fail. The big boys are going to come in with cheaper versions, and unless you have something other than the beer to keep people coming in thru your doors, you are not going to survive because you will get the BudMiloor 'Craft' beers at all the 'regular' places.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out over time. I hope these entrepreneurs survive .... at least the ones who are producing good beer.

Another perspective on craft beer cost. At $40 for a 5-gallon home-brew kit, it would cost $1.00 USD per pint. At $5/pint at your local brew pub, instead you could afford a $200 kit and make your own for the same cost per pint. On the extreme end, at $12/pint, that would be a $480 home-brew kit. I'll sell these for 50% off and you could save BIG MONEY!!

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Another perspective on craft beer cost. At $40 for a 5-gallon home-brew kit, it would cost $1.00 USD per pint. At $5/pint at your local brew pub, instead you could afford a $200 kit and make your own for the same cost per pint. On the extreme end, at $12/pint, that would be a $480 home-brew kit. I'll sell these for 50% off and you could save BIG MONEY!!

Why not just do both? Before I brewed my beer purchases would consist of some fairly expensive stuff from the local bottle shop from smaller hard to get breweries, and some main stream less expensive but still good beer from the grocery store(Bells 2 Hearted, Dogfishhead 60 minutes, etc) to keep the total beer cost down somewhat. Now my homebrew is basically the less expensive good beer to keep cost down but I still enjoy occasionally going to my awesome local bottle shop or a brewery to check out what's out there. Call it research...